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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Mr Cricket on April 15, 2010, 11:29:19 AM
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chris woakes of warwickshire has just ripped out the lancashire top order in their county championship match and steven finn took 14 wickets last week in a div 2 game.
these are 2 up and coming english seamers who appear to have real quality (and there are more on the fringes), i know its april and the pitches arent going to be 100% batsman freindly but we did see chris rogers score 340 runs last week for derbyshire (you little beauty!!!) so evidently there is scope for batsmen to score runs.
i think if these guys can continue to improve as they are england could find themselves with some geniune wicket taking bowlers in the near future which could see us climb the rankings and actually be a consistantly good team.
discuss
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Rogers got those runs on a bowlers graveyard though, and to be fair he is a class apart. Finn was really encouraging to see, his 9 and 5 fers must give him some great encouragement and with Andrew Strauss being in the slips, he will have an good summer ahead for England. Hannon Dalby last week got 5 wickets as well, against Bell and Trott, who are no mugs by any mean. Good to see Woakes who will be pushing for England Lions, the theory is though that he isnt quick enough to cut at the highest level, after all apart from New Zealand there isnt much swing or seam, however I hope he proves me wrong.
On the batsmans note, obviously Rogers got stacks of runs but also young Taylor who made 88 and Trott who scored the same, Ramps again got another 100, when will he stop? He didnt get many this morning but hopefully Hamilton brown cashes in, I really rate him as a cricketer and hope to see him wearing some sort of England shirt this summer.
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Bowlers graveyard? Was good enough for Derbyshire to skittle them twice! Rogers is on a different level, should be opening for Australia or at least have been given a better crack at it better than Jacques, Hughes and Katich.
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choppy personally im not a big hamilton-brown fan, but i think it would be easier for him to get in to some form of england side if he didnt have the weight of captaincy on his shoulders, hes under a bit too much pressure a bit too young really in that he has to boss around ramps, afzaal etc who probably know a fit bit more than him, though if he does manage to bat well it would be a pretty good acheivement but i think an unlikely one, this season anyway.
Outlaw: they skittled surrey twice because surrey, unfortunately most of the time are utter (No Swearing Please) unless the top order gets a strong start and until Spriegel >:( and Harinath >:( are told to get lost and Brown opens with someone decent we will capitulate more often than not :(
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Bowlers graveyard? Was good enough for Derbyshire to skittle them twice! Rogers is on a different level, should be opening for Australia or at least have been given a better crack at it better than Jacques, Hughes and Katich.
Before Jaques had to have his back repaired, he was head and shoulders above all other Aussie domestic openers.
Rogers isn't in Jaque's class
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what happened to jaques back? id forgotten he even existed :/
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Just a bit of cut and paste:
Last June Phil Jaques had an uncertain future following three back operations, but after completing a full campaign with the Blues he heads to England next week to re-join Worcestershire and continue a journey that he wants to finish in Australian selection...
When he walks out to bat he knows his back is not going to break and the prosthetic disc that was replaced between L5 and S1 has become part of him. For three years he struggled with the problem while establishing himself as a Test batsman, but he was forced home from India in 2008 and has since been stuck on 11 Tests, 902 runs and three centuries.
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Hamilton Brown is a puppet captain. Grizzly is the man in control.
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Surrey other than Ramps, Davies and Hamilton Brown are pathetic, Jaques was on another level than all other Aussie openers, but he Was but isnt now. Rogers has overtaken him for me, and apart from Stuart Law and Brad Hodge, Rogers is the most unlucky cricketer to play for Australia.
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Just my opinion Jeet, I think Rogers is the better bat now very consistent and a player of his calibre with the runs he has scored to back himself should be given a fair crack. However I have heard his face doesn't fit, not sure why though as he is a very nice bloke. And as for Hamilton-Brown I think he does have a very good cricketing brain however he has an arrogance about him that his talent doesn't match up too.
