Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: cobweb1510 on December 09, 2022, 10:10:34 PM
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Hi all,
Apologies for being slightly circumspect with some details here. This is to protect the business that I have a good long term relationship with, and I might be fretting about nothing. They also haven't had any opportunity to redress the issue if it actually is one. This might turn out to be longer than necessary as I want to be clear with all info.
My 13 year old son is growing fast. He is 5'8" tall, and shooting up. I decided Christmas was a good opportunity to buy him his first SH adult sized bat (plus other kit). I know he's still a touch small (5'9" is recommended by the various charts), but he'll have hit that before the start of the season by the looks of it!
Ollie has a middling bat with a handle he loves the feel of, but I didn't really know how to describe, so we decided a trip to the workshop to speak with the bat-maker was the best idea. Besides, we both like a visit.
When we got there we showed him the handle and got that sorted; and Ollie was told to try a few of the bats that were in stock to see which felt the way he wanted. Oliver was swinging one around and said he really liked the feel of it, but did he have one that was a bit heavier? The (very dour) bat-maker looked at him, and said that one's 2-12, I think it's more than heavy enough! (This story was funny at the time and is relevant!). There was no information about the weights of the bats whilst Ollie was trying them, so I don't think he was trying to buy the "macho" biggest bat- it was his his genuine feel from the bat.
We ultimately agreed on a bat balanced like the one he's tried, and somewhere around 2-11. Given the bat makers response to Ollie earlier, I didn't think he would go over, but might go lighter. I did confirm all the details in writing.
Because I don't play, I didn't pick up the bat at any point- there was no need. Also Oliver seemed to have learnt enough about his game to recognise what felt good to him and was confident enough to discuss it clearly.
The bat turned up a couple of days ago, and (as they always are) it's a thing of beauty. I did think it felt very chunky- but it's an adults bat. No problem. But it niggled. And niggled. So today I put it on the kitchen scales and it weighed 2-13 3/8
I'm assuming the scales are accurate.
This seems to be really heavy- especially for a 13 year old- albeit a pretty big strong one who will keep growing.
The final relevant piece of information is back to the handle- Ollie wanted it much thicker than normal- oval at the bottom and round at the top. This will have added some weight compared to the makers "standard" handle pattern.
I haven't spoken to either Oliver or the bat-maker- since I don't know if there's a problem here at all, and I would prefer Ollie not to see his Christmas present early.
I should also say I have absolutely no reason to think the bat maker won't give me exceptional post sale service, I just want to make sure if I do ask for something then it's fair and reasonable to us both.
So my questions:
1)
a) Is the bat too heavy for him- given his in shop comments and observations? (This might have to come down to feel on Christmas day)
b) The bat will have to last a number of years, so if it is marginally heavy it's probably fine for him to grow into- right?
2)
a) Is a bat that's 2oz over a discussed weight acceptable?
b) If the extra weight is due to the heavier handle I requested, does this change the last answer?
3)
a) If the bat is both too heavy, and it's unacceptable to be that weight, can 2oz be removed from a bat? (I've seen weight reduction services by some people)
b) If so, should I expect the bat maker to do it for free?
c) If not, should I ask for a replacement bat?
Apologies for what feels like a lot of questions- but one sort of leads on to others!
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Did you agree on a naked weight or fully dressed? That would account for a 2oz difference when you add grip, stickers, scuff, etc.
2oz is a fair bit to remove but for a skilled batmaker that is certainly not an impossibility. If your lad liked a 2'12 bat though you could have it reduced an ounce and maintain the shape and balance.
I'd recommend a polite chat with your batmaker, particularly if you're a repeat customer then I don't think it's unreasonable to request an adjustment for no additional cost.
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Even the original weight requested seems crazy for a 13 year old to be able to control over any length of time. How much does the middling bat weigh?
And if you agreed 2.11 as finished dressed weight and it came in 2.5oz over then no that is not acceptable in my opinion and I'd probably be asking for a full refund. Thats quite a way out. Whats the point of a custom if you dont get what you asked for?
I dont necessarily think your point about growing into a bat is a great idea either. I appreciate that financially it would be better to not have to buy new bats regularly for a growing child but if he is late on the pull shot and cant control his downswing for 2 years until he gets stronger its not going to do his game much good.
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Why do I have a feeling about the bat maker!
2.13 is far to heavy for a 13 year old in my opinion especially his first SH ( I’m assuming he is currently using a Harrow or high will be 2lb 4oz to 2lb 6oz normally) here.
