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Author Topic: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!  (Read 83924 times)

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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #210 on: July 24, 2012, 03:29:49 PM »

As a die hard cricket fan and a passionate Australian spporter I do get frustrated with comments coming from frustrated Australians clinging to once dominance, when truth be told we've got the worst stocks and team on par with say, th English Team of the 90s, we need new effetive players in all honesty.
As a cricket fan I do think the English teamis hyped up a lot, there is truth when saying Broad is rubbish, Finn who is taller and faster could play and intimadory role much better, sand frankly looking at Bresnan you can see the smart variotions he puts ona ball. Simply when you look at a bowlers you can tell how effrective and how serious a threat they are, sort of how i feel about HILFY likewise. However bashing comments about Anderson are unwarranted, you don't need averages to look at a bowler and say "WOW, the batsmen are in trouble here". I think he was av eraging 40 at one stage, anyone who knows how averages work will know it's going to take a long time for them to gradually go down.
All said and done, this English teamis Organised, do they have talent? Yes, but truth be told they have many weaknesses, mainly for me, both Styruass and Cooks problem of driving the full ball, they're not particualrly strong drivers, more of the cutting or pulling type, other than that the rest of the batsmens problems, Pietersen especially are lacking temprement and that's all, coupled with Swann and Bresnan wit the bat they're a formidable prospect, not to mention Anderson being a thorn to remove :P
Are they the best side in the past 3 years? Well they're pretty close, and this series should answer this, so sit back and enjoy, there's no doubt England will put up a fight in the nex test, intresting to see if they stick with Bopara who could do with how the Australian selectors have approached young, very capable batsmen, communication and faith :)

"On a par to England in the 1990's"

You are kidding me right? Right???

We have risen to #2 in the world.

This time last year we were #5 with most predicting with glee that we would be battling it out with Bangladesh and Windies for the bottom spot for years to come.

After this current series where England will surrender top spot, we will drop to #3 - a more accurate reflection of where we presently stand.

The fact remains that in the 1990's England did not have Pattinson, Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Cutting, Coulter-Nile, Lyon, Wade coming through the wings to rebuild with.

It is true that we do not exactly have a stream of promising young star batsmen coming through bashing the door down....but neither do England. They have the benefit of utilizing the ECCB Talent Identification Officers based in Cape Town to top up their batting order as required....if you were to take out Trott and Pietersen...England would be even more vulnerable than they are now.

The South African poster in this thread who mentioned promising young batsmen Levi, Miller, Quinton de Kock, Dean Elgar, Faf du Plessis, Stiaan Van Zyl and Reeza Hendricks knows only too well as indeed the English posters on here do, that at least two of those lads will be approached to play for England when the current England batting order starts retiring or losing form.

That is the English way.

We will find young batsmen to compete with the best, and they will be sons of the Southern Cross...not speaking with the accent of the High Veldt and referring to their newly acquired co nationals as "you people".

Have faith.
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #211 on: July 24, 2012, 03:34:15 PM »

Phew!

That was as jingoistic as I could make it!
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charlie15

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #212 on: July 24, 2012, 03:41:59 PM »

Phew!

That was as jingoistic as I could make it!


Hahaha, nice to see you don't reserve it just for us Poms!  :D  Although if we were to recruit some of the young SA bats you mentioned they now need to live in England for 7 years, compared to the 4 it has been, so unless any of them are under 18...

http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=17497.msg280598#msg280598
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #213 on: July 24, 2012, 03:42:49 PM »

Hahaha!  Although if we were to recruit some of the young SA bats you mentioned they now need to live in England for 7 years, compared to the 4 it has been, so unless any of them are under 17...

http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=17497.msg280598#msg280598


Seven years???

WOW!

That chamges the whole ball game now.
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charlie15

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #214 on: July 24, 2012, 03:43:49 PM »

Seven years???

WOW!

That chamges the whole ball game now.

I know we'll have to start cradle snatching the blighters now!  :D :D :D :D :D
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stevat

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #215 on: July 24, 2012, 04:09:01 PM »

I know we'll have to start cradle snatching the blighters now!  :D :D :D :D :D

Thought we already did that?

I think you always mature as a bowler far earlier than you do as a batsman.  It would be impossible to predict from a bunch of 19 year olds which of them will make it at the top level of cricket.

Vic's kinda right, there's not a great deal to separate any of the top test playing nations.  Australia have a promising attack but need a couple of batsmen to emerge.  I guess ideally you'd want someone in their late 20s with an average of above 40 in first class cricket.  What happened to Pomersbach?  He was touted a couple of years ago.

South Africa seem to produce very good cricketers who can build an innings.  Kallis is an exceptional player though, it will be very difficult to replace him even with all the talented batsmen they have coming through.

