Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: otit on January 22, 2021, 08:19:26 PM
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Is it about time the ECB and Morgan got off their high horse and selected the best English T20 batsman around?
Surely I can't be the only one that thinks this needs to happen.
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Absolutely. His performances have been outstanding in franchise cricket and he's been punished enough.
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He's an idiot.
But...he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't cheat, he didn't underperform for any reason.
He broke the trust held Sacred in the changing room and the timing just before the World Cup was awful.
So we are in KP territory where the Captain and team mates feel he let them down, and the breakdown of trust phrase again was brought out, same as KP.
I pretty much think you serve your time if you do the crime and then you're back, everyone makes mistakes.
If it had been match fixing, that's unforgivable so you forfeit the right to represent England.
Morgan is all powerful at the ECB I can't think of a captain in recent memory who is so respected and calls the shots.
The best thing Morgan can do is show what a good leader he is and open the door for Hales.
I'm not sure he gets in the T20 team but he should be available and in the squad.
Did the crime, did the time.....missed a World Cup spot potentially. Time to wipe the slate yes I agree.
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If Steve Smith and David Warner can be forgive, then so should Hales. His crimes against cricket are far less.
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I agree he seems like a bit of a muppet, with what's happened. But he sure does know how to play cricket with the white ball. One of the first names on the team sheet for me.
It would be a shame for politics to get in the way.
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If Steve Smith and David Warner can be forgive, then so should Hales. His crimes against cricket are far less.
Never a truer word spoken!
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I would sooner Morgan remains captain than Hales back in the team!
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I would sooner Morgan remains captain than Hales back in the team!
I don't think....it's that sort of situation, at least nothing I've read says it is.
So we wouldn't be back in KP v Moores(he goes or I go)....ok your both sacked :)
Unless you know something we don't.
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I’ve played in the Notts Prem with a few of hales friends.
I’ve got some pretty suspect pictures on my camera roll from hales Snapchat, let’s just say it likes to snow in Nottingham! Especially when your wearing your England playing gear and got a few girls in you room!
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I’ve played in the Notts Prem with a few of hales friends.
I’ve got some pretty suspect pictures on my camera roll from hales Snapchat, let’s just say it likes to snow in Nottingham! Especially when your wearing your England playing gear and got a few girls in you room!
Sounds pretty standard
The guy served a ban, leave him alone. If he’s performing bring him in
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True true seeing worse from both cricketers and footballers, however girls snorting cocaine in your england ODI shirt and England helmet maybe not the best look :o
for me though long as hes the best option for the team get him back in, no agendas from me we all have lives outside work. Long as England have the strongest team available that all that matters
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Morgan does not want him around.
Morgan is the most powerful man involved in English cricket right now.
Hales won't play again.
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I don't think....it's that sort of situation, at least nothing I've read says it is.
So we wouldn't be back in KP v Moores(he goes or I go)....ok your both sacked :)
Unless you know something we don't.
I didn’t say it was mate. But for me, Morgan as captain is more important to the team than Hales playing.
Also... You only have to Google what Morgan has said on the matter.
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Morgan is the most powerful man involved in English cricket right now.
And rightly so. Considering where the limited overs teams were when he took over and where he has taken them I say give him the keys to the castle.
This sort of no-nonsense approach should have been used with KP back in that time. No one is bigger than the team
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Morgan is basing his decision on Hales nearly costing them a world Cup. But if he keeps the form going over the next few years (a big if I know) surely Morgan not selecting him, could potentially cost a world Cup or two.
Cutting your nose off, to spite your face.
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And rightly so. Considering where the limited overs teams were when he took over and where he has taken them I say give him the keys to the castle.
This sort of no-nonsense approach should have been used with KP back in that time. No one is bigger than the team
You are right no one is bigger than the team, including Morgan. If there is a feeling in the team that the majority of players would welcome him back; as mentioned by Chris Woakes, then give him a chance.
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Morgan is basing his decision on Hales nearly costing them a world Cup. But if he keeps the form going over the next few years (a big if I know) surely Morgan not selecting him, could potentially cost a world Cup or two.
Cutting your nose off, to spite your face.
Lets not forget its not the first time he was involved in drug use. Just the most high profile. Fairly certain he failed a Test at Notts and it was hushed away
He was also involved in the Clifton Triangle affair with Stokes and somehow evaded serious punishment for that. Kicking a man on the floor is normally punishable in court
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/cricket/47780585 (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/cricket/47780585)
So plenty of chances and I dont blame Morgan atall for closing the door.
