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Author Topic: Australian Ashes First Test XI  (Read 24198 times)

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jbrommo

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 09:36:16 PM »

I can't believe that the Aussies don't have better players than Hughes? Kawaja has experience of English conditions and for me is a far better option. What about Finch? Or is he just a 20/20 player?
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 09:49:40 PM »

No problem. If you look at all the great teams they have a combination of attacking and defensive players in the line up. Especially if you look at the three truely great teams
Aus post 2nd world war (the invincibles) 1948 especially
WI in the 80's
Aus in the late 90's/2000's

we see a combination of hard hitting stroke players at the top of the order and batsmen who bat time to balance them (we wont even mention the players who came after the top three, Millar, Hassett, Clive Lloyd, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh etc...)

Barnes, Morris, Bradman
Grenidge, Haynes, Richards
Haydon or Slater with Langer or Taylor then Ponting at 3

Even the second tier of just very good teams we see the 2005 Eng team had
Trescothic, Strauss, Vaughan.
the Indian late 2000's team of:
Sehwag, Gambhir and Dravid

there is always at least one attacking opening bat and then complementing players around them.

We currently have a top three of
Cook, Compton and Trott, who hardly get the ball of the square - which means there is too much pressure on the likes of KP and Bell to take the game away from the oposition - even if they come in at 150-2 it will be just before tea and they will have to get their eye in - then go off for tea then come back, get their eye in and face the second new ball. We really are not helping ourselves.

My regularly stated view is that if we want to really challenge we need to ask the question of is there a way we can rebalance the order?
Should we think about Bell opening or KP at three. Yes. Manormanic would say that is his worst nightmare - but I can think of many worse scenarios. one of which is the current line up.

Would you not think a line up of
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Trott
Bairstow
Root/Compton
Prior

would look a better bet for putting pressure on the opposition early on? if it was 12-2 seeing trott walking out is far more reasurring that seeing KP walk out. if it was 210 for 2 just before tea and you then had trott walking out to bat the bowlers would want to kill themselves. This wouldn't happen with the current line up.

I tend to agree with most of Buzz's analysis... Please please please don't put Bell up the order though!!! He's fragile enough at 5 let alone moving him up to a more pressurised position!!
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jbrommo

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2013, 10:03:26 PM »

I'd actually like to see Bell open, which would give better balance as Bell is more attacking in nature but also has great technique and concentration. Compton has done nothing wrong but has to find a balance between surviving and scoring runs.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2013, 10:53:19 PM »

I'd actually like to see Bell open, which would give better balance as Bell is more attacking in nature but also has great technique and concentration.

has no brain.. has no brain.. has no brain
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fros23

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2013, 07:06:37 AM »

has no brain.. has no brain.. has no brain

I'm impressed how you have managed to change a thread about the Aussies in to more bashing of Bell!  :)
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2013, 08:16:34 AM »

I'm impressed how you have managed to change a thread about the Aussies in to more bashing of Bell!  :)

Sorry :).  Can't let people discuss him opening, gives me nightmares him being at 5 let alone opening!
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Buzz

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2013, 08:24:04 AM »

I suggested Bell because he is used to batting at the top of the order, opens in ODI cricket and is more of a stroke player who has almost 6000 test runs at 46 - and I think he is in the top 6 batsmen in the country. No problem with not agreeing with me, but you are likely to be wrong (!!! ;))

Back on topic - what to the Aussies think of Sam Robson? - he clearly views himself as an Aussie (nothing wrong with that) and is playing under his British passport so he isn't an overseas and can hedge his position (I would do the same)

This is great from George "it's going to be a bright sunshining day" Dobell on cricinfo today

It is probably only natural that a club based in the middle of one of the most ethnically diverse cities in Europe will reflect the community it serves. But, even by the standards of London, this Middlesex side is a cosmopolitan bunch.

It contains two men born in Australia, three men born or brought up in South Africa, one born in German, another in Wales and one each from Lancashire and Kent. Even the two London-born players, Tim Murtagh and Toby Roland-Jones, have previously passed through the Surrey system. You could make a strong case to argue that not one of this team have developed through the Middlesex development programme.

Middlesex, noting their reliance upon imports, have invested heavily in their facilities in recent times and it is hoped, in time, they will be more self reliant.

