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[Manormanic]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/707723.html

Michael Clarke said similar a few days ago.  Interesting question this - how do people compare the South African and Australian attacks (which for me are the best in the world right now - New Zealand and Pakistan are decent, England's needs remodelling and India, Sri Lanka, Bnagladesh and the West Indies nowhere).

I'd suggest comparing either the best five man line up for both (with one of the five having to be good enough to bat in the top seven) or the best five seamers, an all rounder and two spinners (to reflect the composition of a normal touring party)...

[Manormanic]

Five man attacks:

Dale Steyn - vs - Mitchell Johnson
Vernon Philander - vs - Ryan Harris
Morne Morkel - vs- Peter Siddle
Ryan McClaren - vs - Shane WAtson
Robin Peterson - vs - Nathan Lyon

What do you think (I'm going to defer my comments for a change!)

[Over Gully]

In terms of depth, I'd say Australia easily has the best going around. The current list of fast bowlers not in the test side are Jimmy Pattinson, Mitch Starc, Pat Cummins, Jackson Bird, James Faulkner, Ben Hilfenhaus, Doug Bollinger, all have at least one Test cap, then you have Nathan Coulter-Nile, Josh Hazelwood who are uncapped. I also fancy Jason Behrendorf (?) from WA, another tall left-armer who can swing it. That is an embarrassment of talent in the wings, and I doubt any other country, Sth Africa included, would have that in reserve. As far as Steyn/Morkel/Philander v Johnson/Harris/Siddle, I'd give it to the Sth African trio, just. NZ are building well with Southee and Boult as an opening combo, with Wagner a decent first change.

[Gerry SA]

Five man attacks:

Dale Steyn - vs - Mitchell Johnson
Vernon Philander - vs - Ryan Harris
Morne Morkel - vs- Peter Siddle
Ryan McClaren - vs - Shane WAtson
Robin Peterson - vs - Nathan Lyon

What do you think (I'm going to defer my comments for a change!)

Id say the match up is like this

Steyn vs Harris (leaders of the attacks)
Philander vs Siddle (workhorses)
Morkel vs Johnson (speed demons)
R. Peterson vs Lyon
McLaren/Parnell/Morris vs Watson.

The forth seamer for the Proteas will be a bowling all rounder, whereas Watson is now more a batting all rounder.

[Buzz]

Here are the current (post ashes) bowling rankings

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/bowling/

remember 900 is classed an all time great...

1 909 V.D. Philander SA 912 v India, 18/12/2013
2 901 D.W. Steyn SA 908 v Pakistan, 01/02/2013
3 866 R.J. Harris AUS 866 v England, 03/01/2014
4 826 H.M.R.K.B. Herath SL 838 v New Zealand, 25/11/2012
5 799 Saeed Ajmal PAK 855 v Zimbabwe, 03/09/2013
6 779 P.M. Siddle AUS 816 v England, 01/08/2013
7 759 R. Ashwin IND 808 v West Indies, 14/11/2013
8 743 M.G. Johnson AUS 825 v England, 08/07/2009
9 741 P.P. Ojha IND 773 v England, 05/12/2012
10 729 T.A. Boult NZ 729 v West Indies, 19/12/2013
10 729 S.C.J. Broad ENG 783 v West Indies, 17/05/2012
12 707 M. Morkel SA 776 v Australia, 09/11/2011
13 699 T.G. Southee NZ 699 v West Indies, 19/12/2013
14 696 Abdur Rehman PAK 739 v England, 03/02/2012
15 683 J.M. Anderson ENG 813 v India, 10/08/2011
16 649 K.A.J. Roach WI 712 v New Zealand, 02/08/2012
17 627 B.W. Hilfenhaus AUS 757 v West Indies, 19/04/2012
18 618 N.M. Lyon AUS 648 v England, 26/12/2013

whomever you choose - and I think there is nothing in it - but with the Aussies shading it on current form and because Lyon is better than the SA spin option - Craig McDermott is the bowling coach I most want coaching my team.