Englnds white ball batting cupboard is very well stocked so its not as if we are bringing in Donkeys.
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I didn’t say it was mate. But for me, Morgan as captain is more important to the team than Hales playing.
Also... You only have to Google what Morgan has said on the matter.
I agree mate, the environment created by Morgan is up there to be admired, team ethos, respecting different cultures and faiths, total respect for your team mates.
And he is rightly sitting in a very powerful position to call the shots.
The question of how you handle someone who has broken that ethos is interesting in a team sport.
I see it as a similar situation to KP, ultimately I thought the team should move on without Pieterson, but totally understand the opposite viewpoint.
Hales was the reserve in the WC squad as we were so strong, had he been an essential player(stokes,butler) I wonder if it would of been the same.
I'm not defending Hales, I think he's an idiot
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If you look at how Hales and Stokes reacted Post-bristol I think that tells you all you need to know about their respective characters
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If you look at how Hales and Stokes reacted Post-bristol I think that tells you all you need to know about their respective characters
Hales got away with it somehow iagree with you. He should of been in court with Stokes.
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Whether you agree with the exile or not, he will NOT play for England again under Morgan, so it’s pointless bringing up the subject again. It gets brought up every time he has a decent knock in a t20 league game, still hasn’t changed anything.
Looking at risk and reward. Is it worth the attention and drama calling him back when we are ranked 1 in the world in both white ball formats? We are obviously doing well without him.
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That is very true, why even take the risk. The best team is rarely the best 11 players.
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Counterpoint though, if Hales is absolutely demolishing top class attacks all round the world then does it not create just as much attention and drama? It's already all over the news every time he gets a score, only going to get worse the closer it gets to the T20 world cup.
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Deserves selection, assuming he's dealt with his problems. Would be pretty unjust if he never played for England again, particularly as his mistakes were nothing to do with the game. If it had been booze rather than drugs he'd probably never even have been dropped! Big shame as it seems he's actually even getting better.
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Deserves selection, assuming he's dealt with his problems. Would be pretty unjust if he never played for England again, particularly as his mistakes were nothing to do with the game. If it had been booze rather than drugs he'd probably never even have been dropped! Big shame as it seems he's actually even getting better.
Out of interest and of course purely hypothetical as none of us are any more than club selectors...
Would you of had KP back in the team after Headingley bust up and held the view you are pro cricketers this is a job and find a way to make it work?
In other words, we have all worked with people we don't like, downright rude,aggressive etc but it's your job so get on with it?
And did it mater KP was at the fag end of his career rather than in his prime?
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He’s in some form at the moment! But Morgan doesn’t trust him - won’t happen
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Out of interest and of course purely hypothetical as none of us are any more than club selectors...
Would you of had KP back in the team after Headingley bust up and held the view you are pro cricketers this is a job and find a way to make it work?
In other words, we have all worked with people we don't like, downright rude,aggressive etc but it's your job so get on with it?
And did it mater KP was at the fag end of his career rather than in his prime?
Yes, I would have had him back in. It was weak leadership from Cook in my view.
I don't think it's healthy when a dressing room clique can influence secretion of an international team. The best sides and the best captains find a way of working with different or more challenging personalities
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Yes, I would have had him back in. It was weak leadership from Cook in my view.
I don't think it's healthy when a dressing room clique can influence secretion of an international team. The best sides and the best captains find a way of working with different or more challenging personalities
Totally understand that point of view, you would not be alone.
Team spirit, ethos is hard to get and easy to lose with a disruptive player, there is also a view it's the managements job to manage and if there is no way forward that's a failure of management, thou I personally was on the other side of the argument.
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Do we know exactly what happened?
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Do we know exactly what happened?
He failed multiple drug tests and got dropped from the squad for breaching their trust in him. He hasn't been picked since. Not too much to it is there?
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Do we know exactly what happened?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/26/englands-alex-hales-banned-for-21-days-for-recreational-drug-use (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/26/englands-alex-hales-banned-for-21-days-for-recreational-drug-use)
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It all shows he’s obviously not a totally clever professional because he’s put himself in a position that has led to him failing a test twice. If he was just a county player I suspect he would’ve failed a 3rd test.
Jack Burnham for Durham had time out with a ‘foot injury’ then later missed a full season due to his failed test. Since transpired that ‘foot injury’ was actually him failing the test for the second time, Durham were made aware at this point and chose to not disclose it to the public, instead offering some sort of counselling and rehabilitation for Burnham. I suspect that in this sense Hales has been almost unlucky if you can call it that that he wasn’t just a county player so his absence was bigger and the news was more likely to break. He also might’ve had the more arm round the shoulder counselling approach if he was a county player.
