Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Keeley Cricket => Topic started by: willmau5 on November 14, 2023, 08:22:49 AM
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Hi everyone
From having a little browse round here it's really clear that Keeley bats/Tim Keeley have an incredible reputation. It'd be good to understand what are the reasons for this? Particularly from some of the batmakers on here.
Is there anything Keeley does differently to other batmakers? Different pressing techniques, specific profiles? Different willow or drying techniques? How much is based on his/their skill and experience, and how might some of the other batmakers here get to that level?
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Think you've answered your own question a bit 😅 Keeley's reputation is based on years of experience and results, he's made great bats across multiple companies for a seriously long time without ever really producing duds.
As for how others might get there, there are plenty of cracking batmakers out there - not with TK's level of experience maybe - but plenty of skill at batmaking. Only way you get that kind of experience is time in the job I suppose.
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Exactly what @Jimbo says, experience and reputation. He's regarded as one of the best as he's done it for a long time and me some great bats. Doesn't mean to say others can't who haven't been at it as long, some great batmakers out there producing consistently. I've used a Keeley before I started making and it was a really nice stick for the two seasons I used it. Split through the toe, but that can happen to any bat regardless.
You'll find talk of triple pressing etc, but all that matters to me when buying a bat is who you want to support, if you like the company/branding, that it performs and you're getting what you're paying for grade wise.
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Treble!
Though someone likely going to start advertising as terror presses since.
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Oops! That'll teach me for trying to multitask, especially this early! I've amended. Triple pressing, sob pressed in cleft form, then when handled and again when shaped to get the exact feel they want. It's pretty common practice tho with a lot of batmakers I think, but each will have their own methods which work for them. No doubt Keeley do mate really really nice bats tho and I like the branding too personally.
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Wrote this in a post a couple of years back:
"What makes a Tim Keeley bat special? Well, I'm a firm believer that there's not that much between top-level batmakers. They all use the same willow and handle - and the MCC have limited any real innovation so is the average Tim Keeley bat significantly better than anyone else's? Probably not. The bats Tim and Nick make are wonderfully consistent and well pressed, but they are not alone in this.
What does set the Tim (and his brother) apart though is their reputation. And that's a reputation he thoroughly, thoroughly deserves.
Tim has been making bats by CNC since the 90s, pretty much the same technology that GM launched 10 years later and now claim make them the World's most advanced batmakers. First short blade, long handle cricket bat? Tim Keeley with the Newbery Uzi. It's taken over 10 years for other brands to cotton on with every brand now offering one in their range. First carbon handle cricket bat? Again. Tim Keeley. Adjustable counterbalanced handles? Yep, him too.
Tim is one of the last remaining batmakers of the John Newbery dynasty, one of perhaps a couple remaining now Millichamp has stopped making. Newbery has done more for cricket bat design than anyone in the past 100 years. The Scoop was his design, as was the Excalibur. These are 2 of the most iconic designs ever to have graced the field. Tim trained directly under his stewardship.
Keeley fully deserves his reputation and the plaudits, and the industry widely recognises this too. When a young batmaker needs help starting out, who is the first to lend a hand? Who do the Indian batmakers visit for advice on shaping and finishing? He's the most humble, helpful, artisan you could hope to meet.
It's possible to visit the Keeley factory and see them in action and I can't recommend it enough."
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Think the heritage counts for a lot towards it, with whom he and Andrew Kember trained under before going their own way with their own brands.
Having been lucky enough to visit Tim and spend some time with him being shown the manufacturing process its by no means the cutting-edge approach some brands use nowadays but he was prob the first to utilise a CNC to part finish them profile-wise.
My first Harrow bat was a newbery, this led me down the path to using one when I got a SH and subsequently used him to supply the Ayrtek bats when he was making lots of white-label ones for the smaller brands out there at the time. This has been scaled back since as he now has the Keeley brand to promote and sell.
As @jonny77 mentioned there are lots of other bat makers out there but very few with 35+ years of experience making them, you learn a lot about trial and error over a period of that length of time!