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how can you say that jeet? rogers is easily the most effective overseas player in england right now and has been for that past couple of seasons, and yet also holds his form for victoria, he performs to a high level all around the world in all formats and he would have been successful at test level given the chance.
anyway, this isnt a thread about rogers, i would like to know peoples opinions on the future of english seam bowling... what are you views on this?
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anyway, this isnt a thread about rogers, i would like to know peoples opinions on the future of english seam bowling... what are you views on this?
Threadbare really...
Finn has a lot of pressure on him now - let's just hope he doesn't break down.
Apart from that it all looks a bit military medium.
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I just hope they dont get called up to England soon.
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maybe a siddle/hilfenhaus style pairing could be forged from the military medium stuff and finn could be our brett lee. afterall with lee aus would have won the ashes! and siddle/hilfenhaus always looked like taking wickets in english conditions
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You don't need to be lightning quick mgrath proved that plus pollock was better when he slowed down woakes and Finn look promising
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thanks alvaro, i have to agree about hamilton captaincy wise,
choppy, i think surreys good players are:
ramps- no need to justify! average - 90.00,
davies- seems very good behind the stumps, an effective bat - average not on surrey website
michael brown- solid opener with capability to go for it when needed.average - 36.74,
usman afzaal - inconsistent but talented bat, decent occasional bowler. average - 57.68
chris jordan - when not injured
andre nel - not been that successful but undoubtably a good bowler
then there are a few mediocre players etc hamilton-brown, meaker, dernbach(better than some), walters
then there are spriegel, harinath who are both awful, tremlett and rao havent played yet so cant comment.
unfortunately our main weakness is our dependency on the openers and when they fail, ramprakash so we do need to find a partner for brown but it seems spriegel is a favorite of adams :( just my 2 cents worth :)
and on the actual topic i reckon anderson/broad could do the siddle/hilfenhaus thing but there are no real brett lee style quicks yet but finn could be promising :)
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Bowlers graveyard? Was good enough for Derbyshire to skittle them twice! Rogers is on a different level, should be opening for Australia or at least have been given a better crack at it better than Jacques, Hughes and Katich.
It's well known that he is a bit of a loser - that's why he left WA, he isn't a good team man.
Jack Brookes of Northants. Watch him.
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Hamilton Browns a far better bat than Brown, hes a real talent. Afzaal is far to incosistent, think he got a 90 odd in T20 and bugger all after that. Jordan cant be promising if hes always injured! Andre Nel isn't worth it, better off having a young English lad playing. You have no opening partnership and rely to heavily on Ramps, no quality seamer either which makes life tough for Batty.
The one day stuff might be different now though....
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Wasnt aware of this Punter, always seems a decent bloke when I've spoken to him and not heard any problems from friends who train with him daily.
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Wasnt aware of this Punter, always seems a decent bloke when I've spoken to him and not heard any problems from friends who train with him daily.
cracking name drop!!
Supporting Surrey is a sorry state of affairs at the moment. It will take a while for the team to rebuild. I can't believe they didn't start the rebuilding process a few years ago - it all went wrong when Martin Bicknell retired. Jordon is a talented player - just always injured. He is the most talented youngster on the squad at the moment. Why we signed Afzaal and Nel I will never know.
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we are just going have to agree to disagree over brown and hamilton-brown, i have nothing aginst hamilton-brown but he has too much responsibility i think, he should be left to bat rather than be puppeted as alvaro said by adams. Jordan isnt always injured, he had a stress fracture in his back three years ago, recovered but now its got worse and hes back to square one, when hes fit hell be promising again then o.k?
why is nel not worth it, we have no half decent young english lads! we have meaker, linley spriegel harinath etc they are all (No Swearing Please)!
"You have no opening partnership and rely to heavily on Ramps" pretty much what i said, we need a partner for brown then we will be a bit better off. if jordan was fit batty wouldnt have it so tough but he knew what he was getting himself in for when he came to surrey.
i wouldnt get my hopes up for OD stuff, there will be loads of hype then well be knocked out of all the tournaments straight away and come bottomish in the leagues. like normal
on another note, spriegel has done amazingly again and harinath is really going quick [facepalm]
unlucky chopster hamilton-brown is out for 36, we are screwed.