2.5 is a lot of wood to remove and even then 2.11 is a lot of dead weight for a 13 year now matter how tall the muscle won’t be there to play vertical shots in my view
Speak to the bat maker and at best get a new bat as requested originally or a weight reduction but at that amount of weight to remove there will be changes to specs such as edge and spine height
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2lb 13oz would be regarded as too heavy by most adults!
In a first adult SH bat, you really don't want a kid to be using more than 2lb 8/9oz tops. They need a very light bat. I'm not really sure if that helps, but I'd recommend just getting him a new bat and saving or returning the new handmade one if possible.
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Mate, Id say have a chat with the bat maker and see how it goes. Personally Id say 2-13 is way too heavy for a 13 year old, it could even cause an injury with wrist or shoulder wielding something like that.
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Playing devil's advocate, maybe he sent the wrong bat out by mistake and some blokes just recieved a 2lbs 10oz bat with a thick oval handle! 😆
Seriously tho, this isn't acceptable imo. I wouldn't send a bat out that much heavier at all. I would only send one marginally heavier than requested if i thought it felt good and was discussed with there customer first. This would be on the proviso that I'd remove weight FOC if required.
I wouldn't suggest he'd 'grow into it' and would speak to the batmaker to resolve it. If it was me, I'd take it back top reduce the weight, but more likely make another.
On a positive note, the bats ate obviously balanced nicely if he thought the 2lbs 11oz bat picked up nicely. I do subscribe to some extent the idea of feel over scale weight, but not so much with juniors.
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Definitely should go back to the batmaker and ask for something else. I agree with billyb, 2.9 is more suitable of a weight but if your lad likes the feel of a 2.11 then that is fair enough. It's quite easy to play a few shots in practice but how will it feel with the full kit on and being out in the middle for over an hour? 2.11 is pushing it and 2.13 most definitely will not work.
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Your not alone this problem comes up time and again, as a 13 year old I wanted the bat Viv used which was too heavy. The sports shop told me and my mum and in the end you guessed it I could hardly use it, it’s was too heavy.
2 13 for a 13 year old is way too heavy, it might be alright walking out to bat but as others have said after an hour it’s too cumbersome.
Bite the billet and return it for another or buy a new one.
A bat too heavy will restrict his progress.
As others have said around 2lb 9 is ideal, another grip and tape could be added if he wants it a touch heavier.
You will be doing him a big favour.
Some batmakers, perhaps this one in particular, needs to think of young players development with regards to equipment.
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At a similar age, I thought I was Gooch and got a ss turbo. Great bat, brilliant ping but far too heavy. Felt fine for about five overs but then was too cumbersome. Really suffered in adult cricket where my timing was out. Swapped to a much lighter GN and was hitting everything cleanly from the off. The perils of a few swings in a shop rather than a cold spring weekend or an, increasingly, warm July afternoon.
As others have said, probably worth talking to the bat maker to see what can be done. Good luck!
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Sounds like an Aldred special. Someone really should start a crowd funding page to buy him a working pair of scales.
I would concur with the consensus that the bat is far too heavy for a 13 year old and is going to be detrimental to his batting to use something that a lot of adults would consider too heavy
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Sounds like an Aldred special. Someone really should start a crowd funding page to buy him a working pair of scales.
I would concur with the consensus that the bat is far too heavy for a 13 year old and is going to be detrimental to his batting to use something that a lot of adults would consider too heavy
Don’t want to derail this into an Alfred thread but it’s almost like he refuses to make anything under 2’12.
I’m sure if you liaise with the bat maker they will sort it for you. If the bat maker knew the bat was being made for a 14 year old lad then I’m a tad shocked.
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Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply.
I've had a couple of DMs asking about the bat maker. I'm not going to "Name and shame" simply because I don't think it's fair- especially at this point. I haven't spoken with him about it, so he has had no chance to respond. As Johnny pointed out- it could be something as simple as the wrong bat being posted! Also I am comfortable with people making a mistake if it is rectified. However, looking at the posts whilst I was writing this, I will say it's NOT Aldred!
I'm going to have a chat with him and see what his response is.
To the comments re. naked/dressed weight- I wasn't that specific in my language; however the 2-12 Oliver was trying was finished so I think we were all clear on what we were discussing.
I've been reading people's comments re. a more suitable weight with interest. So I decided to stick his current Harrow on the scales. Again I am assuming the scales are accurate, but the Harrow (used for a year) is 2'8 1/4". It sounds like he's been using heavy bats all along- despite me making an effort to always ensure he was using the right size at every step (although for some reason I clearly remember his batting coach commenting on the light weight of Ollie's bat last year).