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Some terrific bat makers out there
On the odd occasion some ppl have bad experiences
As Kember was mentioned and taught under same tutilage I don’t think his brand ever reached the Keeley heights, maybe because of the reasons Tom mentioned and keeleys innovations
I was surprised to read salix has nearly gone bust a few times too ..
From what I know they also make terrific bats although I have heard the quality has gone down slightly finishing etc but maybe it’s been rectified Now ..
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I think Salix's quality has been great and a benchmark in terms of finishing that others have aspired or had to live upto, whilst their willingness/ability to move with the times to make big profile/edge and light bats may have been slower. Perhaps the new Acid branded range addresses this whilst leaving the Salix brand as the heritage range?
I didn't expect the ones I had in stock when I bought TCB to hang around as they are both 2.7 full width and length SH bats at 2.7 or under!
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This raises the question on how important finishing is. Maybe another thread. Salix have always been well regarded in terms of finishing and rightly so. I'm not sure how much finishing to w glass finish is important for most outside of CBF, but it's not just their finishing obviously. Again, obviously a high quality batmaker with tremendous pedigree and experience.
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As Kember was mentioned and taught under same tutilage I don’t think his brand ever reached the Keeley heights, maybe because of the reasons Tom mentioned and keeleys innovations
Kember's thoughts on Tim are here:
"It was the supporting cast at Newbery that had more of an impact on Kember’s early career, as the likes of Tim Keeley and Kevin Woodgate showed him the standards he needed to meet. “The key one was Tim,” says Kember, “because he was good – really good. Anything John could do, Tim could do, and frankly, a lot of the design ideas and a lot of the stuff that was done, went through Tim.”"
https://wisden.com/stories/your-game/cricket-gear/salix-cricket-story
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Hi everyone
From having a little browse round here it's really clear that Keeley bats/Tim Keeley have an incredible reputation. It'd be good to understand what are the reasons for this? Particularly from some of the batmakers on here.
Is there anything Keeley does differently to other batmakers? Different pressing techniques, specific profiles? Different willow or drying techniques? How much is based on his/their skill and experience, and how might some of the other batmakers here get to that level?
Each bat guarantees 3 centuries per season...
... just joking, great bats and legendary bat maker, I quite like their handles. One regret I have is I wish I'd purchased a newbery when Tim was making them with the old branding, was a really classy brand. A brand I feel has lost its way a bit.
Plenty of other great makers making bats that perform. I'd love to try a bat made by @thebigginge (hint hint and grovelling), but GN don't specify where the bat was manufactured...
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Each bat guarantees 3 centuries per season...
Ah, so now I know the reason my average is so, well, average. A Keeley would sort it all out.
Thanks all for the views so far though. Really interesting, and confirms (not that I had any doubt) he's a legend of the game, particularly around these parts. And so good to see he's shared what he's learned with others, doubtless some of you on here too.
My next bat is definitely going to come from an individual batmaker rather than a brand, and Keeley seems to have a foot in both camps at the moment from my reading of this thread. It's not just about being able to spec a bat myself - indeed I'll just leave that to the expert and trust what they do - it's more about wanting to support someone who's invested time and money in learning a complex and pretty niche craft. I'm also more and more troubled by the carbon impact of bats. I find it uncomfortable that trees grown in the UK are shipped halfway around the world and back, just to be used in a sport that's disproportionately affected by climate change. These days I'd rather my money went to a local, premium product and support a local business which doesn't have the same baggage.
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Applaud all of that mate 👍
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If you are keen to get a Keeley bat I would advise that you do it sooner rather than later. Not just from the cost rising point of view but who knows how long the brothers will keep going.
Heard that from a reliable source.
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Of the two, my preference would be for a Salix over a Keeley. Salix though have always been very poor with their marketing and their website is consistently dreadful. I did a bit of work in online retail before starting my career and i can't think I have come across anything quite so poor.