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It all shows he’s obviously not a totally clever professional because he’s put himself in a position that has led to him failing a test twice. If he was just a county player I suspect he would’ve failed a 3rd test.
Jack Burnham for Durham had time out with a ‘foot injury’ then later missed a full season due to his failed test. Since transpired that ‘foot injury’ was actually him failing the test for the second time, Durham were made aware at this point and chose to not disclose it to the public, instead offering some sort of counselling and rehabilitation for Burnham. I suspect that in this sense Hales has been almost unlucky if you can call it that that he wasn’t just a county player so his absence was bigger and the news was more likely to break. He also might’ve had the more arm round the shoulder counselling approach if he was a county player.
Totally agree with this, not excusing Hales by any means but your dead right.
I read about Burnham, he's is highly rated and had two or three chance kept low key and with support.
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I think the ECB's approach on the second failed test was a bit unfortunate. Yes, Hales put himself in a daft position but he wouldn't be the first high profile sportsman to struggle with substance abuse. Not sure ostracising him is the most supportive way to approach his problem with using drugs or the best option for the prospects of the England T20 side.
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He failed multiple drug tests and got dropped from the squad for breaching their trust in him. He hasn't been picked since. Not too much to it is there?
I thought it was one of the wags that had had enough of his bad-boy behavior because he was cheating on his finacee'.
I can understand if it was drug use but being dropped for cheating on his finacee' is just silly. :D
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He failed multiple drug tests and got dropped from the squad for breaching their trust in him. He hasn't been picked since. Not too much to it is there?
I knew there had been recreational drug use, obviously. I didn't know it was repeated. The fact that broken trust is so frequently spoken of suggests there had been warnings?
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Even if drugs is the reason for it, he's been out of the England team longer than Smith and Warner were banned for actual, premeditated cheating. Daft.
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Even if drugs is the reason for it, he's been out of the England team longer than Smith and Warner were banned for actual, premeditated cheating. Daft.
Not if the captain feels he can't trust him?
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He gets in the team on ability everyday of the week
Seems a shame if he’s not in the team because his face doesn’t fit.
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I dont think its correct to categorise continual breaking of the law as his face not fitting.
Any international sportsperson would be punished severely if they broke the law 3 times.
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I dont think its correct to categorise continual breaking of the law as his face not fitting.
Any international sportsperson would be punished severely if they broke the law 3 times.
As far as I am aware he’s not been in trouble with the law.
Stokes was charged with affray after THAT incident and his others issues have all been dealt with by the cricket authorities.
He is currently fully available for selection for cricket at all levels.
If he was in prison or serving a ban from sport you would indeed be correct.
Why do you think he’s not being picked?
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As far as I am aware he’s not been in trouble with the law.
Stokes was charged with affray after THAT incident and his others issues have all been dealt with by the cricket authorities.
He is currently fully available for selection for cricket at all levels.
If he was in prison or serving a ban from sport you would indeed be correct.
Why do you think he’s not being picked?
Because he let down the captain who hd previously backed him through a similar incident.
I dont think he can expect any different from Morgan. This is International sport not Totteridge under 11s
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IMO the "trust" thing is nonsense. He did a few lines, he's not Pablo Escobar. It's been a couple of years now and he's not been caught taking drugs again. Let it be and get him back in the white ball squads. Know who I'd rather have of him or Vince.
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IMO the "trust" thing is nonsense. He did a few lines, he's not Pablo Escobar. It's been a couple of years now and he's not been caught taking drugs again. Let it be and get him back in the white ball squads. Know who I'd rather have of him or Vince.
ECB are obviously going to throw the book at anyone found doing any sort of drug. The class and amount is irrelevant.
As soon as hes banned he throws Morgans plans into disarray. He would probably have been in the 11 for some of the WC matches and certainly in the squad.
Morgan is hesitant to make more plans involving a guy who has a proven history of f**king things up and becoming unavailable. Thats where the trust comes into it.
I completely understand Morgans stance.
Hales will get another go when Morgan packs it in, probably after the 2nd T20 WC. Until then hes a T20 francise player
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ECB are obviously going to throw the book at anyone found doing any sort of drug. The class and amount is irrelevant.
As soon as hes banned he throws Morgans plans into disarray. He would probably have been in the 11 for some of the WC matches and certainly in the squad.
