Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: procricket on January 04, 2011, 09:20:36 PM
-
Can i have the top model and the prices after the vat hike please
SORRY BATS
SAF
BLUEROOM £200 4 shapes to choose from....or £240 for a workshop visit customization
HELL 4 LEATHER
AYRTEK £200 2 different profiles available
BULLDOG
VANTAGE
ASAD OWN BRAND
BLACKCAT
LEKKA £150 for a stock shape bat or £165 for a custom made Uk bat
TALISMAN
-
Dave......prices of what? anything specific?
-
Tom, pardon me, but £200 for raw Ayrtek Elite with Ti..
-
Yes mate....they are individually hand laid and actually made of carbon fibre so price has to reflect this. If Albion can sell their plastic helmet at £110 then true carbon fibre has a higher price.
-
Bats please
-
£200 for forum members as a VAT registered company we have to increase our price
-
is that custom made Tom to your own spec or a standard shape
-
Will be doing a couple of different profiles shortly, but wont be a custom bat as such just to your desired weight and grain structure depending on what we have in stock
-
4 models to choose from
New wave
Wipe out
Swell
And now the prototype
Prices for top of the range which is the mp+1 is £200
But If none of those fit your bill (most of the time they tend to fulfill the requirements of players as weight and grains can be requested) and you want a fully custom professional service with a workshop visit choice of clefts and be there with Rob to watch him make it that is now £240
-
That sounds like a very good deal, especially with M&H charging £330+
-
That sounds like a very good deal
Was £180 last year.
-
Yes did Roco not get his done for 180 with the visit thrown in have they gone up £60 in a day
-
Yikes, thats a bit more than 2.5%
-
& this increase of willow price that's been mentioned. Must of been 6+ years ago.
-
Come on fella wait for Liam to reply before all this
-
Think the willow people have used this as anexcuse to increase prices a bit further as well....know our bat prices went up as of today by 10%
-
The custom service last year was priced at £220 but The lads that got them had chosen a practically finished cleft like I did rather than a raw one hence the lower price as it was less man hours for rob. Just a finishing job rather than a fully customised service. I'm sure the lads will back this up. Had we all chosen a raw cleft or made him chop one down from a log it would have been the £220 price. The price I was quoted originally was £220 but rob did mine and simmys at £180 seen as we both purchased onthe same day. Anyway to sum up the price on paper has increased by £20 same as the mp+1.
-
Christ I babbled on a bit there haha
-
Think the willow people have used this as anexcuse to increase prices a bit further as well....
That's what I was trying to say. How come they've increased there prices so much on trees planted x amount of years ago. Supply and demand I suppose.
-
Christ I babbled on a bit there haha
The bats are worth the babble!!
-
Yeah I think a lot of podshavers are a bit mad with the suppliers over it. When I heard it was going up I wasn't expecting a big jump like some have managed to get away with.
Oh yeah definitely. I woudnt be bat babbling if the bats were bab :)
-
The big willow merchants have you by the balls ,the big trees with top willow are getting harder to find ,so if you want a top grade cleft unfortunatly you have to pay for it.Also things like the vat going up increases there diesel prices for haulage etc ,knock effect for everything . Wrights sell about 300,000 clefts a year worldwide
-
diesel is £1.33 down here at the moment!!! added nearly £15 a tank full to fill up my car :(
-
When you see that figure 300,000 you think god that's a lot but to put it into perspective with the amount of bats that get made (in the uk alone) it really isn't much at all
-
monopoly springs to mind...if u control that much willow u can almost dictate a price and people have to pay it if they want it
-
something like 90% off that goes to asia :(
-
supply and demand , wrights supply in my opinion the best and lightest clefts around they have there drying spot on .