I had a look this afternoon and it is more Alan Partridge than a serious attempt to sell a product to a customer. As a reasonably experienced bat buyer, I would have no idea from this what was the difference between bat shapes / models. You can buy a bat as "prepared "but you are none the wiser what this is and they come in light medium and heavy again without any description of what each represents
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXFqvZJ0/Screenshot-20231114-112447-Instagram.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCnGsQvd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4rVXwyY/Screenshot-20231114-112124-Instagram.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjzFDnBM)
It is a real shame given the quality of the product and the time dedicated to the standard of the finishing that they can't spent the time to market the products well
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If you are keen to get a Keeley bat I would advise that you do it sooner rather than later. Not just from the cost rising point of view but who knows how long the brothers will keep going.
Heard that from a reliable source.
Do you know if they have a succession plan ? Kids brothers sisters ?
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Of the two, my preference would be for a Salix over a Keeley. Salix though have always been very poor with their marketing and their website is consistently dreadful. I did a bit of work in online retail before starting my career and i can't think I have come across anything quite so poor.
I had a look this afternoon and it is more Alan Partridge than a serious attempt to sell a product to a customer. As a reasonably experienced bat buyer, I would have no idea from this what was the difference between bat shapes / models. You can buy a bat as "prepared "but you are none the wiser what this is and they come in light medium and heavy again without any description of what each represents
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXFqvZJ0/Screenshot-20231114-112447-Instagram.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCnGsQvd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4rVXwyY/Screenshot-20231114-112124-Instagram.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjzFDnBM)
It is a real shame given the quality of the product and the time dedicated to the standard of the finishing that they can't spent the time to market the products well
I thought they had a new website coming or is this it?
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Do you know if they have a succession plan ? Kids brothers sisters ?
Not that I have been told, I would buy sooner rather than later if people are interested.
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I thought they had a new website coming or is this it?
It looks different and the site navigation is easier from the last time I visited so I assume this is it
Unfortunately the fundamental problem over making it hard for customers to understand what you are selling seems to remain
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Catching up with an old friend today
He felt salix communication was poor and the whole experience ordering online was not great
Perhaps not enough staff ..
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I've used 3 or 4 Keeleys, all decent apart from one that was a bit firm, I could have given it a bit longer and it might have been great. Do they make better performing bats then some forum members, and smaller brands? I personally don't think so, or there is very little in it, especially with pricing.I'm not a fan of thin handles so that might be why I've gone elsewhere. We all know they make for a lot of pros I do wonder if that sways a lot of people on here.
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We all know they make for a lot of pros I do wonder if that sways a lot of people on here.
Yes I wondered if that was something to do with it. I'll be honest, the reason I bought a GM when I got back into cricket a few years ago was because of their pros, and the reason I used a DF as a kid was because all my Worcestershire heroes did too. Maybe there's an element that Keeley is similar, but for those of us more interested in the batmaking world and at a higher price point?
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Catching up with an old friend today
He felt salix communication was poor and the whole experience ordering online was not great
Perhaps not enough staff ..
Our opening bat has a Salix Knife, and it's a beautiful thing. He does the 3 hour journey to the factory to pick his out every couple of seasons. This season he said there was a different atmosphere than usual, bit more hectic and the guys seemed a little more pressured than the previous time.
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I see you have a pryzm Hylacon lovely bats
Not sure who makes them now. Yes he said the same regarding salix… and a bit more
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I see you have a pryzm Hylacon lovely bats
Not sure who makes them now. Yes he said the same regarding salix… and a bit more
Yes, not sure who made the Halcyon (think I remember asking and they said they were trialling Indian imports?). Had it knocked and prepared by Martin Berrill as he's just down the road from me, and it goes like a rocket since he got his hands on it.
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Very simply for his reputation alongside a brand that’s well designed and shapes that are on point. Keeps its simple with the 3 shapes. His skill is superb and crafted over 30 years in the game. However from what iv seen Robert James, Ed Garrard, Danny Owens, Matt Barton, James Dollive, @jonny77 and maybe even myself given 30 years in the game will be as good. For his Age and maybe I’m biased but Ed is superb for someone in his twenties
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Ed's pressing is outstanding, would be nice if his stock shapes weren't all quite so scalloped though!