But they were grateful for a couple of their imports on the second day of this game. First Sam Robson established a platform before John Simpson built on it to earn Middlesex a position from which they could earn a match-defining advantage on day three.

Robson looks a fine player. There is more than a passing resemblance to Mike Atherton in his determination and the way he looks at the crease, with the fluency through wide mid on and the similarities of the cut stroke most uncanny.

But quite who benefits from his development remains to be seen. Robson, who claims he is uncertain over his qualification status, was born in Australia, played for the U19 side and returned to participate in Grade cricket this winter. He has a British mother, however, and is ensuring he spends enough time in the UK to qualify for England at the start of the 2014 season. In this weather, that probably shows some level of commitment.

Bearing in mind Australia's current dearth of batting talent, however, he could well be one of three men in this match (Chris Rogers and Ed Cowan are the others) considered for national selection some time before then. His options remain open and Australia could do a great deal worse.

Certainly he was reluctant to categorically confirm his commitment to England when asked about it at the close of play. "Everyone wants to play international cricket," he told ESPNcricinfo. "I'm loving playing in England and my home is in London. I'm not looking at anything more than that."

Whether that is a satisfactory situation in a county game that is duty bound to support the development of the England team is debatable. While it might be argued that players like Robson help raise the standard, it might equally be argued that they impede the progress of young men who would be less equivocal in their national commitments. Robson, understandably focused on making his way in the game, is hardly to blame for the unsatisfactory regulations.

Robson, keeping with the theme of this match, battled hard only to then play a large part in his own downfall. Throwing his hands at a wide ball, he edged to the keeper in a spell of play that brought Nottinghamshire back into the game; a shot he later described as "criminal". Middlesex, having posted 106 for the first wicket, then lost five wickets for 69 runs. Still trailing by 103 with their top-order gone, the match was in the balance.

That Nottinghamshire side were unable to capitalise upon that position was largely their own fault. On a pitch offering variable bounce and in conditions offering just enough seam and swing, they delivered far too many release balls to build the requisite pressure. Middlesex accumulated 160 runs in boundaries and another 38 in extras - including 11 from wides and eight from no-balls - as Nottinghamshire's bowlers squandered the conditions and sprayed the ball around.

"We're slightly disappointed," Luke Fletcher, the pick of the bowlers, admitted afterwards. "We didn't put the ball in the right areas enough. It is still moving around and swinging."

Gareth Berg - South African born, but an Italian international cricketer - and Simpson also deserve some credit. The pair added 116 for the sixth wicket with Simpson registering his first half-century in the Championship since September 2011. He drove and cut nicely, but could count himself fortunate that Nottinghamshire's bowlers remained so inconsistent. He had earned his side a lead of 19 by the time bad light ended play 9.2 overs early. Possibly, had Ollie Rayner been dismissed, play could have continued: if is often said you can see clearly once Rayner has gone.

Perhaps the cold contributed to Nottinghamshire's problems. In conditions so cold that even Captain Oates would think twice before venturing out for a walk, the floodlights remained on for the entire day and fielding was an uncomfortable business.

When Nottinghamshire did stick to a decent line and length, they won due reward. Chris Rogers, who may have nudged the Australian selectors once more by passing 19,000 first-class runs on his way to another half-century, perished when he left a straight one that swung back at him before Joe Denly, Dawid Malan and Neil Dexter were all forced onto the back foot by sustained and impressive spells of short bowling and then dismissed when they failed to get fully forward to fuller balls.

While Fletcher may still more resemble the chef at Hooters he used to be than an elite athlete, he bowled with skill and discipline. Ajmal Shahzad, among some pretty horrid stuff, also bowled some excellent deliveries, but Andy Carter, feeding the cut shot, endured a disappointing day and Andre Adams, by his lofty standards, was surprisingly inconsistent.

Middlesex's hopes of pressing for victory could be harmed by an injury to James Harris, though. The club fear he has a hamstring strain, but hope he has been suffering from cramp after his exertions on the first day. It remains to be seen if he will bowl again in the game.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 08:30:11 AM by Buzz »
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iand123

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2013, 11:23:51 AM »

As an englishman i'd love to see Maxwell continue getting in the side, he's just not up to the level required if you ask me!