-
I tried ordering some willow from wrights a few back just before xmas i spoke at length with jeremy ruggles he told me the minimum order quantity was 50 clefts . . . I thought about it then decided to go ahead with the minimum order. A couple of days later i got an e mail from him saying that the minimum order had gone up to 200 and Wrights dont like dealing with small operations. To me i find it shocking as their attitude will be the death of small 'boutique' brands
-
I tried ordering some willow from wrights a few back just before xmas i spoke at length with jeremy ruggles he told me the minimum order quantity was 50 clefts . . . I thought about it then decided to go ahead with the minimum order. A couple of days later i got an e mail from him saying that the minimum order had gone up to 200 and Wrights dont like dealing with small operations. To me i find it shocking as their attitude will be the death of small 'boutique' brands
200 clefts is minimum , and how much are grade one clefts cost to buy from them ?
that will really effect up and coming bat makers :(
-
The outlook for aspiring bat makers looks grim :(
-
I have enquired as well got a similar response did you get the you must buy so many of grade xxxxxx and so many of grade xxxxx and you can not have all grade xxxxx
I think i right in saying a grade 2 is around 30 pound or was
-
The orders are for mixed grades of cleft so grade 1,2,3 etc. Thats exactly my point and i expressed my feelings to jeremy and he basically said to buy in from abroad. . . . . . . Go figure
-
The outlook for aspiring bat makers looks grim :(
Indeed it does Liam . . . Indeed it does
-
it is a huge outlay every time you need clefts,it took me 3 yrs to get an account with them.Unfortunatly they can change the rules when they like
-
May i ask Matt has the price of your clefts gone up....
-
yes as of ist jan about 8-10 % i think
-
it is a huge outlay every time you need clefts,it took me 3 yrs to get an account with them.Unfortunatly they can change the rules when they like
Thats s*it!! Never realised there would be so many barriers . . . .
-
When I was there I was never quoted £220 for this cleft or £180 for this one he got about 15 down some finished some part shaped some basically just handled and was told any of them was £180 unless I got the wrong end of the stick
-
I've messaged you roco mate. Tried to get an explanation from
Rob last night about the actual prices for 2010 and the list price was £220. This is what I was quoted before going down but I paid £180 like the other lads on here. Thos price seemed to stick Whenever anyone has requested a bat since the section opened. When I was there the explanation for the lower price was because simmy also bought a bat and we had chosen almost finished clefts.
Wether rob had decided to charge the £180 overall until January 11 I am unsure, or wether he thought it was a good price for forum members, its a bit of a mystery at present but I will certainly clear this up.
-
That's fine he most likely forgot as it seemed like he loved what he does so much he prob gets so involved he just went with the standard price plus possibly kept it at £180 till the increase then start with a fresh slate like you said
-
As soon as he gets in touch I will clear it all up.
My apologies
-
Right to clear this up the Prices were decided 2010 at £180 stock and £220 for the custom Service. I requested a visit when the original price was still in place. Rob afterwards decided to charge a set £180.
The forum attracted a lot of attention and Rob thought it was a very competitive price for the quality of bats. To sum up the list price was £220 and would have been had Rob not decided to drop it himself. Similar to Matts offer with H4L but nothing official was ever mentioned.
Hope that clears things up and sorry for any confusion caused
-
Standard Lekka bat is £150 plus postage
James is currently offering a Special Price for Lekka Custom made bats. £165 Inc Postage within UK
Please contact Lekkasport@gmail.com to discuss your specifications.
-
I tried ordering some willow from wrights a few back just before xmas i spoke at length with jeremy ruggles he told me the minimum order quantity was 50 clefts . . . I thought about it then decided to go ahead with the minimum order. A couple of days later i got an e mail from him saying that the minimum order had gone up to 200 and Wrights dont like dealing with small operations. To me i find it shocking as their attitude will be the death of small 'boutique' brands
Wrights are running a business to be honest and from what I have heard they manage to easily sell everything they have so its pretty much tough luck to any small batmakers
-
Yeah i realise they are running a business pal im glad you were here to tell us! But if you take time to read the posts rather than posting useless information then you would realise its UK companies that are at risk especially smaller start up companies which not only puts traditional methods of bat making at risk but the business as a whole in this country. But if your happy to buy indian made imported bats you carry on pal
-
Never looked into it myself but are there not other suppliers of willow or is it wrights or nothing?
-
Never looked into it myself but are there not other suppliers of willow or is it wrights or nothing?
If you can find him and no one else can help, maybe you can call... the Pod Father...
Failing that, I think there is a firm call Anglian as well who sell willow, but I know nothing about them.