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Is Meaker the lad who bowls gas? Think I saw him at some point last season looked alright has he not been bowling well?
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gas? sorry what do you mean lol
hes seems fairly quick but just not that effective really
now davies is gone :(
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I mean bowls good pace, heard about someone at surrey who bowls consistently around 90 clicks and above, thought it was Meaker may be wrong?
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Jade Durnbatch (sp?) is the supposed quickie - not sure about his radar, but he spent the winter with the MRF Blimb (bowling academy) so hopefully he will have improved
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What is it with that lad and the thirties? His average is 36 as well! Oh well, Nel isn't worth it, hes lost it completely IMO, if you are scared to play English lads then why sign them? They aren't going to get better watching are they? Play them for a season, who knows they might grow with confidence and take 40 wickets?! Spriegel wouldnt make most county sides and I have no view on Harinath, I havent seen him play so therefore cannot comment on him....
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Davies has gone to Monty, 150 all out I reckon....
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Dernbach is medium-fast according to surrey so i doubt hes 90mph, doesnt look it anyway,
Meaker does seem to be quick yes but when ive seen him he hasnt troubled batsmen at all really, on the other hand Nel the other day set a couple of derbyshire players up, bouncer or two then the yorker, was bowling nicely :)
"Spriegel wouldnt make most county sides" - too true but tell it to chris adams,
" have no view on Harinath" - seen him twice, looks very nervous at the crease, has no intention of scoring most of the time, i mean against derbyshire he was watching lobg-hops go past! so frustrating, he just a more boring slower spriegel tbh.
Also if we only play these crap young english lads then they wont have any experienced bowlers to learn tactics etc from will they, they cant be coached everything they have to watch experienced players in action too
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Green shoots of recovery at OT, but if you will be condemned to another year of a medium-pace bowler having to open your first-class innings then it will be a bloody struggle! Its little short of embarrassing that we scratch around with Tom Smith and sometimes Kyle Hogg opening the batting whilst Derby have just the kind or pro we should be picking up instead of the overpaid big names with nothing to prove. Shame for all concerned Rogers cant play over here next summer.
As for Surrey, surely every non-Surrey fan wants to see RHB fall flat on his face?
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harinath has 20 off 130 balls at the mo lol
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Surely Dernbach knows what hes doing now? England had Stuart Broad as the senior bowler in Bangladesh and hes only played 28 tests! If you are good enough to play county cricket you should work out how to bowl/bat quickly enough....
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As for Surrey, surely every non-Surrey fan wants to see RHB fall flat on his face?
No, hes a talent, why does everyone have this view, the lad is class!
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dernbach knows what hes doing but hes not the same type of bowler as Nel, meaker wouldnt learn that much from dernbach really as hes never been that fast, Nel was a seam bowler rather than swing.
Yes in Bangladesh correct me if im wrong but they didnt want to chose him as the senior bowler werent some bowlers injured?
Anyway Broad would have had senior bowlers to start with while he was at county level wouldnt he.
Clarkie, at surreys first game of the season there was not much support for RHB from surrey members and a great deal of b1tching! Maybe everyone has this view because its the truth choppy ;)
The commentator thinks spriegel "is a very, very good player" :(
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Actually Broad was opening the bowling for Leics right from day one, or close enough to it. He is a different bowler now to he was then. Whats true about it? The lads done well and it isn't his fault! He was only offered it and maybe was naive to take it but he will learn, and become an excellent leader and cricketer.
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I think people want Hamilton-Brown to fail due to how he handles himself, he has a real arrogance about him which is all well and good when you can back that up with performances.
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No, hes a talent, why does everyone have this view, the lad is class!
Class? His Godfather is the only hint of class about him, and perhaps that explains his otherwise unjustified hype, arrogance and sense of entitlement. Just when you think he has made a sensible career move to knuckle down at Sussex he reappears as Surrey skipper! Personally I cheer every failure, and I expect there to be lots of them.
