Print

[smilley792]

I've just been reading this and found it interesting?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2013-14/content/story/727429.html


I find the bit regarding moen Ali having a doosra but is "afraid" to use it, slightly shocking.



Add this to the story about kp at Nottingham, and the kid that turned it both ways and bamboozled every batsmen, but was not signed due to "not fitting" despite kp doing as much as he could to get him a contract.

It doesn't paint a very good picture for the current English mentality, or there future in limited overs cricket.

[Buzz]

I think you can broaden this topic to

"does English cricket kill flare, innovation and individuality"

(answer "yes" - through over coaching rather than allowing technique to be developed)

[Manormanic]

It seems to be the ECB way - I remember on one of my coaching courses seeing one lad repeatedly asked to be the dummy for batting exercises; when he asked the trainer why he was told it was because he had such a rubbish technique. 

Whilst it was a tad bottom handed, it hasn't done him much harm in international cricket or the IPL (guesses on a postcard to...)

[Gingerbusiness]

I've just been reading this and found it interesting?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2013-14/content/story/727429.html


I find the big regarding moen Ali having a doosra but is "afraid" to use it?



Add this to the story about kp at Nottingham, and the kid that turned it both ways and bamboozled every batsmen, but was not signed due to "not fitting" despite kp doing as much as he could to get him a contract.

It doesn't paint a very good picture for the current English mentality, or there future in limited overs cricket.

Like with most things - it is an element of 'Does your face fit'. This is not linked to any race issue may I add.

I was lucky enough to play a very good standard of cricket - even representing England at schoolboy level, but I have seen it first hand.

Some serious talent discarded by certain counties because you will not go and play at a certain club (Usually ones represented on the county selection committee). However, by no means is cricket the only sport that does this.

In terms of killing spinners - I do not think it is the mentality. I think the lack of quality coaching is key here. When I was growing up, I was lucky enough to have John Emburery coach me for 6 months. It made a HUGE difference to have someone who REALLY knew, and understood, spin bowling when I was young.

Many are not that lucky.

[smilley792]

Me I'm not that lucky!


At a young age, very young age(an age in whichever the ecb no longer lets you play senior cricket) I was a spinner and could turn it both ways. Not a doosra mind, leg spin, and off spin. I played both u13 and for the clubs 2nd team. And took wickets!

I was sent to Derbyshire in August, and spent 2months correcting a kink in my arm. Before being discarded as I no longer turned it.

I had always presumed it just went away and I was not Good enough, but the older and wiser I get, and the more I read into stuff like this. I believe I was trained out of the game.
Oh well.


20 years later, I still can't turn it, so bowl quick, but to the dismay of some opponents, I have still have the kink in my arm. Lol

[ProCricketer1982]

So if 'we' as some of the more 'keen' cricketers realise the current methods/thoughts on coaching are bad... Why does everyone bother with the ECB coaching courses?? Surely they mean nothing ?

[smilley792]

So if 'we' as some of the more 'keen' cricketers realise the current methods/thoughts on coaching are bad... Why does everyone bother with the ECB coaching courses?? Surely they mean nothing ?

Ian pont has been saying the ecb kill speed for a while too,

Say yeah why does anyone bother?

[jwebber86]

i think it is the whole english cricket setup. at somerset over the last few years they have had a number of decent young spinners (micheal munday, max waller, george dockerell) but haven't been given the time or support to actual develop their game, especially in the most important sense of actually bowling lots of overs in 4 day cricket. max waller is doing well in the t20 but more as a slow bowler then a spin bowler.

[roco]

I agree and regularly have arguments with the ecb assessors etc but to be accredited etc as a club you need to have ecb qualified coaches

So worried about technique they kill all natural thought and uniqueness

[ProCricketer1982]

I agree and regularly have arguments with the ecb assessors etc but to be accredited etc as a club you need to have ecb qualified coaches

So worried about technique they kill all natural thought and uniqueness

But if I were to start up a coaching school.. The first thing people would say is 'your not qualified'... Even though everyone knows they mean nothing etc.. Just seems weird

[123*]

So if 'we' as some of the more 'keen' cricketers realise the current methods/thoughts on coaching are bad... Why does everyone bother with the ECB coaching courses?? Surely they mean nothing ?

One word: insurance! Imagine if a kid got killed by a bowling machine throwing out a 90mph beamer and you're unqualified, you would no doubt be sued for millions!

[Manormanic]

I was lucky enough to play a very good standard of cricket - even representing England at schoolboy level, but I have seen it first hand.

Been there mate - I remember my first Yorkshire trials - finally got in with six overs of 40 to go and smashed four sixes in 39 (which at 13 on a full size Scarborough ground is pretty useful) only to be told that they "didn't want sloggers".  Now, I don't think I was anywhere near good enough, but I wasn't bad either and would be playing good standard League First XI within nine months and reckoned that a call back for day two and a chance to bat or bowl properly would have been the minimum.

[ProCricketer1982]

One word: insurance! Imagine if a kid got killed by a bowling machine throwing out a 90mph beamer and you're unqualified, you would no doubt be sued for millions!

You can get insurance.. Costs peanuts

[ProCricketer1982]

One word: insurance! Imagine if a kid got killed by a bowling machine throwing out a 90mph beamer and you're unqualified, you would no doubt be sued for millions!

Insurance is easily solved. Assuming the person doing it isn't a moron just for arguments sake. So he's technically as good as any qualified coach.. Only not done the courses.

What actual benefit is there?

[123*]

Insurance is easily solved. Assuming the person doing it isn't a moron just for arguments sake. So he's technically as good as any qualified coach.. Only not done the courses.

What actual benefit is there?

From the course I done (ECB Level 2) there was very little technical information provided, if I knew nothing about cricket beforehand theres no way I'd be able to go out and show someone how to play a pull shot or pick up their technical issues. It was more how to coach, i.e. questioning rather than dictating, which any respectable coach should already be doing! So I agree there's very little point to them, essentially just a box ticking exercise. Can't imagine how bad the Level 1 must be!