Topic: Butterfly (Read 147803 times)

Rob580 · « **Reply #270 on:** April 03, 2014, 03:56:42 PM »

Yeah thats true smilley, people seem to have more opinions now, and seem to need everyone to agree with them!

smokem · « **Reply #271 on:** April 03, 2014, 03:58:47 PM »

I have to say that at first, I was taken aback by the new G1 butterfly grading. After all, a butterfly is a butterfly and I assume they are all priced the same. So why the premium?

But I totally get where Paul is coming from and his reasoning is spot on. I too was keen on a butterfly and I would have been really picky looking for the best butterfly for the money. And if I was doing that, I can imagine everyone else would be doing that as well. And with the amount of butterfly bats Paul has posted, imagine how much time he spends picking clefts for customers and the to-ing and fro-ing with those customers! And for that service, I believe he is justified in charging a premium. Perhaps Paul should not have allowed people to pick butterfly clefts. After all, it is a �135 bat and I doubt many bat makers out would let you pick a cleft at that price point!

Time will tell if the new pricing will work. I don't envy you Paul! But keep doing what you're doing!

procricket · « **Reply #272 on:** April 03, 2014, 04:01:47 PM »

Quote from: smilley792 on April 03, 2014, 03:46:56 PM

But are the ugly ones still a non advertised price? Or is a 1 stripe low density cleft available at a 1 stripe price?

Crown clefts have never been selected on looks there are ugly Crowns mate ones which are 1 stripe in looks.

Plus crown willow has never been advertised mate
You think most pro bats are all beautiful grained beauties you would be wrong.

Back on topic to butterfly I have tried and used them in average a butterfly cleft is heavier than most.

fasteddie · « **Reply #273 on:** April 03, 2014, 04:04:35 PM »

Quote from: Aldred Cricket Bats on April 03, 2014, 03:44:09 PM

If I have made an error in my business thoughts I will have to stand by it but we will have to see over time. I know what quality I am putting out there and what is and has gone into it so I have to price accordingly. I will be the first one to put my hands up if I have got it wrong I can tell you.

I don't think you've made an error. Your price is a reflection of a whole raft of factors. One of which is knowledge and experience.
Your prices are very competitive indeed.
"170 for the best butterfly clefts is fair. You said that they last longer and really do perform. Dean at Vulcan has one and (I think( it's a couple of years old. He hits the ball like Thor! Can't be that bad.

A very, very small number of people have raised an eyebrow. I wouldn't change my business on the instant response of a very small handful of people, especially as they on the whole anonymous and have not declared their credentials.

Your credentials are known and given due respect. Stick to your guns. I'd buy at that price (if I didn't have a room full of H4L's!) and wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Thumbs up from down south.

Aldred Cricket Bats · « **Reply #274 on:** April 03, 2014, 04:28:45 PM »

Quote from: fasteddie on April 03, 2014, 04:04:35 PM

I don't think you've made an error. Your price is a reflection of a whole raft of factors. One of which is knowledge and experience.
Your prices are very competitive indeed.
"170 for the best butterfly clefts is fair. You said that they last longer and really do perform. Dean at Vulcan has one and (I think( it's a couple of years old. He hits the ball like Thor! Can't be that bad.

A very, very small number of people have raised an eyebrow. I wouldn't change my business on the instant response of a very small handful of people, especially as they on the whole anonymous and have not declared their credentials.

Your credentials are known and given due respect. Stick to your guns. I'd buy at that price (if I didn't have a room full of H4L's!) and wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Thumbs up from down south.

Thanks fasteddie I sometimes find it hard to comprehend how some people look at it. If the big brands are charging �500 in the shops for mass manufactured bats how much would they charge if they were making everything to the customers specs along with the service to go hand in hand that the small bat companies like ourselves on this forum offer day in day out. I know for myself I am not a vat registered company so I have to soak all the vat up myself then have it taken from me by the inland revenue at the end of each year along with all the other essentials that you have to pay to the government, on top of that you have to keep your prices realistic to try and take some business away for the big names on top of that you have to not only put enough aside for your next order of clefts so that's on minimum orders so a good few thousand there, stickers best part of �1000 each time you have a set in small numbers if you want the best quality, then what's left if your lucky you can take a wage from it, hence why I still do a lot of coaching. Sometimes I think it would be easier to get a 9-5 job somewhere with no risk, would I enjoy it? No not at all and certainly wouldn't get the satisfaction I get from seeing people happy with what I have made.