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For his Age and maybe I’m biased but Ed is superb for someone in his twenties
I have two bats from Ed and would certainly agree with this
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Ed's pressing is outstanding, would be nice if his stock shapes weren't all quite so scalloped though!
To achieve optimum selling potential you have to make 2.7 to 2.10 max bats which is is mark now with a release every week of a handful of bats. Like iv found out over the last couple of years I can make a lively full shape with the dimensions that are required edge wise etc but the majority will be 2.11 plus and no matter now good I know they are they never sell as quickly as a bat I list at 2lb 8oz.
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What is an average weight cleft that comes in , there may be no average .. ?
How hard is it to produce a bat full profile with 37-38mm edges 107mm and full profile and be 2.9 ish
I don’t know the answer but gives some context to the above and concaved profiles
I don’t think I have seen a convex profile from Ed ever, have heard he presses well but his bats weigh sometimes more than he lists .. maybe one off experinces . .. think someone here mentioned it
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Realised I have missed the handle weight which could skew things too
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To achieve optimum selling potential you have to make 2.7 to 2.10 max bats which is is mark now with a release every week of a handful of bats. Like iv found out over the last couple of years I can make a lively full shape with the dimensions that are required edge wise etc but the majority will be 2.11 plus and no matter now good I know they are they never sell as quickly as a bat I list at 2lb 8oz.
I know not every bat can be a full shape, not expecting that at all, but literally every bat he makes is at least moderately scalloped. Would much prefer if he trimmed the edge size down a little and left them a bit fuller but it seems to be his default shape.
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I posted these on my socials the other day as a handful of the bats I’ve ever used and kept.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V68Xbmbv/IMG-1267.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gv8kxB1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hBzcztJ/IMG-1268.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfQXfnSz)
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Is it just me or was Affinity way ahead of its time in terms of shapes, handles, branding....everything about it was on point. I still have a custom bat from him that I have yet to use.
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I posted these on my socials the other day as a handful of the bats I’ve ever used and kept.
(https://i.postimg.cc/V68Xbmbv/IMG-1267.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gv8kxB1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hBzcztJ/IMG-1268.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfQXfnSz)
Ah when Newbery was such a classy brand....nice collection.
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Yeh the B52's were actually Series 1's that Hit4Six refurbed for me many years ago now. The Toro was a TK that had a pressing crack on the face but went like stink until it go to the end of its life with delamination and cracks where I avoided using the middle.
Should have taken a profile pic though to show the evolution of edge size through to the Toro model.
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What is an average weight cleft that comes in , there may be no average .. ?
How hard is it to produce a bat full profile with 37-38mm edges 107mm and full profile and be 2.9 ish
I don’t know the answer but gives some context to the above and concaved profiles
I don’t think I have seen a convex profile from Ed ever, have heard he presses well but his bats weigh sometimes more than he lists .. maybe one off experinces . .. think someone here mentioned it
I have these two bats made by Ed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7P9WGBYy/20231115-114013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjXrHfMZ)
The one on the left has a convxed profile
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjmLB8hp/20231115-114116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3WKyv8K2)
The one on the right has minimal concaving
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQLJWMw4/20231115-114159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhX9Sn9Q)
These are both heavy bats with a low middle, long spine and thick shoulder which is my personal preference. The only way a batmaker could get these in at a lower weight (which isn't something I would want in any event) is to use an incredibly low density cleft (which are few and far between) or take additional moisture our of the cleft (in which case, you wouldn't expect it to be lasting long)
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Yikes, the shoulders on those.
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Yikes, the shoulders on those.
One of the developments I haven’t liked in bat making since I purchased my first SH bat at the end of the 90s has been a trend for ever increasing removal of wood from the shoulder of the bat. When having something made, it is something that is key for me
(https://i.postimg.cc/kX23xyPV/20201006-121515.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xcV4QMCY)
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I meant the wonkiness :o
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6pC77Sm/Untitled.png)
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I meant the wonkiness :o
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6pC77Sm/Untitled.png)
Both sides are identical with that slight recess as the face meets the shoulder. The latest stock range have dropped shoulders which isn't to my personal preference