Morgan is hesitant to make more plans involving a guy who has a proven history of f**king things up and becoming unavailable. Thats where the trust comes into it.
I completely understand Morgans stance.
Hales will get another go when Morgan packs it in, probably after the 2nd T20 WC. Until then hes a T20 francise player
But not at someone who gets pissed and gets in a fight outside a bar? Think there's a double standard at play really.
As someone said earlier, England are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Hales is clearly worth his place in the T20 squad, he's had two years to think about his cock up, he missed out on a world cup winners medal and he's been hammering the door down with the runs he's scored in quality franchise cricket.
Morgan obviously has the full backing of the hierarchy, deservedly so, but cannot fathom the absolute exclusion of Hales based on a few daft decisions made two years ago.
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ECB are obviously going to throw the book at anyone found doing any sort of drug. The class and amount is irrelevant.
As soon as hes banned he throws Morgans plans into disarray. He would probably have been in the 11 for some of the WC matches and certainly in the squad.
Morgan is hesitant to make more plans involving a guy who has a proven history of f**king things up and becoming unavailable. Thats where the trust comes into it.
I completely understand Morgans stance.
Hales will get another go when Morgan packs it in, probably after the 2nd T20 WC. Until then hes a T20 francise player
We agree completely he’s not being picked because his FACE does not FIT in to the core leadership teams plans.
I think we are in violent agreement - I just don’t think it’s the right way to treat someone
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But not at someone who gets pissed and gets in a fight outside a bar? Think there's a double standard at play really.
As someone said earlier, England are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Hales is clearly worth his place in the T20 squad, he's had two years to think about his cock up, he missed out on a world cup winners medal and he's been hammering the door down with the runs he's scored in quality franchise cricket.
Morgan obviously has the full backing of the hierarchy, deservedly so, but cannot fathom the absolute exclusion of Hales based on a few daft decisions made two years ago.
Well Stokes was banned by the ECB. The difference in how they've been treated thereafter may lie in the characters of the respective captains at the time.
Plus - i think its fair to say that Stokes has seriously bucked his ideas up since that point. If he had committed 3 similar offences in a short space of time maybe he would have been treated more harshly aswell.
I dont doubt for one moment that Hales would be a great asset to the batting line up. But in this case I understand why Morgan wont give him the time of day. If you are building a team you dont want to involve someone who might be banned when it comes to crunch time
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We agree completely he’s not being picked because his FACE does not FIT in to the core leadership teams plans.
I think we are in violent agreement - I just don’t think it’s the right way to treat someone
I dont agree with that whatsover. He is not picked because he was a fool and let people down.
When I think of someones face not fitting it implies that they have done nothing wrong. Clearly not right in this case
And no idea what a violent agreement is :D
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I dont agree with that whatsover. He is not picked because he was a fool and let people down.
When I think of someones face not fitting it implies that they have done nothing wrong. Clearly not right in this case
And no idea what a violent agreement is :D
We are violently agreeing on the same point from opposite directions & getting hung up on semantics.
The skipper has decided for non cricketing ability reasons not to pick a player.
I do not think it’s fair from my perspective. You do from yours.
It’s about opinions and mostly importantly England agree with you.
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Because he let down the captain who hd previously backed him through a similar incident.
I dont think he can expect any different from Morgan. This is International sport not Totteridge under 11s
Stokes knocked a bloke out on a night out but he's considered a hero
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Because he let down the captain who hd previously backed him through a similar incident.
This didn't happen though - pretty sure the ECB positive drug test procedure isn't 'quick, ring Morgs and see what he thinks'. Everyone, Morgan included, only found out because someone leaked it. In theory it's supposed to be kept confidential, like with the Durham lad and his 'foot injury'.
Bizarre that he's been left out permanently over it if you ask me, but then I'm not a selector. Do suspect that if we didn't have a glut of T20 openers he'd have been back in by now.
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This didn't happen though - pretty sure the ECB positive drug test procedure isn't 'quick, ring Morgs and see what he thinks'. Everyone, Morgan included, only found out because someone leaked it. In theory it's supposed to be kept confidential, like with the Durham lad and his 'foot injury'.
Bizarre that he's been left out permanently over it if you ask me, but then I'm not a selector. Do suspect that if we didn't have a glut of T20 openers he'd have been back in by now.
Definitely not but as captain he obviously has a large say. As World Cup winning captain I trust his opinion more than Giles, Silverwood or anyone else employed by the ECB for that matter.