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I would really like to see RH-B do well. So many people in this country clamour to give youth a chance, then when we see it happen at Surrey the knives get drawn, Adams has picked a lot of young players (as have most of the counties) so it will take them a while to get going. The Surrey members need something to grumple at, what else do they have to talk about all day!!!!
It willk take him a few games to get used to captaining the team, but a big hundred would certainly really help him.
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Surrey other than Ramps, Davies and Hamilton Brown are pathetic, Jaques was on another level than all other Aussie openers, but he Was but isnt now. Rogers has overtaken him for me, and apart from Steve Law and Brad Hodge, Rogers is the most unlucky cricketer to play for Australia.
stuart law?
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I dont mean senior as in opening, there would have been more experienced seamers with him wouldnt there, people who have been there done that that can give invaluable bits of information. Please tell me you dont think hes done well since coming to surrey! If it wasnt for the names on the back of the shirts i wouldnt have known who was captain when i went! And his batting has been poor hasnt it. He was definately naive to take it tbh i reckon adams knew captaincy was the only way he could get his golden boy to surrey and he might strip him of it after a while now hes got the contract. we can but hope.
"The Surrey members need something to grumple at, what else do they have to talk about all day!!!!" I think weve good enough to bloody grumble at down here already, our utter failure over the last couple of seasons!!?!?!
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You could argue that the lad has put un-necessary pressure upon himself to perform, if he thinks he can back that up with performances then good on him, but he needs to show it, there is no reason why he cant. Personally, I would've stayed at Sussex in a successful team and go about working hard on my game to be the best cricketer possible then captaining a county, but we all have different ideas about cricket and isnt that the beauty of the game?
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what about Bresnan and Shahzad at Yorkshire?!
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Changed it now James, thanks for pointing that out. Bresnan and Shazhad are England material and are good foils with Shahzad being a slippery seamer and Bresnan a more work man like swing and seam bowler, what Gale was doing bowling Mcgrath though I have no idea!
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I agree to an extent, Personally even as a surrey fan i wouldnt have touched surrey with a bargepole if i planned to play for england, I think it would take someone special to perform well enough to catch the selectors eyes in the surrey side, Ramprakash doesnt get the support he needs half the time, so how did hamilton-brown think he would do well here, reckon he shot himself in the foot really but he wont be dropped by adams will he.
"but we all have different ideas about cricket and isnt that the beauty of the game?" one of the many beauties of the game id say :)
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I agree to an extent, Personally even as a surrey fan i wouldnt have touched surrey with a bargepole if i planned to play for england
You should have told your new 'keeper that before he signed for you guys.
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Money talks.
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I think Davies signed for the cash - the whole "I want to play for England" thing is for the media
Alex RP I totally agree with you on what you have said above.
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lol, its good for us, if he gets into england well have to find another keeper but luckily he seems to be behind kieswetter and prior in the pecking order.
I reckon part of Daviesthinking was that he has realised hes further from the england set-up now so he can practice his keeping on our wayward bowling and hell always get an opportunity for a nice long innings :D
thanks buzz :)
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surrey are certainly winning on the getting the cash in ... maybe this is what they really care about?
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surrey are certainly winning on the getting the cash in ... maybe this is what they really care about?
I would rather we broke even and were at least in the top division challlenging for the title than with pots of cash and a poor team. At least we have a good administrative set up...
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tbh i doubt it alvaro, adams maybe but not surrey as a whole, we have to good a history to just care about "getting the money in" i know the members dont think like that, go on 606 and see the amount of depressed surrey fans :(
well said buzz
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but isn't that the problem with all pro. cricket? The people/members care about winning and progressing and the administrators/ceos only care about the cash... :(
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if they only cared about the cash they wouldnt have bought davies or hamilton-brown or symonds would they?
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Thats true Alvaro, thats what teams are doing in test cricket, instead of providing a result they are looking to elongate the match to increase profits, shame really. Unfortunately the days of green tops all summer are gone, at least in pro cricket.