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Depends where the weight is, if it's a big thick grip, chunky handle and plenty of volume in the top of the bat it would pick up like a kids toy.
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Doubt a kids toy is a fair comparison
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Doubt a kids toy is a fair comparison
Please tell me this is a joke and you've not somehow put a negative spin on the use of a figure of speech to describe a very light pickup...
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Probable final update on this, unless things unexpectedly take a massive turn for the worse- or the thread spins off into it's own direction as can happen!
Contacted the bat maker today by message since he was closed- didn't expect a reply before Monday, but he got straight back to me.
Apparently the 2-12 wasn't finished, so that- with the handle- might well account for the difference in expectations. I'm sure Ollie wasn't factoring in the additional weight of "dressing", whereas the bat maker probably was.
I think we have to be slightly careful with the age thing- whilst Ollie is 13, he's almost foot taller than some he plays with (we lent a friend's boy a size 4 bat last year and he's a year older!). He's also played football against lads that dwarf him! Having said that, 2-13 appears to be heavy even for an adult bat, and I would think it is fair to at least question whether a bat that heavy is suitable. Maybe he could have been more insistent, but I guess if you think that's what's been asked for, then you ultimately have to make what your told (even when the customer is 13!)
Anyway. that's all by the by. He's happy to take some weight out and bring it down to 2-11, no problem.
I've said I'll keep it till after Christmas so it can be opened on the 25th, then we'll send it back for it's post Christmas diet.
Thanks everyone for the input. I wasn't entirely sure what was reasonable to expect with regard to the weight in the first place, or the capacity for a solution. I've always had a really positive relationship with this chap, and didn't want to spoil it by asking for something unreasonable.
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Probable final update on this, unless things unexpectedly take a massive turn for the worse- or the thread spins off into it's own direction as can happen!
I think we have to be slightly careful with the age thing- whilst Ollie is 13, he's almost foot taller than some he plays with (we lent a friend's boy a size 4 bat last year and he's a year older!). He's also played football against lads that dwarf him! Having said that, 2-13 appears to be heavy even for an adult bat, and I would think it is fair to at least question whether a bat that heavy is suitable. Maybe he could have been more insistent, but I guess if you think that's what's been asked for, then you ultimately have to make what your told (even when the customer is 13!)
Anyway. that's all by the by. He's happy to take some weight out and bring it down to 2-11, no problem.
I've said I'll keep it till after Christmas so it can be opened on the 25th, then we'll send it back for it's post Christmas diet.
Thanks everyone for the input. I wasn't entirely sure what was reasonable to expect with regard to the weight in the first place, or the capacity for a solution. I've always had a really positive relationship with this chap, and didn't want to spoil it by asking for something unreasonable.
I think you should also consider that height has absolutely zero correlation with strength or power. So whilst the SH size may be the correct length bat for a tall 13 year old it is unlikely that a bat above 2.9 is the correct weight for match use.
Sounds like the maker has explained the confusion and will put things right so hats off to them and alls well that ends well.
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Good on the bat maker to sort things out. Glad it ended well.
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If it was me that’s a lot of weight to take out and chnages the shape completely
Your son may not care however although as long as you’re happy that’s all that matters
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2oz isn't a huge amount of weight to take out. Its not ideal, but if the bats big in volume you can lose that in concaving/dropping the edge slightly and the shape wouldn't really change at all.
Not sure what you mean @cobweb1510 by saying he said the bat at 2lbs 12oz wasn't finished? It was still 2lbs 12oz and assume it was bound and gripped, so regardless he was swinging a 2lbs 12oz around. Only things to add wild be a scuff and stickers potentially, which wouldn't add even an Oz
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2oz isn't a huge amount of weight to take out. Its not ideal, but if the bats big in volume you can lose that in concaving/dropping the edge slightly and the shape wouldn't really change at all.