-
If forum members or guests require clefts please contact James at Lekka lekkasport@gmail.com
Lekka has its own English Willow Plantation and can provide clefts.
Regards
Kevin
-
There is also Kippax. As far as I understand it, they grow their own willow so you may be able to get in contact with them and get hold of a cleft or two.
-
A grade 1 willow cleft with the waxing is currently cost £60 pound
-
Yeah there are few suppliers of willow im in touch with still waiting for them to come to fruition and hoping they are a little more approachable than wrights! Kev could you pm me with details prices etc?
-
Yes Kev could you get James to pm me ref clefts and part mades and stuff please
-
So are small batmakers expected to buy their clefts from the bigger suppliers if they can't get an account? I'd thought about making more over the summer as my hobby grows but it's clearly a massive financial commitment.
If I want to make a bat I buy a cleft from Matt (H4L) because I can't afford to buy 50+ at a time nor do I have a press or other machinary, if I wanted to start making more I'd have to buy 200+. How much would that be?
-
If there enough interest why not make a bat co op here and we start a kartel
-
I'm going to plant some trees and start my own monopoly!
I'll be like Robin Hood of the willow world!
-
A grade 1 willow cleft with the waxing is currently cost £60 pound
From whom!?
-
If there enough interest why not make a bat co op here and we start a kartel
Sounds quite a good suggestion Dave. I'm sure there are enough budding batmakers on here to buy 200 clefts in a co-op from Wrights! :)
-
Sorry Tom i will not reveal my source and it not from my usual source HP
You saying that is wrong???
-
If there enough interest why not make a bat co op here and we start a kartel
Thats a good idea mate , im sure there would be a few of us on here willing to do that :D
-
It's wrong. They're a fair bit less.
-
Logistically, unless someone has a press which people know how to use there is little point in buying 10 clefts, let alone 200...
-
Yes 48 pound for the cleft add vat and 2 pound fifty for the wax
Go on then Tom tell us the price if you would......
-
I wonder what the mark up off bats is after labour and costs
-
Well VAT registered companies really only work in net terms.
From memory it's about £40?
-
2 pound fifty for the wax
Wax??????
-
Both ends are waxed to prevent splitting apparently ???
-
Both ends are waxed to prevent splitting
If I could put my head in my hands on the web in a emoitcon I would...
I really hope no one said cleft + cost of wax....
-
apparently they charge for the wax Andy surely if you have a account at JS Wrights you will know?????
-
apparently they charge for the wax Andy surely if you have a account at JS Wrights you will know?????
Oh I see so you asked for green willow [not dried] I didn't realise that!!!!
actually before I get really upset the wax ending is there for green to dried willow process.... You don't have to pay for wax!!!! That is just stupid
In fact from the "EX Works prices list" from JS Wrights
All prices inclusive of waxing and drying.
A 2% discount is offered for payment within 7 days from date of invoice.
A Waste Recycling Levy of £0.10 per cleft will be charged as a separate item.
-
I did not ask for anything mate it from a bloke going down there picking up a load of clefts this month
Maybe i miss heard and i guess iam stupid
-
I didnt say you were stupid Dave... maybe that was a bit harsh... If you think about it if you got sent a load or clefts that had split or not dried correctly because they weren't wax ended would you pay for them!!!! Nope! The unit cost is per cleft per grade for dried willow, it isnt a Cleft cost plus cost of waxing, the whole process is all incorporated in the cost.
Whoever your mate is don't let him charge you for the cleft + wax
-
I'm going to scour the countryside for a rogue willow set and then setup "JS Beach & Sons".
Surely companies like Newbery can provide clefts on to smaller manufacturers if they don;t have and account or machinery?
-
No but they will finish them for you and press them
Well VAT registered companies really only work in net terms.
From memory it's about £40?
Tom
Is it not a bit of a own goal admitting paying around 40 pound for a cleft then selling some for 270 plus?????????
-
Everything gets marked up pro cricket otherwise no-one would make any money on anything!
