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Author Topic: Saeed Ajmal  (Read 22251 times)

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richthekeeper

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Saeed Ajmal
« on: May 22, 2014, 08:12:03 AM »

Posted his best ever FC figures of 13-94 in Worcs' recent game against Essex.

This prompted Michael Vaughan to tweet:

https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/469038348318040064/photo/1

The backlash from Ajmal's people on twitter has been quite amusing.
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jamesisapayne

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 08:25:26 AM »

Ha ha some of those comments are ridiculous.

On the subject of Ajmal's arm though - how the hell can that be legal, it's almost 90 degrees!
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Buzz

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 08:27:05 AM »

spend some time reading the below (there are about 4 articles)

As I have posted elsewhere, I believe there are massive issues with throwing in cricket and it is just as important to sort out cheating in all its forms, rather than just spot fixing.

http://downatthirdman.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/crickets-jerks-angles-and-extensions-or-not-throwing-a-tantrum/
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skip1973

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 08:33:59 AM »

Will get blown up into a racial issue again, they should have stamped it out with murali initially instead of allowing him to continue so Sri lanka could be competitive.
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Gingerbusiness

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 08:37:56 AM »

I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.

All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.

I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.

I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?

Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.

Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 08:42:40 AM by Gingerbusiness »
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Neon Cricket

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 08:40:24 AM »

Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.

Bang on - if Ajmal had only got 1/2 wickets then this wouldn't even make Twitter
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fasteddie

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 08:40:57 AM »

The problem isn't that bowlers chuck, it's that the authorities are to scared to do anything about it.

The sooner they become firmer and adopt a zero tolerance policy the better.

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richthekeeper

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 08:44:12 AM »

opinions about Vaughan aside, I'm sure any bowler who was captured on a photograph with a 90 degree bent arm would be publicly discussed

there are a number of people on twitter who make it their business to highlight "interesting" actions
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Neon Cricket

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 08:48:02 AM »

To be honest I'm a life long Worcs fan... so as long as he keeps getting wickets, I'm quite happy how he does it haha!

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Buzz

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 08:49:51 AM »

I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.

All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.

I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.

I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?

Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.

Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.

Vaughan isn't the issue here.

the issue here is that there are a large number of bowlers around the world who are chucking it, not bowling it. This isn't a racist comment. In England because of the way we are, guys with unusual actions don't make it beyond first class cricket. There are loads of terrible actions in club cricket - we have one at our club - he bowls nicely most of the time, but his effort ball is a massive throw. I am hugely uncomfortable about it and have raised it several times...
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tim2000s

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 08:53:50 AM »

If you are playing at international level, and are pictured representing your country with a 90 degree bend in your arm immediately before it straightens, no matter how many wickets you have, you deserve every bit of scrutiny that you come under. And there are plenty of photos of Ajmal with his arm in that position, plus other "pitchers" in the IPL. Hell, I could bowl spin if I could bowl it like that.

As someone who has had club level batsmen question my action (but interestingly never umpires, and I've played with County level professional umpires standing, nor county level batsmen) it is always a tricky topic.

Fundamentally though, I don't know how you can not look at these photos and the volumes of match footage and not draw the conclusion that there are a significant number of "bowlers" in cricket that simply are not.
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Gingerbusiness

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 08:56:20 AM »

The problem isn't that bowlers chuck, it's that the authorities are to scared to do anything about it.

The sooner they become firmer and adopt a zero tolerance policy the better.

I think it is dangerous for authorities (ICC especially) to go on a witch-hunt over actions.

I think the problem lays with certain domestic cricket board's - where their attitude towards the ICC is to get the lawyers involved and make a huge media circus out of it (The 'American' way - which in some cases, is slightly ironic) - instead of dealing with the issue. Sometimes almost eluding to discrimination and, in turn, racism.

I do not want to pick out groups from this - but I think the ICC is a toothless, outdated organisation of bean counters - happily having a free junket on cricket - who do not really want to rock the boat.
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Number4

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 09:01:09 AM »

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
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uknsaunders

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Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 09:01:48 AM »

I think the issue for Ajmal is he has to chuck his Doosra and so does everyone else. Without it he becomes a decent but not exceptional test bowler. Murali had a genetic defect and Mark Nicholas did a piece in a arm cast with Murali to explain the problem. To me he was a one off and physically couldn't straighten his arm anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBukHqNxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ

Simple answer is to ban the Doosra until somebody can prove it can be bowled legitimately - bizarrely I think only Saqlain managed it but nobody since. Given a Carrom bowl serves a similar purpose I'm surprised many still use the Doosra.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 09:09:57 AM by uknsaunders »
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skip1973

Re: Saeed Ajmal
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 09:04:58 AM »

Cleared under training or laboratory conditions cuts no mustard to me either, people drive a lot differently when they see a police car. 
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