Not sure what you mean @cobweb1510 by saying he said the bat at 2lbs 12oz wasn't finished? It was still 2lbs 12oz and assume it was bound and gripped, so regardless he was swinging a 2lbs 12oz around. Only things to add wild be a scuff and stickers potentially, which wouldn't add even an Oz
Apparently the 2-12 didn't have a binding or grip, so it sounds like it would have come out at a similar weight to the one we got. He was swinging a few around, so I must have got them mixed up. I'm not a player, so to be honest I wasn't really paying much attention beyond making sure he wasn't in danger of hitting anything! I was happy to defer to Oliver saying what he wanted, especially as he actually seemed to be pretty good at communicating what he was thinking. I was just enjoying watching him discussing cricket bats! There was very little "spec" talk- nothing about specific weights or edge size or grains. Much more organic- yes, I like that, that feels a bit less comfy to swing, that kind of thing. I did notice today (when I did a final check on the weight to make sure I hadn't done anything stupid) that there is no concaving, so felt there was probably scope for some reduction there, and there is no requirement for gauge filling edges etc.
I'm actually assuming he plans to reduce the weight- he could well be intending to replace it. I'm happy with either outcome.
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Blimey, you did well to find a Harrow at over 2'8!
Bat weight is s funny one isn't it. As other have already stated, 2'12 would be regarded by most adults as a very heavy bat I'm sure and it does seem very heavy indeed for a 13 year old. The extra weight would certainly force him to play in a certain way and could well hamper his reaction time against quicker bowling. That said, it didn't seem to do Tendulkar much harm. He was well known for wielding a 3lb+ bat but has also gone on record as saying that he always used a heavy bat from a young age.
Personally, I would probably try and get him to use a lighter bat but I guess if it feels right.... it feels right.
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Blimey, you did well to find a Harrow at over 2'8!
Bat weight is s funny one isn't it. As other have already stated, 2'12 would be regarded by most adults as a very heavy bat I'm sure and it does seem very heavy indeed for a 13 year old. The extra weight would certainly force him to play in a certain way and could well hamper his reaction time against quicker bowling. That said, it didn't seem to do Tendulkar much harm. He was well known for wielding a 3lb+ bat but has also gone on record as saying that he always used a heavy bat from a young age.
Personally, I would probably try and get him to use a lighter bat but I guess if it feels right.... it feels right.
It is funny- especially as I've always thought I was being very careful not to give him a bat which was too heavy. When he was younger I bought him a size 4, as he was the correct height for a size 4. I refused to buy him a size 5 until he was tall enough according to the charts. I saw lots of kids being bought bats that were too big/heavy and how much harder it made learning to bat. This has continued through size 6 and Harrow, even whilst all his friends were using bigger bats. The thing is, whilst there are easily findable tables re. suitable bat sizes, there's almost nothing about how much a different sized bat should weigh- although as we've seen in this discussion that appears to be a very open question. It was this question that led me to this forum initially. We'd been recommended the bat maker, but I simply didn't know what kind of questions I should be asking. It sounds like his bats have been pretty heavy all along, although they seem to "pick up" pretty light. I assume that's in the balancing skill by the batmaker. I can't remember exactly why, but Ollies very curmudgeonly batting coach actually commented last year on Ollies bat being nice and light, so he obviously didn't feel it was heavy or restricting him at all.
It seems logical to me that if he's using a Harrow aged 12 that weighs 2-8/9 then his next bat up should be heavier. I'm not sure how much- but even 4oz (100g) doesn't seem like much of a step up in mass for bats being used by a boy of 12 and the same boy at 15! I think what I am coming to recognise is this probably isn't going to be the last bat I buy! I think in my head I had visions of getting this blade rehandled to a long handle when he reaches 6'3"; Now I'm resigned to having to find another £300 further down the line! At least this one might last more than 1 season!
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There really is no right or wrong. It speaks volumes that 2 of the greatest batsmen that have ever played the game, Tendulkar and Lara were at complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of bat weight. Batting is all about feel so if something feels right then go with it.
From a coaching perspective, my only concern would be that a bat that is too big or too heavy can have an impact on a young players development but if his coach is happy and most importantly it is working for him then all is good.
Personally, I sit in the light bat camp and much prefer the bat speed. I've tried heavy bats but again.... for me, light bats just feel right. It has little to do with build or strength unless you are someone like Chris Gayle who can wield a 3lb bat like most of us would something half a pound lighter.
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It is funny- especially as I've always thought I was being very careful not to give him a bat which was too heavy. When he was younger I bought him a size 4, as he was the correct height for a size 4. I refused to buy him a size 5 until he was tall enough according to the charts. I saw lots of kids being bought bats that were too big/heavy and how much harder it made learning to bat. This has continued through size 6 and Harrow, even whilst all his friends were using bigger bats. The thing is, whilst there are easily findable tables re. suitable bat sizes, there's almost nothing about how much a different sized bat should weigh- although as we've seen in this discussion that appears to be a very open question. It was this question that led me to this forum initially. We'd been recommended the bat maker, but I simply didn't know what kind of questions I should be asking. It sounds like his bats have been pretty heavy all along, although they seem to "pick up" pretty light. I assume that's in the balancing skill by the batmaker. I can't remember exactly why, but Ollies very curmudgeonly batting coach actually commented last year on Ollies bat being nice and light, so he obviously didn't feel it was heavy or restricting him at all.