-
I know well about mark ups it just refreshing when somebody actually admits it
Back on topic anybody know the prices of some of the others not yet up
-
Your right though bang out of order charging £270 for a bat when the Clefts only cost £40
Especially as Tools,Labour,Utilities Tax etc all come free
Tom I'm disgusted!! ;) ;)
-
Following on from what Frandonegan said,
Just remember the time cost to make a bat should be considered - If a lawyer charges an hourly rate of typically around £250 - the fact that a bat maker typically charges around £80 per hour to make a bat is not unreasonable - plus a bat gives a lot more pleasure than a lawyer (unless you are dating or married to one...! ;))
-
Following on from what Frandonegan said,
Just remember the time cost to make a bat should be considered - If a lawyer charges an hourly rate of typically around £250 - the fact that a bat maker typically charges around £80 per hour to make a bat is not unreasonable - plus a bat gives a lot more pleasure than a lawyer (unless you are dating or married to one...! ;))
Brilliant!
-
Buzz
All i saying and being a advocate of James Laver work but not the prices in the past the more you look into it the more you start thinking
All i saying and this is not aimed at Tom but how come bat a cost so much yet bat b cost 100 pound cheaper yet is made by the same grade of wood from the same Timber yard.
I understand overheads and other out going ie players fee and such as overheads
-
I guess their only worth what people are prepared to pay for them.
-
Buzz
All i saying and being a advocate of James Laver work but not the prices in the past the more you look into it the more you start thinking
All i saying and this is not aimed at Tom but how come bat a cost so much yet bat b cost 100 pound cheaper yet is made by the same grade of wood from the same Timber yard.
I understand overheads and other out going ie players fee and such
Probably the same reason why the Fred Perry plimsoles I got the other day can be £45 but I saw a pair almost identical for £15
-
big companys charge big money because of the marketing they need to pay for and the amount of workforce invloved!
for instance puma...
when rob pack is making bats for puma the top end bats retail at £280
when rob can produce the 100% same bat as a blueroom and sell it for £180 as well as making him self a profit
so your paying an extra 100 just for the name
-
And there my point exactly Simmy lad
I mean some of the big brands who the hell are they who makes there bats
I guess that my point the further you look into things and get a greater understanding of things the greater you see some of the rubbish the bigger brand try to con you out of your hard earned reddies.....
My point was after a talk with Pete Hosk the more you delv into things the harder it is to make a choice of what bat to buy because unlike most things THE PRICE OF A CRICKET BAT DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE QUALITY AT ALL
No wonder more and more Indian Made bats are sold in the Uk because the bigger brands in my eyes are ripping people off
Somebody asked me the other week why i only use smaller brands because they have smaller prices i told them...
-
Rob doesn't sell to a retailer, he sells direct to the consumer. That's a huge proportion of the RRP dropped straight away
-
never thought of that tom..
we see bats in shops at £280+
but guess thats because the shop has to make money as well as the company.
but its like anything in the world
brand names cost more than something else.
a tshirt will cost 2 quid to make but because it has a fancy logo on it they can charge 40 quid.
thats not fair but yet no body moans about that.
its the same with cricket bats
-
Ok then Tom a direct question
Why should i spend £270 pound on one of your bats when i can get a custom made one for £180 to my spec in the same grade of wood
Both cost the same from the supplier
So if were led to think it were paying the rest for some fancy stickers
-
Dave the easy answer is because you like the brand and want the uniqueness of the product.
In your case you aren't that keen so go elsewhere. You are also aware of the posibilities of buying a bat direct from a smaller company, so factor that into your consideration, not everyone is that luckey
-
Buzz
All i saying and being a advocate of James Laver work but not the prices in the past the more you look into it the more you start thinking
All i saying and this is not aimed at Tom but how come bat a cost so much yet bat b cost 100 pound cheaper yet is made by the same grade of wood from the same Timber yard.
I understand overheads and other out going ie players fee and such as overheads
As Buzz says, it's basic accounting...
I suspect the best comparison you can make is M&H and Laver. Both considered top quality in their countries, and priced accordingly in their local currency. To us here, the M&H is cheaper because of the exchange rate, but the actual value of the currency in the producer's pocket is approximately the same in its buying power locally.