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to give the veneer of trying to improve?
i'm probably being too cynical :(
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most have to care about the cash as they run at a massive deficit - so it is understandable as they are about to go broke. But Surrey have a tremendous record and this team and last years team are terrible. It just shows what an amazing job Alex Furgason does in rebuilding his Man Utd team every 5 years. Surrey have singularly failed to do that. Adams is making the right noises and we have to give the players a few games to bed in, but we really seem to have made life hard for ourselves.
Symonds has been bought to fill the oval during the 2020 - again it is all about the cash
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lol probably, i suppose the white van parked over the road from your house is MI5 monitoring you ;)
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most have to care about the cash as they run at a massive deficit - so it is understandable as they are about to go broke. But Surrey have a tremendous record and this team and last years team are terrible. It just shows what an amazing job Alex Furgason does in rebuilding his Man Utd team every 5 years. Surrey have singularly failed to do that. Adams is making the right noises and we have to give the players a few games to bed in, but we really seem to have made life hard for ourselves.
Symonds has been bought to fill the oval during the 2020 - again it is all about the cash
County Cricket dominance tends to go like that - Yorkshire in the 20s/30s under Lord Hawke, that great Surrey side of the 50s with Surridge at the helm, Surrey in the 90s with Hollioake, then Sussex under Grizzly, now Durham but it is also SO jobs for the boys and benefit-based that county cricket teams have historically petered out with the great players getting old and selfish and hanging on for one more season, and along come another team to take over.
Then the broom comes out 'youth' they cry and therefore I think Surrey will come again, perhaps when smaller counties have gone bust and it's just them and the other counties lucky enough to have Test match grounds and membership of global franchises like Hants.
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This is getting ridiculous, Harinath is on 43 from 211 balls....
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its very annoying because we need someone to stay there but NOT THAT SLOWLY! >:( sussex wont bat if harinath has his way!
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still there though...if he gets 100 he's on course to face about 500 balls!
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its very annoying because we need someone to stay there but NOT THAT SLOWLY! >:( sussex wont bat if harinath has his way!
we wont lose then!!!
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Batty is out#!
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come on schofield lets have another century! :(
"we wont lose then!!!"
but then harinath will always bat like this!! >:(
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Martin-Jenkins, what a bowler! So slow and effective....like David Masters!
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ian bell had 50 off 303 balls once, harinath needs to cool down, hes going like a train!
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ian bell had 50 off 303 balls once
I take it he was batting left handed too....
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how can you say that jeet? rogers is easily the most effective overseas player in england right now and has been for that past couple of seasons, and yet also holds his form for victoria, he performs to a high level all around the world in all formats and he would have been successful at test level given the chance.
anyway, this isnt a thread about rogers, i would like to know peoples opinions on the future of english seam bowling... what are you views on this?
Woakes looks pretty handy, as does Finn.
Not a fan of Bresnan or Shahzad.
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yeah, im not a fan of shahzad but bresnan impressed me in bangladesh
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. Rogers has overtaken him for me, and apart from Stuart Law and Brad Hodge, Rogers is the most unlucky cricketer to play for Australia.
pretty sure that title belongs to stuart magill!
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yeah, im not a fan of shahzad but bresnan impressed me in bangladesh
Bresnan impressed me with his stamina, but I don't think he'll trouble the best batsmen. He doesn't really swing/seam it and is a hit the wicket bowler.
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Wasnt aware of this Punter, always seems a decent bloke when I've spoken to him and not heard any problems from friends who train with him daily.
My quote is from someone in the WA squad when he left to Victoria so I feel it's reasonably well informed.
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Im goin to watch lancs tommorow so ill give you the low down on the seamers
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Not sure it is a morning to be a batsman - wickets are falling all over the place...
http://www.cricinfo.com/countycricket2010/engine/current/match/scores/county.html
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Notts are doing the business though, 45 runs this morning for the loss of one wicket! But otherwise I agree, it's a tricky morning, clearly some overcast, volcanic ash clouds covering the grounds!
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That ash is clearly deadly for any batsman! Sussex are storming along, 6.3 overs - 1/1, Harinath-esque....
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Boycott would be proud :D