It seems logical to me that if he's using a Harrow aged 12 that weighs 2-8/9 then his next bat up should be heavier. I'm not sure how much- but even 4oz (100g) doesn't seem like much of a step up in mass for bats being used by a boy of 12 and the same boy at 15! I think what I am coming to recognise is this probably isn't going to be the last bat I buy! I think in my head I had visions of getting this blade rehandled to a long handle when he reaches 6'3"; Now I'm resigned to having to find another £300 further down the line! At least this one might last more than 1 season!
2lb 11oz is definitely more on the heavier side of commonly used bat weights amongst adults - most bats that sell in retail are 2lb 10oz or less. To be fair, a fair number of folks don't weigh their bats, and assume they're using a 2.8-2.9, while in reality they've been using a 2.11 all along. 2lb 11oz is quite heavy for a youngster - normally for their first SH bat, I'd recommend juniors to go for 2lb 5oz - 2lb 9oz at the very max. Thing you have to remember is that SH bats will generally pick up heavier, as they're longer so there's weight further away from the hands.
Many schools of thought - heavier bat means you only have to focus on timing and letting the bat do the work, but lighter bat means more bat speed, etc etc. But my biggest worry would be joint injuries caused by repetitive strain if the bat is too heavy, especially if he's a wristy player, or likes to play ramps and scoops and cross bat shots. 2lb 11oz is certainly heavier than I would recommend someone going into their first adult bat, but as he's used a heavier harrow before, so maybe it will suit. 3oz is quite a large jump in bat weights, especially if you're going up a size too whilst you're at it.
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To be fair, a fair number of folks don't weigh their bats, and assume they're using a 2.8-2.9, while in reality they've been using a 2.11 all along.
This is a good point Chad. Certainly when I was younger nobody weighed their bats or knew what weight they were playing, they just swung it around a bit and if it felt good it felt good.
Even now when it is fairly trivial to weigh a bat accurately, it's probably still something quite niche and reserved for obsessive folk like us who frequent this forum..... although with your collection, weighing them all is probably quite time consuming :D
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On a similar note, it's amazing how much a bats weight can fluctuate throughout the year.
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What can they fluctuate From and two if you leave them in a well aired room and not near a radiater but room has heating
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I'm probably on the more obsessive end of the spectrum and weigh my bats quite often. Some of them will shift by a full 2oz throughout the year in various conditions.
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^ Interesting observation!
I was curious about how humidity affected bat weight, as we are in a mostly dry environment. I started with an unscuffed bat that was 1145g, and stored it in a sealed (non working) fridge with a tray of water in the bottom. It picked up 5g every few days, and after a month had put on 60g (=2.1 oz), where the weight hit a plateu. When the tray of water was removed, it came back to where it started within a month.
It surprised me just how much it changed, but it needed some very untypical storage conditions to do it.
I can see how a bat that is a stable 1200g here, could gain an oz or two in other parts of the world, and also the other way round.
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Going back to the original question.
My son has just turned 13 and 5ft 9. He is a very strong lad who hits the ball very hard.
He has a short handled bat, but it is 2lbs 7 I think. The idea a 13 year old could use a 2lbs 11 or more bat is bonkers feel or otherwise.
Take the bat back before it is used and get something more sensible. 2lbs 9 on the scales absolute max.
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Does the weight gain in a bat affect the pickup that much ? As in could someone feel a difference when swinging the bat around ?
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2.9 max no matter how big he is,,,I’m not exactly small, and my match bat is 2.7 now
No way I’d personally let a 13yr old even pick up a bat like that,
I would suggest weighing the bat once it’s been altered at the batmakers,just to be sure..
Keep an eye on grips/scuff sheet/tape etc as this can all add a bit of dead weight to a supposedly finished weight.
Main thing is, he needs to be able to get the bat into a position to play the ball, and his shots
And he needs to do this for more than a few shots,,,especially if he values his wicket and hangs around a bit.
A lighter weight bat will help him massively in indoor nets too, where the ball tends to come onto the bat a little quicker.