Aldred Cricket Bats · « **Reply #275 on:** April 03, 2014, 05:13:39 PM »

Another example of a butterfly g1 cleft

horseman · « **Reply #276 on:** April 03, 2014, 05:37:24 PM »

I think we're lucky to get a handmade custom product at an affordable price point. If you want a butterfly bat get one if you want a good looking piece of willow go for that, Mr aldred answers a lot of questions and contributes a lot to our beloved forum as do other independent batmakers. They are what make our humble game a passion.

I imagine if paul had set the butterfly's at 155 and split the difference the world wouldve balked at the 20 quid increase, but then still found it a bargain.

Ive now jumped off my soapbox!!!

GarrettJ · « **Reply #277 on:** April 03, 2014, 06:26:33 PM »

The price set is what mr Aldred thinks is a fair reflection of the quality of the product.

Only time will tell if �175 is the correct price, the "invisible hand" will do its work.

Alvaro · « **Reply #278 on:** April 03, 2014, 06:41:45 PM »

That butterfly above is barely a mark, very clean otherwise. I can totally see the reason for pricing like this. Pay it or don't.

Also, you're doing well to get change out of 190 notes for a 2014 5 Star GN, which is mass produced and have pin knots, which I think are far worse than a butterfly (I think they make a bat feel dead in that spot).

Finally, this forum has had a LOT of sponsors. How many have contributed any where near as much as Paul? From my experience, none of his posts have tried to shroud things in mystery or make out that something's more than it is. I bet he knows a little more than some self-professed bat nerds. I hope they sell Paul. Good luck.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #279 on:** April 03, 2014, 06:42:02 PM »

Quote from: fasteddie on April 03, 2014, 04:04:35 PM

"170 for the best butterfly clefts is fair. You said that they last longer and really do perform. Dean at Vulcan has one and (I think( it's a couple of years old. He hits the ball like Thor! Can't be that bad.

Does this mean that �170 for a G4 bat is now justified in your opinion? Sure at one stage on another topic it was not?

Deans Butterfly bat is indeed purely on performance an outstanding piece of wood.

Finally Paul from my very limited knowledge people will knock something that you do or disagree with a price point, view, statement mate. You have built a very good brand with excellent reviews mate and an increase of �35 per bat on the previous price is negliable in the current world we live in. I have not had any experience of using a butterfly bat personally but a few and more seem to join the band daily so to me they still offer a great bat at a very good price point.

frooper11 · « **Reply #280 on:** April 03, 2014, 07:13:54 PM »

As always the threads on Paul's page bring up some interesting opinions on various aspects of bat making. At the end of the day as others have pointed out, with all bat manufacturers you have the personal choice to pay what you like, we all know a �400 bat does not guarantee performance, it's a shame that a newcomer to the game may walk into a high street cricket shop and expect better performance the more money they part with.

I for one know where I'd rather part with my money, like all custom bat makers, the knowledge and craftsmanship and hours that go into making a bat regardless of it's grade make it a no brainer in terms of where I'd part with my cash in future.

Even at �175 for a butterfly bat, I imagine it's difficult for someone like Paul to make all that much profit on a new bat. I've no idea how much a single butterfly cleft costs but as Paul has stated above, 4-6 hours work goes into making each bat. I doubt any of us would grumble at paying �40 per hour labour down our local garage for our car to be repaired yet some baulk at �175 for a handcrafted cricket bat that's taken many hours to perfect to their own exacting specifications.

The open and honest approach Paul and others have adopted is most refreshing. Others have noted that various of the big name brands appear to be inconsistent in their grading and therefore their pricing.

