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[Manormanic]

In the same way glen Chapple was disgrigaded by England due to pace

Two sided argument this one.  There is no reason why a guy who bowls int he high 70s can't take wickets in Test cricket - Shaun Pollock did it, as did Chaminda Vaas.  But...well...such bowlers do tend to rely on the conditions to get top players out and, well....

Mike Smith
Ed Giddins
Simon Brown

I could go on...

[wilkie113]

I really can't understand why Samit is in the team.

In my opinion he isn't a good enough batsmen or bowler for the test scene. I could never see him coming in a scoring a vital 150 when england really needed him too, or batting out the last session for England to get a draw.

[procricket]

He has hardly been given the chance though has he.

Not saying he is world class but the boy is certainly a better bat than woakes

I suspect though his due for the chop

How many people have watched him a few times he is know as having as much natural ability as anybody on the scene

[procricket]

Two sided argument this one.  There is no reason why a guy who bowls int he high 70s can't take wickets in Test cricket - Shaun Pollock did it, as did Chaminda Vaas.  But...well...such bowlers do tend to rely on the conditions to get top players out and, well....

Mike Smith
Ed Giddins
Simon Brown

I could go on...

Well as I grew up with Glen and played in many of the same sides as him it what he was told by England from the horses mouth shame realy he could have offered so much and can bat as well but that is old ground.

[lastmanstand]

firstly not a massive patel fan but hes getting a harsh deal here. Scored a decent 100 in the warm up and had 2 shocking lbw decisions in the first test, which couldnt be helped

Granted his bowling has been poor but he hardly had a series yet. stick with him as 3rd spinner for this series at least

[bigbenh99]

Woakes is a quality batsman, he only bats at 8 for the Bears to try and manage his workload because he opens the bowling, if he were playing for England he'd be 1st change, could easily be a 6 or 7 bat. As for his pace, he's bowling around 83/84 i think now, he gained a few mph over the winter last season so it'd be interesting to see if he increases his pace even more for next season, but I think his control is superb and that is what matters more than his speed. Clarke could definitely do the job but is too old to be anything other than a stop gap.

Little known fact about Rikki Clarke, he doesn't have hands, just 2 buckets.

[Kulli]

Two sided argument this one.  There is no reason why a guy who bowls int he high 70s can't take wickets in Test cricket - Shaun Pollock did it, as did Chaminda Vaas.  But...well...such bowlers do tend to rely on the conditions to get top players out and, well....

Mike Smith
Ed Giddins
Simon Brown

I could go on...

Vernon Philander...

[bigbenh99]

On the subject of Woakes, does anybody know what's going on with him? He's not in the Lions squad, has he suddenly been dropped out of favour?

[Manormanic]

Well we agree to disagree records state his record is better than average and I suspect given a go he would turn out fine just needs a long sustained chance I suspect, will he get it doubt it

Really?  As of today his first class record shows just over 6'000 runs at 39 with 16 tons, which is solid (and, if we're being fair and transparent, marginally better than Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan's when they came into the test arena) but nothing exceptional given the general upward trend since the move to four day cricket.

Some comparisons for you with other established players who either failed at Test level or never made it as far as the test side shows just how average his record is:
Anthony McGrath 14500 runs at 37 with 35 tons
David Sales 13000 at 39 with 26
Bobby Key 16000 at 41 with 46
Owais Shah 16000 at 42 with 44
Vikram Solanki 13000 at 36 with 31

and going back just a few years further:
Ben Smith 18500 at 40 with 40
Ed Smith 13000 at 42 with 34
Mal Loye 15000 at 40 with 42

[Manormanic]

Well as I grew up with Glen and played in many of the same sides as him it what he was told by England from the horses mouth shame realy he could have offered so much and can bat as well but that is old ground.

Oh, Chappell deserved a chance, there is no doubt about that - it must have beenreally galling for him when his team mate at Lancashire Peter Martin was getting a game despite being a considerably worse bowler.

[procricket]

Really?  As of today his first class record shows just over 6'000 runs at 39 with 16 tons, which is solid (and, if we're being fair and transparent, marginally better than Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan's when they came into the test arena) but nothing exceptional given the general upward trend since the move to four day cricket.

Some comparisons for you with other established players who either failed at Test level or never made it as far as the test side shows just how average his record is:
Anthony McGrath 14500 runs at 37 with 35 tons
David Sales 13000 at 39 with 26
Bobby Key 16000 at 41 with 46
Owais Shah 16000 at 42 with 44
Vikram Solanki 13000 at 36 with 31

and going back just a few years further:
Ben Smith 18500 at 40 with 40
Ed Smith 13000 at 42 with 34
Mal Loye 15000 at 40 with 42

You forgot nick speak and his wonder season

Well he is in the team I hope he gets a chance as well a quality player lies there

Key should have played more for me as well

Plus averages have been coming down I do believe not so many runs about as they used to be not that many make 1000 runs in a season any more not like they used to maybe the rolling situation has helped the bowlers

All suggestive to say I like him England seem to rate him as well I guess

[Manormanic]

You forgot nick speak and his wonder season

Well he is in the team I hope he gets a chance as well a quality player lies there

Key should have played more for me as well

Plus averages have been coming down I do believe not so many runs about as they used to be.

All suggestive to say I like him England seem to rate him as well I guess

I don't know about averages coming down - I think if anything they are becoming more standardised because of four day cricket and better pitches. 

Graham Lloyd would have been another good one to include in the above list come to think of it.

[Alvaro]

Sales would have played a good few Tests if he hadn't knacked his knee in the Caribbean and he certainly became too fond of the tea trolley.

I like Patel, strikes me as one of those bats who gets stinking decisions. He also seems to be out strangled a lot.

[Alvaro]

Really?  As of today his first class record shows just over 6'000 runs at 39 with 16 tons, which is solid (and, if we're being fair and transparent, marginally better than Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan's when they came into the test arena) but nothing exceptional given the general upward trend since the move to four day cricket.

Some comparisons for you with other established players who either failed at Test level or never made it as far as the test side shows just how average his record is:
Anthony McGrath 14500 runs at 37 with 35 tons
David Sales 13000 at 39 with 26
Bobby Key 16000 at 41 with 46
Owais Shah 16000 at 42 with 44
Vikram Solanki 13000 at 36 with 31

and going back just a few years further:
Ben Smith 18500 at 40 with 40
Ed Smith 13000 at 42 with 34
Mal Loye 15000 at 40 with 42

I'm so glad you left out Chris Adams there...

[Manormanic]

I'm so glad you left out Chris Adams there...

he would have been a good call but I can't bring myself to consider the loathsome *deleted*