He certainly doesn’t need to be able to hit it miles or anything, the main focus should be on being able to play shots consistently and not get fatigued.
Going back many years,,,most sports shops would never let you walk out with a bat that heavy at that age,,,I remember having to practically force the guy at Romida to let me have a 3lb powerbow,as he just didn’t believe I could comfortably use that weight,(even tho I was a lot bigger in those days from gym work,,he was right).
I completely understand not disclosing the maker, but I’m sure like others, I’m a little disappointed in whoever it is
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Going back to the original question.
My son has just turned 13 and 5ft 9. He is a very strong lad who hits the ball very hard.
He has a short handled bat, but it is 2lbs 7 I think. The idea a 13 year old could use a 2lbs 11 or more bat is bonkers feel or otherwise.
Take the bat back before it is used and get something more sensible. 2lbs 9 on the scales absolute max.
Totally agree, taking weight out is bonkers. He should be replacing it .
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Just something from me. My son is now 14 and only 5ft 6in but has long legs and a shorter body but we do expect him to grow to about 5ft 8in min but is skinny. I've always tried to keep his bats as light as possible. He moved to adult this season and I order via the batmaker and have stipulated 2lb 8oz or lighter fully dressed. Its helped him massively.
We went to see a different batmaker last year and we bought 2 bats from him totally against his advice as he felt the bats were a touch too heavy for my boy but the boy said they felt great. Low and behold after a few sessions batting, he was struggling and now these 2 bats are now sat doing nothing and I don't want to start messing with them. Same happened mid season when his 2 main bats broke due to some dodgy balls being used at a County tournament (different story as quite a few players broke bats) - we had to buy a bat from a shop and again he picked 1 that felt great (2lbs 10oz) and we bought it as a temporary bat while he got the broken ones replaced. Lo and behold 7 overs into an innings he was struggling. Thankfully one of the bat makers on here has recently taken weight off and he's using it as a net bat.
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Cases like this are why i always tried to strongly discourage parents from buying bats at this time of year, whether as Christmas presents or otherwise. If he's an exceptionally tall lad, then when we've gotten through winter and he hasn't used it yet (winter nets aside, where you shouldn't be using a new/match bat unless you have no alternative) he might possibly have outgrown it, as there are sizes above short handle, long blade and long handle. These are rarities but they are options for taller people. So a custom bat as a 13 year olds first bat is probably not the best option. Particularly a 'blind' present experience like this, where what you've agreed and ordered is totally different to what is received (those of us who've been around long enough are probably making an educated guess on the batmaker, but looking through your old posts I suspect we are wide of the mark)
At this time of year the best option is a gift voucher, not as exciting to open on Christmas day I know, but if he already knows he's getting a bat because he went to be 'fitted' for one then the surprise of unwrapping it is somewhat lost. This voucher can be redeemed once any pre season growth spurts are out the way.
I ran a retail shop, sure we offered custom bats from trusted batmakers but most of what we sold was off the shelf from a myriad of choice. I always tried to refuse for as long as possible to allow a child getting their first SH bat to even see the heavier bats. I wanted them to wave as many of the lighter bats around as possible. I always performed a quick test* that to me was a failsafe to show if a bat was too heavy. Those who've seen it in person will agree it is pretty effective.
Obviously brand pull was a thing, and at the time New Balance was all the rage with youngsters, but didn't offer loads of super light bats; a recipe for disaster. Thankfully most parents listened even if their child didn't, but there were always a few who blanked all the advice I could provide, and ultimately if they continue to insist they want something, then you kind of have to sell it to them or they will just go and get it elsewhere. Not saying this is wheat happened with you, but more of a general observation on this very important stage in any cricketers life; their first SH bat.
Most parents have an expectation like yourself that the bat will last a number of years, perhaps because it is more expensive than a junior equivalent, perhaps because they can't outgrow it (not quite true, see above) or perhaps because that's just the expectation of modern sports equipment. I would always try to advise the parent got a relatively cheap bat at the correct weight. It might be that as the child grows/changes physically as they get older, perhaps their playing style will change? Perhaps they will get stronger, or maybe shoot up height wise but won't fill out, so become 'weaker' ? - the point being that during the teenage years their needs from their equipment are likely to change quite often and sometimes by quite a lot. This is before you factor in the inevitable teenage trait of following fads/fashion and also probably not having much of an idea of what sort of equipment actually suits their game. You will have a lot of other equipment to buy in the coming years that will regularly become worn out, or outgrown, or both (shoes, helmets, gloves, pads, whites) - it's is likely that a bat will be no different.
