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[Neon Cricket]

That's the ECB view certainly. Most supporters would love to see England with a bona fide mystery spinner who could beguile opposition players. And if they've been proven not to chuck it, even better.

Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...

[fasteddie]

Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...

(If they where English)
The only way Ajmal or Narine would get near the England team is as batsmen. They wouldn't even be allowed to bowl in the nets.

[tim2000s]

Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...

Couldn't disagree more. I certainly don't want a chucker of a mystery spinner bowling for England. As Maurice Holmes has passed the tests then I don't see why he shouldn't play. Sadly there's a level of sarcasm that forum posting doesn't quite convey...

[MD2812]

Be really interesting to see them bowl with monitors on during a game.

Or just to see them bowling in a short sleeve shirt......

[Gingerbusiness]

Couldn't disagree more. I certainly don't want a chucker of a mystery spinner bowling for England. As Maurice Holmes has passed the tests then I don't see why he shouldn't play. Sadly there's a level of sarcasm that forum posting doesn't quite convey...

If you read the Holmes story, it is actually quite sad.

It can go completely the other way (Excuse the pun) if testing is not used 'in the spirit of the game' so to speak.

[uknsaunders]

One does question whether all boards test to the same level. To me it sounds like the ECB/CA are pretty rigorous, maybe too much, but maybe the Asian boards (and SA with Botha) aren't? I could see how it wouldn't be in their interests, particularly with spinning decks. That's not having a pop at them, it's just that I find it odd that an English cricketer who possibly has a legitimate action can be hounded out of the game while an overseas can just walk in and possibly bowl with an arm beyond degrees. I am pretty certain that if the ECB try to investigate Ajmal, it won't go down well!

[Bulldog Cricket]

I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.

All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.

I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.

I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?

Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.

Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.

Who were you cleared by and how ? And why twice ?

[Gingerbusiness]

Who were you cleared by and how ? And why twice ?

First time, It was a bit like the Maurice Holmes thing. In 2001, I was sent by Hants Academy to Bath Uni for tests. They said I bowl with a bent arm but it does not straighten for the off-break/arm ball/over-spinner. They said the quicker ball was right on the 10 degree limit through - and this is the one people think I throw.

Second time, I was called in the TVCL so I arranged a sight test with Ian Gould (For my own piece of mind). He watched me bowl 20 overs in one innings and said "You certainly do not throw it - I don't know what people are moaning about" - and made some reference to some international bowlers...

I am sure the process at test level is much more rigorous but the 1st set seemed very serious to me at the time

[Bulldog Cricket]

Interesting stuff. Always wondered how they did it. So you must have been good for Hampshire to spend all that money and time on you. What happened ? How many games did you play for Hampshire ?

[Gingerbusiness]

Interesting stuff. Always wondered how they did it. So you must have been good for Hampshire to spend all that money and time on you. What happened ? How many games did you play for Hampshire ?

Academy! Nah. I was reasonably good - played for England Schoolboys. Was there at the same time as Tom Burrows and a few others - was only for a year.

The tests - I wasn't the only one. About 3 or 4 of us 'youngsters'.

Was only in the academy for 1 year. The following year went to Somerset academy and then after a year there caught meningitis. That was my 'first class' career done.

I am sure everyone has their own story about being in a football/rugby/football academy etc.

[Bulldog Cricket]

Bit of bad luck then by the sounds of it ? What year were you at Somerset then ? I was playing for the board x1 back then so would have come across you for sure.

[Gingerbusiness]

Bit of bad luck then by the sounds of it ? What year were you at Somerset then ? I was playing for the board x1 back then so would have come across you for sure.

Sent you a PM mate - otherwise we are in danger of taking the threat off topic.

[Tail Ender]

And let's not forget how Daryl Hair was practically attacked and somewhat ostracised when he called no ball as umpire.  Couldn't have filled the umpiring community with confidence to follow suit if they felt an action was questionable.

I still remember seeing people in the crowd holding large, homemade signs reading 'HAIR OR NO HAIR, THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH MURALIS BALLS'

I agree with this. The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali tells you that he was right to call him. Botha was banned from bowling for South Australia in the Sheffield Shield last year after he started chucking it again. And has anyone seen Sachithra Senanayake bowl? He's possibly the worst of the lot!

[mini998]

I agree with this. The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali tells you that he was right to call him. Botha was banned from bowling for South Australia in the Sheffield Shield last year after he started chucking it again. And has anyone seen Sachithra Senanayake bowl? He's possibly the worst of the lot!

Couldn't be more wrong.

ICC changed it because they found out most of  the bowlers are bending their arms up to that limit, even the likes of Mcgrath and Lee if I remember correctly.

[Buzz]

the 15 degree limit was brought in because that was the limit of flex that the human eye could pick up without slow motion technology.

It was triggered by Murali (and Brett Lee and Shoab Acktar) and far less so McGrath - they tested McGrath because he had what was viewed as a totally pure action - and found there was a certain amount of flex in his bowling (not close to 15 degrees though, from memory)

Regardless - there are a number of bowlers chucking the ball in cricket and I don't believe that is fair - there are far better ways to even the contest between bat and ball (like faster bouncier pitches) before we allow people to throw, which is actually dangerous at high speeds because it is much harder to pick up line and length than a true action