Equally, as described, if you pay KP, Bell and a.n.other to play with your kit then your marketing budget and other people cost is huge... but that's already been covered.
You could also ask why the top grade willow bats cost more than the lower grade willow bats. The batmaking costs are the same, but is there really (taking the GN Oblivion as an example) £100 difference between a grade 2 and top grade willow? No, but people will pay more for the perceived rarity of the higher quality goods. Supply and demand at work.
-
Would you pay your neibour or someone else £2 to cut your hair just because they had a pair of siscors!!
If you get my drift
-
The market though must be getting saturated though which is a good thing by littler brands.
A good topic i not having a go at anybody quality here it just i am looking for a bat and never rely thought about it till now cost and such must be the economy
-
This is something I have always questioned about GM is how they can charge so much for what is effectivley a "Machined Bat" I can understand paying a premium to the likes of the guys on here for a hand crafted piece of workmanship. But at the rate in which GM can churn out a computer aided creation and the amount they sell (covering one would think the initial outlay of the machines) it beggars belief really.
also for English skilled labour for something that is bespoke (which all handcrafted bats should be considered as) £80 an hour incl Vat is actually a very good rate.
-
Two things - I kind of estimated the £80 per hour, so please don't use this as gospel
secondly you have to pay for the machines that make the bats somehow...!
-
It's also not a case of whacking a cleft onto the machine, and out pops a bat. The machine gives the basic shape, but the bats are hand finished.
-
My point comes here
Ayrtek helmets
Best on the market with evidence to back it up science and weight you pay for what you get the best
Remfry
Best on the market NO....I have them yes because i followed a trend but to be honest you can get the same protection but not at that weight and size(bulkiness)
Bats
There is no governance i find in terms of price as the other products are graded on quality and bar the bespoke stuff like Remfry and such all the softs and helmets are prices all similar whilst the bat pricing seems so far and wide and it feels like you do not quite get what you paid for.....(please note this is not aimed at one individual company but the market in general)
-
I only took it as an estimate Buzz Definately wont be holding you to it!!
I do say in my post that the initial outlay one would have thought would have been covered resonably quickly (usually part of the business plan to purchase large pieces of kit) and seeing as GM have had this process of bat making in place for a while now you'd have thought it would have shown in the prices being charged?
Bear in mind that these machines are put in to ultimately save labour and other overheads.
-
It's also not a case of whacking a cleft onto the machine, and out pops a bat. The machine gives the basic shape, but the bats are hand finished.
Again I'm not aluding to that either but the skill level and time costs involved are hugely less than a fully hand made bat, thats the idea of having a semi automated process
-
Alot of people will machine prep their bats very very few completely hande make from start to finish as the time it takes they will not make much profit plus the gm bats are all still hand finished so still some craftsmanship in them
-
I have always rated the smaller brands and foreign bats as you are getting the same product - a willow bat. Grade 1 generally I go for.
I am not paying an extra £200 to line kp or some other pros pockets or pay the marketing costs.
However, some people will use what they see on the tv, it's the same in many sports.
People spend £60 on Phil Taylor darts because of his endorsement, there no better than 95% tungsten darts that sell for £10.
It's all marketing and advertising an fashionable trends.
-
of course most are machine made i wonder how at the Chalet they produce so many bats a year surely not all by hand
-
I would be very interested to know if the chalet have any connections with an Indian manufacturer, such as BAS for example.
-
Alot of people will machine prep their bats very very few completely hande make from start to finish as the time it takes they will not make much profit plus the gm bats are all still hand finished so still some craftsmanship in them
Again I'm not disputing this either However Computer aided machine manufacture is very diferent to the machines used in the small workshops around the country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11824293
You would be hard pressed to find these machines at SAF or H4L
-
well work out how many bats come out of the chalet not just newbery bloody hell if they do not use a machine to prep they must have 100 of batmakers there.
I think it naive to think most bats are all handmade.....
There will not be many totally handmade bats around
-
the chalet have cnc machines
hence why a tim keeleys bats are expensive . as he wont make alot of the bats him self from scratch. thats y when he does u pay for the privalage
-
I only took it as an estimate Buzz Definately wont be holding you to it!!