The child who treats their bat with respect is one in a million in my experience. Most bats i see used by teenagers get launched around the changing room, back garden or practice nets, left in puddles (yes really!) left out in the rain, or just the plain old classic; 'I lost it' - I'm just trying to condition you to the idea that it is very unlikely he will be using the same bat by the age of 15, and that's if it suited his exact needs as they are right now and those needs don't change.
Some questions, which might prompt a better buying experience next time.
Was he wearing his batting gloves when swinging bats around? Nobody picked a bat up at Vitas Cricket without wearing batting gloves, which can weigh around 10 ounces in adult sizes. When you combine this with waggling a bat around that had roughly 3 or 4 ounces of binding, grip and stickers still to be added, we are talking about a serious amount of missing weight that is totally skewing the buying experience.
My number one pet peeve from video reviewers of the last decade was waggling a bat around with no gloves on and saying how great it felt; super pickup! Really? Must have felt like a wand when you wore your batting gloves then? Videos are just sales guff, primarily there to sell the actual bat in the video rather than sing the pros/cons of that range/model. I never got involved in that part of the market. Buy a bat by handling as many as you can in a shop or similar. As you get a feel for what you like then of course go to a batmaker you can trust and ask for what you want. I don't think I'll ever buy a piece of willow from anyone but Matt at H4L for example, as I've found what i like and trust him to provide it.
Is he likely to grow/change physique? As the answer with most teenagers is usually yes then the aforementioned advice on not overspending and committing to years of use from the same equipment is prudent. I once had a 13/14 year old walk in the door with his parents in April, he had size 8 feet and was on the cusp of a 5/6 junior bat. Purchased what was right at the time and out the door they went, parents and kid happy. By August he was a size 11 shoe and he was walking out the door with a short handle, I think they kept him in a grow bag in the greenhouse.
Does he *really* know what he wants? You'll find that most people in his cricketing life will try and impose their own views upon him, meaning kids quite often form a quite strange concoction of various opinions about what might suit their game. His adult team captain, junior club coach, county coach, private coach, school coach, you, the shop/batmaker trying to sell him something, all of them will be telling him something different about what he should be looking for in a bat. And that's before we consider what he sees on tv, or before he starts comparing his viewpoint with the ones his mates have formed from a similar melting pot of opinions. If all his mates think differently to him, will he second guess himself?
I do like Dean Headley but he did used to frustrate me. As Cricket Master at a local school, he would actively tell parents that he wouldn't pick kids in teams unless they were using a bat that was at least a size too small, because he wanted to guarantee they were using a light bat. A stream of parents would come into the shop every year with the same story, some after I'd already sold them a bat that was 'too big' - even after they spent literally hours being sized up, got a bat they are happy with, and even used it for a few buckets of balls on our in house bowling machine, loved it, parents happy, kid happy. The following week they are back because a former England player (who must therefore know what he is talking about...... :( ) has convinced them it is too big.
Personally I preferred to sell them a bat that was a suitable weight rather than something that was obviously far too small. Eventually we came to an understanding when I deliberately (with a like minded parents permission) produced a disgustingly heavy size 6 for a particularly lanky teenager who Deano had sent in because his harrow was 'too big and too heavy, go and get a size 6 boy' (to me he was on the cusp of harrow/SH, a perfect candidate for the academy/small mens/womens size that some brands offer) - If a former England international can be so wrong, and have such a strong influence then there is every chance that less prominent people could be doing the same.
* The test
1. Have the kid hold the bat in their stance and face a wall around 10 yards or so away (distance not overly important as long as it isn't right in front of their nose, as we want them to focus on something far away)
2. Ensure the way they are holding the bat is comfortable, but it must be 'up' - i.e. the toe facing back towards slips/keeper, similar to the image below
3. Ask them to imagine that a bowler is at the top of his run up, preparing to run in at them from the wall they are facing, stand behind them in roughly the place where a keeper would be when stood up to the stumps, and make it clear to them to focus on the bowler
4. As you remind them again to focus on the bowler, grab the toe of the bat and take on a little bit of responsibility for holding it up, allow them to feel that they are still holding the bat, but it is clear that you've reduced the feel of the weight at the toe end. At the same time ask them to take their bottom hand off the bat (the right hand for a right hander) and continue to focus on the bowler. In a perfect world, it should feel like the bat 'sinks' a little as the weight settles between your hand holding the toe up, and their top hand on the handle
5. As they are now holding the bat in their stance with their top hand, almost ready to do a classic little one handed drive to a half volley type drill to work the top arm, take a little bit more weight from them and ask them to keep focusing on the bowler who should now be running in.