You get what you pay for in terms of looks but no one knows how a bat may perform. I guess it all comes down to how much effort and knowledge an individual is prepared to pay for. I would say it's a damn sight more than most high street brands and you're supporting a UK manufacturer to boot.

tushar sehgal · « **Reply #281 on:** April 04, 2014, 12:11:19 AM »

Ok this will be last post here on this.

There are a lot of other brands that offer great service, no offense to Paul, and very well priced gear. I am not sure when offering good service became an added feature to a seller/retailer instead of being the norm, I expect good service when I spend my money. If you go out to eat do you expect good service? do you always get it? no but those places don't always do well.

Atleast I am consistent, G4 Aldred is overpriced in my opinion and so are HH but I am not saying don't sell at that point, sell at whatever people buy it for, its your business not mine. Do I doubt the quality of either product, no way. I am sure they are great but not for me.

We continuously see these things happen and sit back moan about for a little bit, then we conform and it becomes normal. As for contribution to the forum, there have been a lot of sponsors, lots have shared a lot of their knowledge, SAF comes to mind & Talisman is another...then their are others...

You know good service? Matt@H4L, Keiron @ Bulldog, Asad @ Uzi are few to name just quickly....they don't charge anymore than others for similar products despite great service they offer. Asad must have sent me hundreds of pics when I sometimes don't even end up buying. Matt always replies, Keiron not only contributes but also helpful...list goes on....not sure if I have made my point but I am done on this thread...good luck to everyone...butterfly can indeed cause a hurricane

cricketbadger · « **Reply #282 on:** April 04, 2014, 08:51:53 AM »

Like people have said, many will be happy to pay �175 for a bat like these, its your choice at the end of the day. I know what id rather spend my money on when it comes to an Aldred made to my spec and choice of cleft, or a mass produced GN,GM, Kook etc etc for the same price or sometimes more. looking at some of those clefts available they butterfly mark is only minor and the grains look superb. Each to their own.

Another thing included in the price I feel is the honesty, customer service and hard work which Paul puts into his bats and this forum. He has shed a lot of light on plenty of questions in the past and done his bit in educating a lot of us.

If you want to pay �175 for what I have no doubts will be a superb bat, then do it. bloody hell some of you on here pay ridiculous prices for bats, purely based on brand name, and without the custom aspect that Paul offers.

trypewriter · « **Reply #283 on:** April 04, 2014, 09:35:04 AM »

I think this butterfly debate is maybe getting a bit out of hand in some respects. There is obviously grading over all clefts, so why should butterfly be different? You could argue that a butterfly cleft is a butterfly cleft, but that is the same as saying that a cleft is a cleft is a cleft (you might be right, but the vast range of prices tells you otherwise). Doubtless, as has been suggested, some butterfly clefts will have more, straighter grains, the stain may be more pleasing and in a better place on the cleft, the cleft itself may be lighter giving a potential bigger bat for the weight. Now, any cleft that has ALL of these characteristics will probably be a bit of a rare beast, so scarcity value would demand a higher price. It's the same as if a perfect, unblemished, ruler straight 20 grain full sized cleft weighing just 3lb was to be graded. You would expect to pay more.

tim2000s · « **Reply #284 on:** April 04, 2014, 09:58:52 AM »

So in spite of the discussion, it all comes back to the point that you can only really grade the cleft on looks, even a butterfly cleft. And the rest is up to the batmaker's skill to get the best out of what he has and to select the most appropriate clefts to wield his magic drawknife over.

And the amount of time spent on "wielding the magic drawknife" is quite a bit more than many of our imaginations!

Author Topic: Butterfly (Read 147803 times)

Rob580

Re: Butterfly

smokem

Re: Butterfly

procricket

Re: Butterfly

fasteddie

Re: Butterfly

Aldred Cricket Bats

Re: Butterfly

Aldred Cricket Bats

Re: Butterfly

horseman

Re: Butterfly

GarrettJ

Re: Butterfly

Alvaro

Re: Butterfly

SOULMAN1012

Re: Butterfly

frooper11

Re: Butterfly

tushar sehgal

Re: Butterfly

cricketbadger

Re: Butterfly

trypewriter

Re: Butterfly

tim2000s

Re: Butterfly