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Author Topic: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!  (Read 83922 times)

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trypewriter

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #225 on: July 25, 2012, 03:51:49 PM »

Agreed. I think Boycs' 'corridor of uncertainty' is the corridor of certainty for the SA batsmen - they are brilliant 'leavers' of anything they absolutely don't have to play, which is maybe a very underrated talent.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #226 on: July 25, 2012, 04:35:42 PM »

i think buzz is completely right about bell going to 3, possibly the best batsman in the team
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A-Swing-And-A-Miss

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #227 on: July 25, 2012, 05:12:34 PM »

Broad and Bresnan can both bowl decent bouncers yet despite bowling in the corridor not working they continued to do it rather than try and put the batsmen on the backfoot, it's when you're facing batsmen like Kallis, Smith and Amla that you really wish Tremlett hadn't got injured. He is basically a more consistent version of Harmison, he has the height and pace to put the batsmen on the back foot but doesn't bowl pointless wides to release the pressure like Harmison did.

For so long we have been used to bowling teams out relatively quickly so you only need 3 front line fast bowlers, however against a team that can bat out a day or two very comfortably you need 4 to keep them all fresh as you could see them struggling towards the end of the SA innings, plus it gives you abit of variation so the batsmen don't get used to the bowling too much. I would say Ravi out, bring Finn or Tremlett in and move Prior up to 6.
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FvanN

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #228 on: July 25, 2012, 08:30:29 PM »

Do you guys not think your being a little harsh on your team... It seems most folk on here are news paper editors. As soon as things get tough most folk are calling for heads to roll. :o

I feel the years of dominance in world cricket are over (ie the golden days of Aussie >:() and I firmly believe that England are slowly coming to the end of the purple run of form. You lot have been a fantastic team for a few years but you cant win forever and as said already if you look at the last years results you guys have not really performed like a number 1 team in the world... I think after this series its time to boot the older boys and start playing the young guns waiting in the wings...

If any player should be dropped I think it should be KP who always seems to be in the papers for the wrong reasons.. IMHO the sooner he gets kicked out the team the better for England. I know the man is an electrifying bat but a player cant be bigger than a team...

England came up against a very determined South African team. You have to remember we have been chasing the No 1 spot for as long as you guys have held it.. We almost had it on our tour of New Zealand but the rain saved you guys in the end. :(

Lets hope the rain does not have a say in this series  ;)



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Alvaro

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #229 on: July 25, 2012, 09:55:01 PM »

Pick Martin Bicknell!
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #230 on: July 26, 2012, 06:53:18 AM »

Do you guys not think your being a little harsh on your team... It seems most folk on here are news paper editors. As soon as things get tough most folk are calling for heads to roll. :o

I feel the years of dominance in world cricket are over (ie the golden days of Aussie >:() and I firmly believe that England are slowly coming to the end of the purple run of form. You lot have been a fantastic team for a few years but you cant win forever and as said already if you look at the last years results you guys have not really performed like a number 1 team in the world... I think after this series its time to boot the older boys and start playing the young guns waiting in the wings...

If any player should be dropped I think it should be KP who always seems to be in the papers for the wrong reasons.. IMHO the sooner he gets kicked out the team the better for England. I know the man is an electrifying bat but a player cant be bigger than a team...

England came up against a very determined South African team. You have to remember we have been chasing the No 1 spot for as long as you guys have held it.. We almost had it on our tour of New Zealand but the rain saved you guys in the end. :(

Lets hope the rain does not have a say in this series  ;)
seaem age and able to mature together.

There are two types of teams who make it to #1:

1/ A young team that is blossoming and grabs poll position after a series of excellent performances.

OR:

2/ An essentially older combination that caps off a sustained assualt on the #1 position by years of planning and preperation.

The English team that beat the brains out of Australia and then India to grab #1 were the latter type of number one. Paradoxically, the Australian and Indian teams they massacred were actually even older because both countries made the mistake of holding onto many over the hill players who had made them #1 in the past.

The imperceptable slide by England this year had at first gone barely noticed because it was thought to be merely a a hiccup in the overall scheme of things. However, there have been signs since even the all conquering India series last summer that inspite of reaching teh summit, it was not going to be an especially long stay.

Graeme Swan the barometer in the build up to the assualt on attaining the summit of #1, had an ordinary Ashes series and even more ordinary summer against the Indians. So while his collegues were filling their boots against Australia then India, he was merely serviceable.

In 2012 Swan has performed like a castrati and has perhaps, one or at best, two years left as a productive test cricketer.

Despite being a level headed, if somewhat unimaginative, captain, Strauss has been sliding with the bat and only a dead cat bounce series against the West Indians with the bat has saved him from the ignonimy of critics calling for his head due to lack of runs. The reality is that inspite of the very recent success, Strauss is on the steep decline as a test batsman and there is no shame in that, because the man is 36 afterall and given many years good service.

Jonothan Trott's career has followed a similar trajectory to that of Mike Hussey's in that both burst into test ranks late and with massive impact scoring mountains of runs. Both after a couple of years as successful test batsmen were eventually "worked out" by opposition bowlers and while they still score runs (they are both class players afterall), their output has come down to more mortal standards.

When you consider the above, the England team that was demolishing India last summer was already in need of a freshen up, but it is hard to change a winning combination and even harder still to change one that has clean swept a series against the former number 1's and grabbed the coveted number 1 spot itself.

If England loses this series and underwhelms in India, then the changes you would be looking at are as follows:

Cook, Bell and Trott are the core batsmen to rebuild the batting line up around. Pietersen still has some good years left in him, but he has also been on a steep decline over the last two years as well with the odd day out which reminds us of his rich talent.

