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Author Topic: The Myth of Performance Willow  (Read 16584 times)

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Six Sixes Cricket

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2012, 03:41:35 PM »

Sorry I miss understood. So which company's can we trust to sell us low grade performance bats. Well I got a "performance" bat from laver. Only thing is its not ugly, which strangely enough dissapointed me.

tim2000s

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2012, 04:12:01 PM »


In simple terms, Yes. It will increase mass and stiffness which if both bats are pressed the same will lead to an increase in rebound.

I'm calling you out on that one Mike. The mass of the bat is the same, regardless of size. If it has a mass of 2lb9oz, the only way that the low density bat will have more mass than the other is if you glue more wood on it.

Stiffness is a function of the willow structure. If you have low density willow then the cells that make up the willow are larger/the material making them up is further apart, so the air that has replaced the liquid in the drying process makes up more of the willow.

Is it possible that the reason a low density willow performs better for the weight is actually down to the additional air in the structure?
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100 not out

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »

Does the quality of a ball affect the performance of a bat. A top quality bat made for an international cricketer made to play against test match quality balls, would it play the same against a 3.99 sports direct bat breaker.? I don't think so.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 05:17:43 PM by 100 not out »
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norbs

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2012, 05:29:10 PM »

Love this topic makes.for interesting reading, well done Talisman

shentser

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2012, 05:43:21 PM »

Does the quality of a ball affect the performance of a bat. A top quality bat made for an international cricketer made to play against test match quality balls, would it play the same against a 3.99 sports direct bat breaker.? I don't think so.

Good point - it certainly doesnt make the same sound

Also can you always tell how good a bat is from the initial test with the mallet ?  I sold a bat on very cheaply to a pal as it felt a bit dead for its size - as if it was overpressed and hard ?
A few months later however its going like a rocket as it is now broken in and the face feels as though it has softened up - and it now makes a great sound off the mallet.
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Talisman

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2012, 05:43:46 PM »

Tim, I meant volume.
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Tom

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2012, 05:48:46 PM »

So how do SG grade their willow?
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SkipperJ

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2012, 05:56:59 PM »

I'm calling you out on that one Mike. The mass of the bat is the same, regardless of size. If it has a mass of 2lb9oz, the only way that the low density bat will have more mass than the other is if you glue more wood on it.

Stiffness is a function of the willow structure. If you have low density willow then the cells that make up the willow are larger/the material making them up is further apart, so the air that has replaced the liquid in the drying process makes up more of the willow.

Is it possible that the reason a low density willow performs better for the weight is actually down to the additional air in the structure?

Don't know about the rest of you, but my head is spinning with all these terms being bandied around - density, mass, volume, weight.

Let's do a quick recap of the basic physics:
 
1. Density = Mass / Volume
2. Weight = Mass x gravity   i.e m*g
When we say a bat *weighs* 2lb 9 oz, that's really the mass (not weight)

Anywho, gravity being a constant on planet earth, mass and weight could be used interchangeably for the purposes of this discussion (since greater mass means greater weight, g being constant)

If mass (or weight) of two bats is the same, say 2lb 9oz, a low density bat must have greater volume.
From #1

  Volume = Mass / Density   -> lower density means higher volume, mass remaining constant.

Therefore a low density bat will look bigger (edges, spine, everything) for two bats with the same *shape* i.e. profile

I agree with Tim - the lower density bat just has bigger volume, mass of wood doesn't change. The difference in volume between the bats is made up by air. As an extreme analogy, think of low density willow as a block of sponge vs. a solid block of cheese. If they both weighed the same, the sponge would have more volume due to all the air pockets in it.

I partially agree with Mike. If both bats are pressed the same, the lower density one will have more stiffness and more rebound. For the same thickness of the hard top surface, there's probably more "layers" of cells comprising the pressed surface in the low density bat.

My theory (and this is just a theory) is that the airpockets create a spring effect. At a microscopic level they are able to compress when the ball hits and then spring back to their original size.  This elastic effect probably wears off after repeated use, i.e. the cell walls of wood lose their ability to spring back after repeated compression, the air pockets eventually collapse, and the bat loses its rebound.

Thought I'd be one of the few brave souls to stick out their necks on this topic. Would love to hear what forum experts think about this. Feel free to debunk my theory :) although I don't think it is completely implausible. I'm not a batmaker, just a guy crazy about bats and cricket in general. I do have a graduate degree in Mechanical Engg, and have a technical background in the mechanical behavior of materials...
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SkipperJ

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2012, 06:03:24 PM »

Having spent much time watching a very well respected brand grade it went something along the lines of provisionally marking out grades based of looks, weight would then lead to bats being swapped a little, heavier going down and lighter coming up but only ever one grade. Finally every bat was hit with a mallet and nothing was ever upgraded but some is the highest bracket could drop to the bottom one. Why? well because to be a top model it needed to look and play the part so everyone spending a lot of money was happy, but in the middle you could get something that didn't quite look the part but played as well as the top one. In the bottom grade it might look good or bad but did not quite ever play as well as the other 2 grades...

This!!! Years of bat willow wisdom condensed into a few lines. I am going to print this out and put it up on my wall, so I don't forget.

This is gold Jerry, GOLD!!  (Seinfeld anyone?)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:05:00 PM by SkipperJ »
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norbs

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2012, 06:51:26 PM »

So how do SG grade their willow?

In my opinion I dont think anyone cares about SG on here!

junter97

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2012, 07:03:39 PM »

In my opinion I dont think anyone cares about SG on here!
Haha :D to be honest, I don't either!
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thedon

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2012, 07:09:53 PM »

I do!!!! Lol
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Talisman

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2012, 07:33:58 PM »

Further to this, a bat is pressed, knocked in and played with. Each action compresses the face and it never decompresses. Bats never open up, they firm up. An overpressed bat stays hard and will only get harder. A soft pressed bat does not play well quickly, it takes more knocking and playing to hit its peak than a well pressed bat.

Better willow needs more care when pressed, if in its raw state it offers more rebound then it will be harder to compress.
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Manormanic

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2012, 07:40:52 PM »

Maybe if I simplify it a little, would a 10 perfect grain blade with no cosmetic faults play as well as a 6 wobbly uneven grain blade with pin knots and fleck?

Better question - are most of us good enough to really notice the difference in a match situation?

If there were no difference, why does every pro in the NZ-SA game have 10-20 ruler straight grains, even the lad using a Laver?
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Tom

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Re: The Myth of Performance Willow
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2012, 08:00:42 PM »

In my opinion I dont think anyone cares about SG on here!
If you don't care about how the Worlds largest consumer of cricket bat willow uses, grades and selects performance willow, fine.

But I do.

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