England have their own crop, but we seem to be throwing young kids in at the deep end and binning them all too easily.  Got to give them a run of games facing the best bowlers in the world.
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trypewriter

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #216 on: July 24, 2012, 04:19:35 PM »

So long as we don't go back to the bad old days - especially with batsmen - I think England will be ok. I'm sure there will be those who remember the time when players eventually forced their way in through sheer weight of runs, but it seemed as if the selectors were almost willing them to fail so they could get the revolving door going.
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Manormanic

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #217 on: July 24, 2012, 05:27:56 PM »

I think you always mature as a bowler far earlier than you do as a batsman.  It would be impossible to predict from a bunch of 19 year olds which of them will make it at the top level of cricket.

crap - I played against Michael Vaughan when we were both 14.  You could tell...

...and my side included three lads who went on to have decent professional careers and Liam Botham!
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Johnny

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #218 on: July 24, 2012, 05:38:17 PM »

Club cricket or rep?
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PM7

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #219 on: July 24, 2012, 06:57:34 PM »

Vics posts make good reading, some really interesting analysis there and great food for thought.
On a 95% UK forum there is bound to be some biased views and I enjoy Vics opinions of which many I agree with.

After years of mediocrity England have had a good run over the last 2 years and some supporters are being short sighted.
The trick is to keep it going for 7 which is where most teams come unstuck.

I appreciate good cricket and generally support the underdog which is why ive supported England but flippin heck ive enjoyed watching the Saffas over the last 5 days. I do agree that SA will win this series and India will nail England this winter. England have some phenomenal talent in depth but then so do SA and Australia. 2013 will be a very interesting year.
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stevat

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #220 on: July 24, 2012, 07:37:23 PM »

crap - I played against Michael Vaughan when we were both 14.  You could tell...

...and my side included three lads who went on to have decent professional careers and Liam Botham!

You see good players sure, we played Michael Gough when he was a lad and he was superb, outstanding. Still, what I mean by that is generally you peak younger as a bowler. Not many quicks last deep into their late thirties.
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arc1983

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #221 on: July 24, 2012, 07:42:44 PM »

ahhhh.... Michael Gough, what a bowler  ;)
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #222 on: July 25, 2012, 10:55:34 AM »

Vics posts make good reading, some really interesting analysis there and great food for thought.
On a 95% UK forum there is bound to be some biased views and I enjoy Vics opinions of which many I agree with.

After years of mediocrity England have had a good run over the last 2 years and some supporters are being short sighted.
The trick is to keep it going for 7 which is where most teams come unstuck.

I appreciate good cricket and generally support the underdog which is why ive supported England but flippin heck ive enjoyed watching the Saffas over the last 5 days. I do agree that SA will win this series and India will nail England this winter. England have some phenomenal talent in depth but then so do SA and Australia. 2013 will be a very interesting year.

Ease up on the compliments...I am starting to feel guilty winding you guys up!

Ooops! I have confessed my raison d'etre!

England can (and probably will) stay in the top 2-3 for next six to seven years, because there is at least something coming through in all departments.

Jos Buttler, Taylor, Bairstow all have loads of talent and you would think that at least two out of the three will make it to some degree.

Cook and Sherminator are both still pretty young as well. So a reasonable batting line up looks assured for the short term.

Finn and Broad have many years ahead of them and there are other young pacemen coming through.

All you pretty much need is a capable spinner when Swan chucks it in over the next couple of years and you are very much in the show.

The Saffers will eventually lose Kallis, but the rest of their batsmen still have some years ahead of them. Their pace attack is still relatively young.

Australia has to discover some young batsmen quick - no easy task.

Some promising kids, but we will wait and see how they go before making any big calls.
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #223 on: July 25, 2012, 11:06:13 AM »

crap - I played against Michael Vaughan when we were both 14.  You could tell...

...and my side included three lads who went on to have decent professional careers and Liam Botham!

When he was picked for England, he had a FC average of around 28...which was totally underwhelming given how good a test batsmen he was.

His series down here circa 2003 was something out of this world for its quality and the strength of the bowling attack it was achieved against.

He won man of the series in a losing side.

Incredible.
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Buzz

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #224 on: July 25, 2012, 03:43:01 PM »

His series down here circa 2003 was something out of this world for its quality and the strength of the bowling attack it was achieved against.

He won man of the series in a losing side.

Incredible.
I watched him score 150 in syndey, it was some of the finest batting I have seen.

back on topic, looking at the Eng Test team's 2012 stats, with the bat, the ball and results - even the most myopic Eng supporter (like me) would struggle to believe we were the no 1 test team.

It will take something truly special to turn this around - and if that happens then fine, otherwise SA deserve the plaudits. I realy do think Strauss has to up his game as skipper and recognise, as I think has been mentioned above, just bowling the corridor for hour upon hour at Jacques Kallis will only bring you heart ache, you need to push him out of his comfort zone. For that, you may need Finn and Broad - which means Bresnan gets left out. Teams have to make tough calls.

however the batting is the biggest weakness - that has missfired consistently for some time now. My call is to move the deck chairs a little. Have Bell at 3 and move trott and KP down one. On the first day of the last test we missed a trick not batting more positively when the pitch and the SA bowling was flat, having Trott and Cook grind it out cost us real momentum. Bell is technically good enough and can play the new ball so should be given the chance.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:47:17 PM by Buzz »
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