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[dirkbat]

Don't think anyone's mentioned it but I'm sure bola make a softer ball for their machines hiviz or something ?!? Maybe using them ?

[uknsaunders]

I go back to a chat with a "friend" of Andrew Strauss. This guy runs the colts at my old club and Strauss son trains there.

He was explaining to me that Strauss, after retirement, good still face a bowling machine at full whack (took it to mean 80+) with his son operating it. He was also in superb physical condition and could probably play a very high standard without picking up a bat. The discussion went the same way as this topic, basically Strauss had so many physical attributes in his favour that it separated the country pro's from the test players, just that 1-2%. The training only takes you so far.

It would be fun to see what could be made of somebody with talent but playing a low level, with the right training.

[GarrettJ]

some people are talented, ie they can just do something without training

I remember this lad down the road who i once played badminton with at the youth club. Both of us had never played before, i found it easy. This lad physically couldnt hit the shuttle cock. I mean he threw it up to serve and just kept missing it over and over again. I just dont think sport was in his blood. He couldnt paly footy or run very fast either but he was an excellent artist. Me, i cant draw at all.

[Kez]

There are loads of colours of bola balls, we have white, pink, yellow,orange and red.

Also Shiv Chanderpaul's daily warm up pre game is c.200 balls on 89mph with half on 5 inswing and half on 5 away swing. Set on a good length to hit the top of off.

[tim2000s]

some people are talented, ie they can just do something without training

I remember this lad down the road who i once played badminton with at the youth club. Both of us had never played before, i found it easy. This lad physically couldnt hit the shuttle cock. I mean he threw it up to serve and just kept missing it over and over again. I just dont think sport was in his blood. He couldnt paly footy or run very fast either but he was an excellent artist. Me, i cant draw at all.

This, exactly!

[The Palmist]

Innate talent doesn't exist, nobody comes out the womb playing the cover drive do they?

I have a kid on the way and I have been reading all the cricket diaries, batting blogs etc. I can find to my Mrs. I am making her watch as much cricket as possible. So little palmist better come out with at least a straight bat, we will see about cover drive etc. later.

I will let you know if this works, will be a few years till I find out, all going well.

[trypewriter]

Innate talent doesn't exist, nobody comes out the womb playing the cover drive do they?

Of course it does - you could get any number of guys with exactly the same physique as Usain Bolt but they wouldn't be able to run anywhere near as fast - even with as much training as you like to give them.

You can train someone to produce the exact mechanics of a beautiful cover drive, but can they do it to an 85mph delivery?

[edge]

There was a good quote from a Team Sky (cycling) coach/science type on this a while back - interview asked him what he thought the difference between professional cyclists and normal people was. His reply was that physiologically, probably 90% of the population could make it as a professional (given dedication, training, coaching etc). However, only the top 1-2% would ever have a chance of winning anything, rather than just being a team support rider.

Natural talent is probably more important in cricket than most sports, but the example probably carries over - most good club players probably have the reactions/physiological attributes to play top level bowling given the training etc, but it's the practice, coaching, and (importantly) mental drive that separates the professionals from the rest of us, and then only the very very best of the pros make the step up to international level.
There was a really interesting study into the difference in reaction/decisions between top batsmen/average clubbies when facing quick bowling, but I can't find it again. As I recall the basic conclusion was that the reaction times are not significantly different from pros to ams, and the difference in performance was down to unconscious reactions as you can't react quickly enough at those speeds of bowling. This would seem to imply innate ability is key, but is pretty open to interpretation.

[RightArmRapid]

Is there such a thing?

I'm sure you've read 10,000 hours?

Innate talent doesn't exist, nobody comes out the womb playing the cover drive do they?

Lawrence Okoye was in the olympics after 2 years of discus training, Usain bolt had only ran the 100m for 1 year before setting the world record, some poeple are naturally faster, stronger and more coordinated than others without any training or practice involved, there are 25 year old sprinters who have trained their whole lives who struggle to match the times set by 17-18 year olds. When people say it's all about talent/genetic potential it's of course unfair as it discounts all of the effort put in by some of these athletes but talent factors in the top level of pretty much everything and to say it doesn't exist is a load of rubbish really, I'm sure at school if you played lots of sports there were some people who were just better at it despite hardly training at all.

[ProCricketer1982]

As someone who in just a few short years has gone from never playing a game or having any coaching to where I am now I think that whilst natural talent has an impact training/coaching is massively undervalued.

My reasons are:

I could play nothing off my legs other than block it and now I pick off everything. Purely though hours and hours on the bowling machine. Same with the pull, I couldn't play it to fast bowling.. Now I love nothing more than some idiot at 75-80 banging it in.. Boom.. 4 .. Cheers. Dude. Why, purely because I have trained for hours on the machine. No coaching.

Same with other shots. John g is correct as well that if we stuck someone facing 85 they'd struggle but again, the. Ore you face it the better you get. Slowly but surely you pick it up quicker and can react to he lengths etc. Not saying you can come out and start playing fantastic Ian bell cover drives but you could probably at least not look a complete buffoon and get knocked over quickly.