I do say in my post that the initial outlay one would have thought would have been covered resonably quickly (usually part of the business plan to purchase large pieces of kit) and seeing as GM have had this process of bat making in place for a while now you'd have thought it would have shown in the prices being charged?
Bear in mind that these machines are put in to ultimately save labour and other overheads.
Bearing in mind that you generally aren't in business to make a loss, and the Grays, who are by all accounts a reasonably large batmaker, only make a profit of £780,000 across all their sporting brands, then you start to see why the prices are where they are.
It's simply not a terribly profitable industry, and even with the CNC machining, you have a very large capital outlay and not a large profit margin. The business plan on those machines that GM use will see the capital outlay recovered over 5-10 years and although it will reduce labour overheads, it still hits the bottom line somehow. Any large manufacturer (Newb, Hunts, GM, GN) will be doing some level of machine based preparation.
So where does this leave us? Well, it seems that the reality is, as Dave says, that price doesn't guarantee you quality, but equally, neither does brand. Also that direct sales reduces purchase price, but as AndySAF has discovered, managing the business on your own with the publicity that has been endowed from things such as AOC testing requires you to grow your team to account for it, and that also comes at some form of cost.
Ultimately batmaking is a business that sells a product and as with all manufacturing industries, unless that product makes a profit, there is little point in continuing.
-
well work out how many bats come out of the chalet not just newbery bloody hell if they do not use a machine to prep they must have 100 of batmakers there.
I think it naive to think most bats are all handmade.....
There will not be many totally handmade bats around
Mate seriously I'm not being niave I'm just saying that GM take out the majority of the shaping out of the "Hands" of their labour force thus reducing the time it takes for them to make the bats after all it is the "By hand" portion of the manufacture that takes the most amount of time/labour.
So by having something made on a smaller scale where the majority of the shaping work is done in the traditional way we as a consumer pay a premium (and I for one am happy with that)
All I was getting at was that it had crossed my mind that GM "could have" been passing this onto the consumer in much the same way that having bats in india reduces the cost of a finished bat (sometimes) :-)
Now back of too playing with my trains and vroom vrooms while eating my gob stoppers!! (bit sad at 29 eh)
-
Even Tim machine shapes bats as it's quicker but the key to a good bat is the pressing as many have said I would not pay more for a bat that has been hand made from start to finish than a bat that has been machine shaped then hand finished but some would but who out of the bat makers that you know completly hand make bats from a raw cleft to finished article
-
The gm cnc is bigger than tims will be but it creates more complex shapes and the workforce that was doing the shaping can now go on the hand finishing and quality control side so you may be getting a better product that way
-
Look Im sorry I will never comment on GM again!! ;)
I would always prefer to have a lovingly made hand pressed shaped CNC'd Bat from a smaller manufacturer.
Thats why I discovered this site its why I enjoy the debates on here and it's why ultimately I spoke up.
"Head fully under the parapit once more!"
-
i agree with your point (iam 32 today by the way )
-
I myself prefer small brands as you can see in my kit but seemed like you were knocking the machine side of it which alot of brands do but looking back I may have got the wrong end of the stick so I appologise
-
Nope Definately Wasnt knocking anything GM do I'm in the Pharma industry and fully appreciate automated machinery.
P.S Happy Birthday Pro Cricket!!
-
On a not entirely related point, itæa always surprised me that nobody ever invented a machine to analyise a bats rebound qualities, if guess because they might be worried that their product would come off second best.
-
Anyone heard of this company? I know of JS Wright's and Anglian but I've only just noticed the bit where they mention cricket bats.
http://www.essexwillow.co.uk/
-
Yes mate but they dont supply clefts, just willow trees
-
Good spot beach
Has anybody hered of GREEN'S willow suppliers
-
GR Green also supply clefts - need to speak to Guy Foskett.
PM me for details
-
On a not entirely related point, itæa always surprised me that nobody ever invented a machine to analyise a bats rebound qualities, if guess because they might be worried that their product would come off second best.
Kulli - GM hired a graduate to research this for 2 years before they came up with their DXM range and their new machine. They believe they know the level of moisture content that is required to produce the best rebound performance. They have upgraded their kiln drying process as a result.