6. Release the bat from your grip and allow it to drop (or not as the case may be)
7. If the toe of the bat plummets to the ground, it's definitely too heavy. If they are struggling to hold it up (shaking arm, looking back at the bat rather than concentrating on the bowler, shifting their weight, etc) then try a couple of taps down on the toe of the bat to see if you can get it to drop. The signs mentioned just now suggest it is almost certainly too heavy, but a couple of taps might tip things over the edge and confirm it for you. If they remain steady and hold the bat comfortably in a fairly typical position, even after a couple of taps, then it is likely the bat is OK from a weight/pickup perspective.
(https://cricketlab.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/CRICKETLAB_Cricket_Batting_stance.jpg)
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I think Jake has made an excellent post, this is similar to how I learnt as a kid. If I could pick up and play three straight bat shots, comfortably, with just my top hand, it was a "maybe", whereas if I could not, it was definitely too heavy.
It's not just the weight, but balance, as I can do it with two of my bats, but my third is a lot more difficult, yet they are all bang on 2:10. One just has a lot more wood lower down.
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^ Interesting observation!
I was curious about how humidity affected bat weight, as we are in a mostly dry environment. I started with an unscuffed bat that was 1145g, and stored it in a sealed (non working) fridge with a tray of water in the bottom. It picked up 5g every few days, and after a month had put on 60g (=2.1 oz), where the weight hit a plateu. When the tray of water was removed, it came back to where it started within a month.
It surprised me just how much it changed, but it needed some very untypical storage conditions to do it.
I can see how a bat that is a stable 1200g here, could gain an oz or two in other parts of the world, and also the other way round.
Off topic I know, but this is the level of bat nerdery I can get behind!
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To play devil's advocate to what seems to be the prevailing opinion; at only a year or so older I went to the local shop to pick out my own bat for the first time, and chose a 2lb14oz long blade. Was a great decision, still possibly the best bat I've ever owned and I smacked it everywhere using it. I was an unusually large child to be fair, but the idea that a heavy bat is totally inappropriate for any teenager seems daft to me. Kids develop at very different rates and some are going to be perfectly happy using a decent weight bat. 67 extra grams on a bat certainly isn't going to injure anyone either.
Sounds like you've come to a happy conclusion anyway, getting it taken back down to the weight you'd originally specced seems sensible too.
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There will always be exceptions, Tendulkar turned out to be one of the greatest players of all time though he used an extremely heavy bat from a young age. But in general I think for kids who are still growing, it's better a bat be on the lighter end to prevent hindrances in technique and injuries.
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Hi All, some of you might recognise me however I cannot manage to get access to my previous account.
I worked for a 'previous' forum favourite and dealt with many requests for both young and old some bats even for kids were bespoke designs because a kid had a bat which they liked but due to the constant swapping of models no longer made.
Can I ask the weight an size of the old bat?
Getting a kid fitted into a bat is difficult, you must think about the size, and also the size jump from their previous size and this is also the case when we discuss weight. Really we would never want to add more than 2oz to their last bat and size we would try to get the size right for them however if they've been using a bat too small or too large this become objective and you must use common sense. A bat for Christmas...this isn't wrong however it could be a gamble.
So in this cause a 13 year old at 5' 9..this is a full size bat and therefore comes with a weight increase however to keep weight down you can reduce the size of the blade and increase the handle to save up to a 3-4 oz. Unless your bat maker is able to make a bat at the right weight with a shape which can do this. The (near) perfect shape we found for this was the old GM 6 Six. Personally I would be looking at a weight around 2'4 but not 2'11 and so in my opinion the batmaker has badly advised you.
Please feel free to name and shame to others do not make these same mistakes.
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I've been reading people's comments re. a more suitable weight with interest. So I decided to stick his current Harrow on the scales. Again I am assuming the scales are accurate, but the Harrow (used for a year) is 2'8 1/4". It sounds like he's been using heavy bats all along- despite me making an effort to always ensure he was using the right size at every step (although for some reason I clearly remember his batting coach commenting on the light weight of Ollie's bat last year).
Was the harrow from the same bat maker? A 2'8 in a harrow is heavy. Most pros use 2-9 to 2-11 and they train every day with the bat and in the gym. I really cannot see a bat of this weight helping your son and as an Advanced Coach Id be asking the parent to purchase something much lighter