The top lads have had it all generally. They've been to private schools (generally) where they are exposed to cricket from an early age.. They get far superior coaching at an early age, play on good wickets rather than crap ones.. They get exposed to bowling machines etc.. Coaching and all that jazz. It's no surprise that most pros are rich kids or scholarships.

I'm not saying I or anyone else could be a pro. All I think is it comes a lot down to life circumstance, how many doors are opened for you when you are young and then add in the natural ability, dedication etc.

I'm not the only one I know whose noticed this, a lad I had netting regularly last winter went from 200 ish runs a season to over 1000 and batted properly. Now a 15 yr old girl I've been helping is having England trials. Again, she's spent hours on the machine over the last year or two and has gone from a 'we don't think you are good enough', to 'one of the best bats woman's in the glos women's teams'. Nothing to do with me coaching as I do nothing other than feed, help, advise and keep her motivated. She's improving through her own will and hours of training. Now suddenly she's getting coaching and improving even faster.. Shock horror,

[123*]

As someone who in just a few short years has gone from never playing a game or having any coaching to where I am now I think that whilst natural talent has an impact training/coaching is massively undervalued.

My reasons are:

I could play nothing off my legs other than block it and now I pick off everything. Purely though hours and hours on the bowling machine. Same with the pull, I couldn't play it to fast bowling.. Now I love nothing more than some idiot at 75-80 banging it in.. Boom.. 4 .. Cheers. Dude. Why, purely because I have trained for hours on the machine. No coaching.

Same with other shots. John g is correct as well that if we stuck someone facing 85 they'd struggle but again, the. Ore you face it the better you get. Slowly but surely you pick it up quicker and can react to he lengths etc. Not saying you can come out and start playing fantastic Ian bell cover drives but you could probably at least not look a complete buffoon and get knocked over quickly.

The top lads have had it all generally. They've been to private schools (generally) where they are exposed to cricket from an early age.. They get far superior coaching at an early age, play on good wickets rather than crap ones.. They get exposed to bowling machines etc.. Coaching and all that jazz. It's no surprise that most pros are rich kids or scholarships.

I'm not saying I or anyone else could be a pro. All I think is it comes a lot down to life circumstance, how many doors are opened for you when you are young and then add in the natural ability, dedication etc.

I'm not the only one I know whose noticed this, a lad I had netting regularly last winter went from 200 ish runs a season to over 1000 and batted properly. Now a 15 yr old girl I've been helping is having England trials. Again, she's spent hours on the machine over the last year or two and has gone from a 'we don't think you are good enough', to 'one of the best bats woman's in the glos women's teams'. Nothing to do with me coaching as I do nothing other than feed, help, advise and keep her motivated. She's improving through her own will and hours of training. Now suddenly she's getting coaching and improving even faster.. Shock horror,

Really, 80mph thanks for coming?!

[cleanbowled]

It is an interesting debate, I think the top echeleon of most sports requires some sort of innate talent. Generally, the most prolific sportspeople (regardless of the sport) are a combination of innate talent which has been honed by years and countless hours of hardwork, practice and coaching. I also think some sports require more innate talent than others - eg athletics  - someone mentioned Usain Bolt - thats just a freak athlete and regardless of how much hard work most other sprinters put in (and these elite sprinters are already far superior to the average person) they will not catch up. I think in sports where some sort of physcial edge is a must, you need to be blessed with that trait - hard work etc can only go so far.

Regarding the 10000 hour rule, I think that was in Malcolm Gladwell's book and if I remember correctly the examples he suggested included things like programming, playing musical instruments, I think maybe golf - these are activities where more practice can in fact get you to a pretty special level (chess is another example Gladwell used). Athletic pursuits are a different matter at the elite level, and no amount of training can compensate for someone lacking certain physical traits. You can get better, yes, but you won't be an Usain Bolt or a Michael Jordan etc.

Using baseball as an example - I was reading an article yesterday that many of the batters have vison that is far superior to the normal 20/20 vision, I think one of them had 20/11 which is a huge edge. I am sure a number of top batsmen may be similarly blessed and have above normal reflexes and hand eye coordination. Similarly very few bowlers in history have been of genuine express pace, so they must have had some physical edge that the others (hundreds of other international bowlers) did not have.

[cleanbowled]

Going back to the original video - I am not sure if they are using tennis balls - but if they are, I am not sure that will really work out. A tennis ball once released by the machine would lose so much more pace through the air and once it bounces of the pitch as compared to a cricket ball. I think it would give a false sense of security and confidence. A tennis ball once it reaches the batsmen would have lost so much more velocity compared to a cricket ball that it would really be more like facing a cricket ball at say 75mph (for example) rather than the 90 the machine was set to. Which kinda beats the point in my opinion.

[ProCricketer1982]

Really, 80mph thanks for coming?!

Oh sorry, forgot you were there all those machine sessions and sessions with a Sommerset bowler this winter. My mistake.

[ProCricketer1982]

I've put a tennis ball through the machine before and it actually comes out slowly. Doesn't really get down to the batsmen either so it's worse than useless. Again, john g was right, chances are you'd have to use a tennis racket.