So by the end of this year England need a new #6 (urgently) and a new opening partner for Cook (less urgent, but required sooner rather than later).

In terms of bowlers, the outllok is a fair bit brighter. Finn is just starting out, Broad is young un and Bresnan is hardly an oldy, so that is three that have many years ahead and all three a very good. Tremlett is the most dangerous paceman, but he is already 30 and injury prone, so best not to plan too much around him. He is a luxury, but one that cannot be relied upon for any length of time.

Anderson is the conundrum here. Despite his excellent service over the last two and a bit years, he has noticeably lost a yard of pace this summer. Much like Stuart Clark who had a huge two years of test cricket, once he lost that yard of pace, much of the sting went out of his bowling. While he was still very good, he was no longer the threat he once was.

England still has enough reserves in stock that unless the selectors fall asleep at the wheel, realistically England will maintain a top 2-3 position (if not #1) for a while yet.

Complacency is a big danger though and the lessons are there before your eyes.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 07:01:58 AM by Vic Nicholas »
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FvanN

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #231 on: July 26, 2012, 08:30:14 PM »

There are two types of teams who make it to #1:

1/ A young team that is blossoming and grabs poll position after a series of excellent performances.

OR:

2/ An essentially older combination that caps off a sustained assualt on the #1 position by years of planning and preperation.

The English team that beat the brains out of Australia and then India to grab #1 were the latter type of number one. Paradoxically, the Australian and Indian teams they massacred were actually even older because both countries made the mistake of holding onto many over the hill players who had made them #1 in the past.

The imperceptable slide by England this year had at first gone barely noticed because it was thought to be merely a a hiccup in the overall scheme of things. However, there have been signs since even the all conquering India series last summer that inspite of reaching teh summit, it was not going to be an especially long stay.

Graeme Swan the barometer in the build up to the assualt on attaining the summit of #1, had an ordinary Ashes series and even more ordinary summer against the Indians. So while his collegues were filling their boots against Australia then India, he was merely serviceable.

In 2012 Swan has performed like a castrati and has perhaps, one or at best, two years left as a productive test cricketer.

Despite being a level headed, if somewhat unimaginative, captain, Strauss has been sliding with the bat and only a dead cat bounce series against the West Indians with the bat has saved him from the ignonimy of critics calling for his head due to lack of runs. The reality is that inspite of the very recent success, Strauss is on the steep decline as a test batsman and there is no shame in that, because the man is 36 afterall and given many years good service.

Jonothan Trott's career has followed a similar trajectory to that of Mike Hussey's in that both burst into test ranks late and with massive impact scoring mountains of runs. Both after a couple of years as successful test batsmen were eventually "worked out" by opposition bowlers and while they still score runs (they are both class players afterall), their output has come down to more mortal standards.

When you consider the above, the England team that was demolishing India last summer was already in need of a freshen up, but it is hard to change a winning combination and even harder still to change one that has clean swept a series against the former number 1's and grabbed the coveted number 1 spot itself.

If England loses this series and underwhelms in India, then the changes you would be looking at are as follows:

Cook, Bell and Trott are the core batsmen to rebuild the batting line up around. Pietersen still has some good years left in him, but he has also been on a steep decline over the last two years as well with the odd day out which reminds us of his rich talent.

So by the end of this year England need a new #6 (urgently) and a new opening partner for Cook (less urgent, but required sooner rather than later).

In terms of bowlers, the outllok is a fair bit brighter. Finn is just starting out, Broad is young un and Bresnan is hardly an oldy, so that is three that have many years ahead and all three a very good. Tremlett is the most dangerous paceman, but he is already 30 and injury prone, so best not to plan too much around him. He is a luxury, but one that cannot be relied upon for any length of time.

Anderson is the conundrum here. Despite his excellent service over the last two and a bit years, he has noticeably lost a yard of pace this summer. Much like Stuart Clark who had a huge two years of test cricket, once he lost that yard of pace, much of the sting went out of his bowling. While he was still very good, he was no longer the threat he once was.

England still has enough reserves in stock that unless the selectors fall asleep at the wheel, realistically England will maintain a top 2-3 position (if not #1) for a while yet.

Complacency is a big danger though and the lessons are there before your eyes.


Very good synopsis of the state of the England team. I can see the England selectors going down this route but I feel if England can pull off (God forbid) a series win or draw the selectors might sit back and go well we made a fantastic come back so lets change nothing... It seems that as much as most England fans want a win the long term benefits of a series loss might be a good thing for English cricket... ???
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Johnny

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #232 on: July 26, 2012, 08:40:20 PM »

...nope, I reckon we'll lose and they'll still keep picking the same team
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Johnny

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #233 on: July 29, 2012, 09:54:49 AM »

No ravi in the latest squad? 5 man attack maybe? Or will JT get a debut?
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wilkie113

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #234 on: July 29, 2012, 11:01:30 AM »

Love to see JT get a chance
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junter97

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #235 on: July 29, 2012, 11:08:27 AM »

Really want to see James Taylor, I think he's ready for test cricket ad would love him to do well
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Kulli

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #236 on: July 29, 2012, 11:34:33 AM »

Seems an odd pick given he had a fairly poor winter and bad start to live in Div 1
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Simmy

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #237 on: July 31, 2012, 10:09:40 AM »

Anybody off to headingley on thursday?
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Kieron_BT

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #238 on: July 31, 2012, 11:48:05 AM »

YES! Hope this weather picks up!

Where you sitting?
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Ryan

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Re: Eng v SA.........let the battle commence!
« Reply #239 on: July 31, 2012, 12:18:52 PM »

I'm off with some lads from our cricket club on Thursday, cant wait  :D

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