1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. P Hughes
4. Clarke
5. Watson
6. Henriques
7. Wade
8. Siddle
9. M Starc
10. J Pattinson
11. Lyon/Doherty/and for old time sakes, about time someone through Shane Warne into the mix for a recall :)
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Sam

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2013, 11:53:21 AM »

I think Bailey mustered one Shield fifty all season so no room for him. 

Baileys current playing here at Hampshire for the season so has a chance to impress , hope he doesn't get in though so we keep him all season  ???. Got 90 odd in his first innings the other day in the CC.
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DiscoStu

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2013, 12:42:38 PM »

Out of the recent Australian test series I only really watched the India series closely. On this flimsy evidence though I would say their best line-up is:

Warner
Cowan
Watson (if he bowls, if he doesn't bowl then he is out of the team)
Clarke
Khawaja (struggling to think of any other recognised batsman who can fit in here other than the out-of-sorts Hughes)
Smith
Wade
Siddle
Johnson
Pattinson
Starc

Long tail but Siddle and Johnson can contribute. I think at Trent Bridge it probably best you go for your best seam attack. If it looks like there may be some turn then Lyon comes in. This line-up requires Smith and/or Watson to bowl significant overs and if Watson isn't bowling then bring in any batsman or Henriques to bat 7 and shuffle the middle order.

Whatever way I have looked at it, the Aussies are extremely thin in batting and although he performed OK in India Smith just isn't high quality enough to hold down a spot on his batting alone.

I've got tickets for day 2 at TB so I hope England bat first and put on a decent display on the 1st day so I can see the likes of Prior smack it around in the 2nd morning then watch the Aussies crumble for the rest of the day.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 01:30:14 PM »

Warner
Cowan
Chris rodgers (has 19000 first class runs and provides experiance to a fragile order)
Clarke
Khawaja
Smith
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Starc/Pattinson
Lyon
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2013, 03:50:24 AM »

I don't see the conditions being all that favourable for the Aussie bowlers or see them scything through our batting. But that is just my view.

What?

Is England planning on preparing 5 sub continental style bunsen burners for the series?

If that is the case, your bastmen will make 500+ each time.

If normal seaming decks are prepared, the Aussie pacemen will take wickets...and lots of them.

The Australian batting is so weak, that any advantage gained by the bowlers will be lost immediately.

I have been pretty clear on that for months.
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2013, 04:01:58 AM »

Sam Robson is an interesting one.

The fact that he has never been selected to play even a single FC match in Australia despite averaging 50 in CC only a year or so ago suggests that the CA heirarchy believe that Robson had his sights on representing England.

However, with this more recent non committal attitude from Robson would suggest that he has done a volte face, as it doesn't take Einstein to work out that Robson would stand a very good chance of playing for Australia sooner than he would for England.

Robson may consider himself an "Aussie", but evidently something in the past has convinced CA to see him as committed elsewhere - how else can you explain NSW ignoring him in the last two seasons?

In any case, he would need a mountain of runs in FC cricket over the next two months to force his way into the squad for the upcoming Ashes squad. Even then, it would be extraordinary for a lad to be selected for Australia's test team who has never played FC cricket in Australia.

But, desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Manormanic

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2013, 09:02:54 AM »

I don't know what the story with Robsonis - he certainly speaks like an Aussie and behaves like an Aussie (for good and for ill) - hell, he even bats like an Aussie.

Is he ready for Test cricket?  Probably not - is he better than Phil Hughes? Almost certainly...
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Vic Nicholas

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Re: Australian Ashes First Test XI
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2013, 12:26:08 PM »

I don't know what the story with Robsonis - he certainly speaks like an Aussie and behaves like an Aussie (for good and for ill) - hell, he even bats like an Aussie.

Is he ready for Test cricket?  Probably not - is he better than Phil Hughes? Almost certainly...

Better than Hughes?

I haven't seen Robson to be fair, so I have no idea.

It would be hard NOT to be technically better than Hughes, but statistically, it is a no contest. At the same age as Robson is now, Phil Hughes already three test centuries (2 against SA and 1 against SL) and 4 scores in the 80's (2 against SL, 1 against SA and 1 against NZ). Also has a 75 against SA and a 69 against India.

Last County Championship season Robson barely averaged 30 while Hughes averaged circa 45.

So while Robson apparently has a lovely technique (if the comparisons with Atherton are correct, that is good enough for me), his results are modest compared to the kamikaze technique Hughes.
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