[Manormanic]

In terms of depth, I'd say Australia easily has the best going around. The current list of fast bowlers not in the test side are Jimmy Pattinson, Mitch Starc, Pat Cummins, Jackson Bird, James Faulkner, Ben Hilfenhaus, Doug Bollinger, all have at least one Test cap, then you have Nathan Coulter-Nile, Josh Hazelwood who are uncapped. I also fancy Jason Behrendorf (?) from WA, another tall left-armer who can swing it. That is an embarrassment of talent in the wings, and I doubt any other country, Sth Africa included, would have that in reserve. As far as Steyn/Morkel/Philander v Johnson/Harris/Siddle, I'd give it to the Sth African trio, just. NZ are building well with Southee and Boult as an opening combo, with Wagner a decent first change.

Both have pretty deep reserves - South Africa have Abbott, De Lange, Parnell, Tsotsobe and a couple others.

[Alvaro]

Such a dearth of young spinners who don't simply bowl darts. Would argue that only Ajmal significantly augments an attack as a twirler. Herath is Sri Lanka's attack, I suppose.

[Manormanic]

Id say the match up is like this

Steyn vs Harris (leaders of the attacks)
Philander vs Siddle (workhorses)
Morkel vs Johnson (speed demons)
R. Peterson vs Lyon
McLaren/Parnell/Morris vs Watson.

The forth seamer for the Proteas will be a bowling all rounder, whereas Watson is now more a batting all rounder.

I went for the seam attacks in the order they were given the ball, but agree that this is just as reasonable a way of looking at it.

For me, head to head, the South Africans win two clearly, one narrowly, draw one and lose one.

[Manormanic]

Such a dearth of young spinners who don't simply bowl darts. Would argue that only Ajmal significantly augments an attack as a twirler. Herath is Sri Lanka's attack, I suppose.

and Herath is, if we're honest, nothing special outside of Sri Lanka.

Looking at that list, its worrying to think how a generation of world class spinners/chuckers - Warne, Murali, Kumble, Singh, Mushtaq, Saqlain et al - have been replaced by Ajmal and a lot of guys who don't really spin the ball.  I deride Lyon as a clubbie but when the other test players have as their best spinners Panesar, Herath, Petersen, Ashwin, Narine, Martin, al-Hasan he doesn't look quite as bad!

[FvanN]

Steyn
Morkel
Big vern
Ajmal
Siddle

[Alvaro]

I'd pick Mitchell over Siddle in that attack as he'd have to bat seven.

[Alvaro]

and Herath is, if we're honest, nothing special outside of Sri Lanka.

Looking at that list, its worrying to think how a generation of world class spinners/chuckers - Warne, Murali, Kumble, Singh, Mushtaq, Saqlain et al - have been replaced by Ajmal and a lot of guys who don't really spin the ball.  I deride Lyon as a clubbie but when the other test players have as their best spinners Panesar, Herath, Petersen, Ashwin, Narine, Martin, al-Hasan he doesn't look quite as bad!

T20 has killed spin.

[FvanN]

I'd pick Mitchell over Siddle in that attack as he'd have to bat seven.

Yea your probably right.

[SOULMAN1012]

Five man attacks:

Dale Steyn - vs - Mitchell Johnson
Vernon Philander - vs - Ryan Harris
Morne Morkel - vs- Peter Siddle
Ryan McClaren - vs - Shane WAtson
Robin Peterson - vs - Nathan Lyon

What do you think (I'm going to defer my comments for a change!)

Easy this Really

Steyn all day every day twice on Sundays
Harris
Sidle
Mclaren far more reliable as a bowler but Watson as a batter but as were talking about bowling attack mclaren
Lyon not as bad as everyone makes out.

[Manormanic]

T20 has killed spin.

I see why you would say that but I don't think it is quite as simple as that - all of the bowlers I mentioned did fine in their T20 experiences.  I  think it might have as much to do with the move toward Chief Executives Pitches.  Mitchell Johnson or Dale Steyn, bowling well, will be a threat on anything, but none but the best spinner will do much on a slow flat shirtfront.