I think its also worth noting that the decision was endorsed at the time by other 'senior players' - I would guess Root and Buttler. And that Morgan has been backed in the press over the decision by Vaughan, Strauss and most recently Atherton. Not that Michael Vaughans opinions are always backed by logic. I havent read anyone of note calling for his recall
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I think one of the questions to consider, as mentioned earlier in the thread, is whether Hales is bright enough to learn from his mistake, and not get in the same trouble again in the future?
Judging by his alleged social media pics, I do wonder...............
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Some news today on this which predicted a while back that Hales will start a process of re integration with the team and plans to be invited to train with them.
However...Morgan pretty much flat batted any return when asked yesterday and didn't seem to offer any olive branches out.
I can't help thinking Ashley Giles having gone thru the KP saga and been firmly on his side, will have his views influenced by the Pieterson situation.
For good or bad he may use his own experience as a player to ultimately push the issue. Morgan has shown an iron will and clear thinking as well thou.
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After the Bristol affair there was clearly agreement across the side to avoid trouble at any and all costs
Hales put the England WC2019 campaign at risk. That’s the trust line he broke.
Hales has gone round the world shown he’s clearly world class - In India he’ll be against spin - left arm in particular - Hales has solved that element of the game. So he’s one of the best 6 options to bat in the top 3 imho
I disagree with the comparisons with KP. KP was a different beast in both ability and misdemeanour. Hales is daft.
Hales appears to have made personal life choice that align to a quieter life and hopefully that helps him
I’d like to see him given the opportunity. Morgan has a ruthless streak so Hales will know what is expected of him should he get his chance again.
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Morgan has a ruthless streak so Hales will know what is expected of him should he get his chance again.
He is a great captain and I admire him a great deal!
Hales has "done his time" and it is time to let him shine at the world stage.
I still miss watching KP - his departure was a loss for cricket fans. A damn shame really.
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Swap out Roy for Hales and I’d be very happy.
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I can see the comparisons between KP & Hales.
Although completely different circumstances to why they have been/were left out, it does make you feel as a fan that we are potentially going to miss out on some great cricketing moments without letting Hales have another go.
Imagine if Stokes had been axed after Bristol?
On a different note- Has anyone seen KP in the legends series?! Still got it!
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At this time, there is no need to upset the apple cart. By all means bring him back into the training camp, but not into games.
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If I was playing a T20 world Cup final tomorrow in India, my side would look far stronger with Hales in the top 3 instead of Malan. The progression of the white ball team has been based kn never standing still even if it can appear ruthless at times in the way people like Wiley and Plunket were dropped.
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Do England need him is the question? I'd say not. I think there'd be more value in Ali coming in for Malan, with Bairstow at 3, Stokes 4. Morgan 5 and Ali 6. Gives an extra spinner then.
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If Hales mentality is right and Morgan wants him in and around he would be in before any of our top order for me.
You always need arguably your best T20 batsman.
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If Hales mentality is right and Morgan wants him in and around he would be in before any of our top order for me.
You always need arguably your best T20 batsman.
Before any? Big shout that. He's very good but not sure he's above Butler, Bairstow, Morgan (maybe even Stokes) in white ball as a batsmen and also what they bring to the side.
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Buttler in T20s, no. Bairstow it's a close run thing, Morgan plays a different role to Hales so not a like for like swap and Stokes (as a pure T20 batsman) I don't think has shown he is the match of Hales at international level.
There's an argument that Stokes is wasted at 6 which is not without merit. Not sure it's the most sensible selection but I would love to see them experiment with Buttler, Stokes, Hales and Bairstow as the top 4. That said, I've still got a lot of time for Roy and Malan hasn't done a lot wrong either.
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He would be in my squad he showed around the world he good however if he not to be managed and doesnt have the trust then it isn't going to happen.
Batting alone in T20 he up there and i suspect on batting alone he get into most top 3 in world T20 cricket.
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I'd agree, subjective but think Hales is a better t20 player than anyone in the England side bar Buttler.
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I'd agree, subjective but think Hales is a better t20 player than anyone in the England side bar Buttler.
He’d walk into my side every time as an opener.
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Timing may again be an issue if Hales is to be invited to train and then possibly available for selection.
Same situation as the 50 over WC, 2020 is in Oct/Nov....
You would think Morgan will want his batsmen and the order settled well in advance of the tournament.
I'm not sure I would pick Hales over Roy myself, even thou Roy can be hit and miss-they would want to give him every chance I guess