Topic: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft?? (Read 4281 times)

Buzz · « **on:** September 05, 2011, 01:52:54 PM »

Here is a little question for bat shavers...

When you receive a pressed and handled cleft for shaping, what is the best way of ensuring the bat shape maximises the performance of the willow. Is it by choosing the shape and start shaving, or by testing the willow finding the most responsive bit and then shaving accordingly.

If I were making a bat I would get a mallet and test the unshaped, but pressed cleft and mark on it where the best rebound of the bat was and make that the �middle� and then shape the bat accordingly. Is the middle a movable feast? And is this a reasonable approach for mass production (almost certainly not!)

But this seems totally the wrong way around � most people when making a bat choose a shape and go from there � making the assumption that the middle will effectively be where the largest bit of wood was. Given that CNC machines are used to manufacture many bats, it would be interesting to know if the shape of the bat was made to the willow or the willow made to the shape desired.

I hope that makes sense � in this case I have never held or tested a raw cleft � let alone tried to make a bat so am really pretty limited in my knowledge here. (which is why I am asking!!)

I should caveat myself by saying i won't be making any bats myself soon either...!

Red Ink Cricket · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:06:38 PM »

interesting question Buzz.

im no way near even considering myself a bat maker( lucky to be called a bat shaper) but when ive had a variety of part mades and a variety of grades i always give them a hit first to see how good they are. All of them have been great ( were talking 10-15 clefts and all due to very good pressing) I have tended to shape them based on what i fancy at the time or who im making them for. I have no idea if thats the right way or not but they have all turned out pretty well if i do say so myself ( again due to the pressing and some concaving to get the pick up good)
From the ones i have hit i would guess without measuring that the best rebound were all in a similar position. slight variations but pretty much there or thereabouts. Id be interested to see if anyone has found any major movements in where the best rebound has been.

you should definately give bat shaping a go.

Buzz · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:19:12 PM »

I would have thought that the art of making a bat is creating a shape that maximises the middle area post pressing - I think if you add in can you press a bat to make the "middle" in different places life would get way too complicated - hence why I have started with a pressed and handled - but unshaped - cleft...

Lekka Global Alliance · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:38:06 PM »

No disrespect when I say this but a handled cleft gives the game away as the hard work has already been done by your chosen supplier.

I received some part mades a few years back here in Thailand and the chap up the road copied a profile I had in stock and turned out some lovely bats (granted they were not AOC Award Winning as they had not started that sharad yet).

Bottom line was he made a cricket bat from a part made and had never seen the game in his life only the cricket kit I have here. People that have a feel for wood just have a feel for wood. All bats were sold with nice labels and no one had a clue they were made in Thailand !!!

So all in all this bat making skill is a load of ballcocks (within reason) , with all the machinery available now it's just a hobby for some and those that choose to work the hours make a living out of it.

Buzz · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:58:26 PM »

James - I appreciate that the press is king, but saying anyone with a feel for wood can make a bat doesn't answer the question - which is very much about making the best of what you have with the willow - is it possible to have a bat which has been pressed to have a naturally low middle, but you try to make it into a bat with a high middle - how will that effect the performance - and if it doesn't then the pick up will be loads better...

Lekka Global Alliance · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:11:39 PM »

If the cleft has been naturally pressed to produce a low middle then that is what the supplier feels is the best way of getting the most out of a cleft.

The bat makers try and confuse you guys , if a pro's name is mentioned the middle is LONG and if paddy down the pub who plays some Taverners cricket on a Friday evening uses the same bat it's a PLANK !

I'm sure high quality cabinet makers could well push a low middle up a tad but not to the extent you may wish for.

Johnny · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:15:21 PM »

James, you are spieling this out 2nd hand though - by your own admission you don't actually make bats - Buzz question is directed by those that do, so I reckon it's best actually letting that select group of people answer the question (maybe you could refer your Thai friend to the forum and he could supply a 1st hand account)

tim2000s · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:17:34 PM »

Quote from: Buzz on September 05, 2011, 02:58:26 PM

James - I appreciate that the press is king, but saying anyone with a feel for wood can make a bat doesn't answer the question - which is very much about making the best of what you have with the willow - is it possible to have a bat which has been pressed to have a naturally low middle, but you try to make it into a bat with a high middle - how will that effect the performance - and if it doesn't then the pick up will be loads better...

So here's an interesting addendum to the question. If pressing is uniform across the length of the blade, then the CoR should be constant across that length. The middle is a function of the MMI, which in turn is a function of the position of mass, and as James Laver has done with his Legend, the distribution of mass is elongated to increase the middle size. I can't imagine that there would be significantly different variation in the mass of the wood over the pressed area of the blade in order for it to make a difference on the position of the middle? Or have I got my understanding of the principles confused?

Buzz · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:29:09 PM »

Tim - effectively I have no idea about what you are talking about, but yes i think we are moving along the same lines.
It is just I have three or four bats at home with the major mass of wood in different places and the pick up is different, but realistically the position of the middle of the bat isn't massively different - however in one bat the bulk of wood is higher meaning that the pick up is better and that I have more weight for my money... So the question is therefore now split I suppose - when the bat is pressed, is it pressed uniformly throughout the blade or not - then does the spine height across the blade change the position of the middle.

Lekka Global Alliance · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:30:40 PM »

@ Tim , base pressing is uniform but not for the final pressings.

tim2000s · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:38:58 PM »

Quote from: Lekka Global Alliance on September 05, 2011, 03:30:40 PM

@ Tim , base pressing is uniform but not for the final pressings.

But doesn't that mean that the final pressing takes place dependent on the shape of the underlying bat?

Lekka Global Alliance · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:44:04 PM »

@ Tim (sorry for the @ as the quote function is also knackered) here on my ISP.

The final pressing will take place as you say but will also be in the capable hands of the presser who should again know how to get the best out of the selected cleft that has been shaped based on the specs of the started quality of that cleft.

Buzz · « **Reply #12 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:52:21 PM »

All of which is fine - but if you have a part made bat - does where the highest point of the spine have an impact on where the middle is?

Lekka Global Alliance · « **Reply #13 on:** September 05, 2011, 04:05:22 PM »

The highest point will be a guide for sure. Again the quality of the bat maker will make the most of it for the requested specs (within reason of course).

Buzz · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2011, 05:36:22 PM »

has anyone got any first hand experience on this?
I'm really interested in peoples experiences

Author Topic: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft?? (Read 4281 times)

Buzz

finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Red Ink Cricket

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Buzz

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Lekka Global Alliance

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Buzz

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Lekka Global Alliance

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Johnny

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

tim2000s

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Buzz

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Lekka Global Alliance

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

tim2000s

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Lekka Global Alliance

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Buzz

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Lekka Global Alliance

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??

Buzz

Re: finding the best place for the middle in a cleft??