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[leeroy]

Let's see what happens when the Pakistanis go to Australia and bat on pitches with pace abc bounce...

Pakistan are a spineless team. They'll fold like a deck of cards.

Yeah its pretty much a given hahaha. I wish we could just fight a bit harder when not in Australia.

[Gerry SA]

Yeah its pretty much a given hahaha. I wish we could just fight a bit harder when not in Australia.

It doesn't help that Michael Clarke can't stay fully fit. He's the engine of the australian batting. When he's not on full power. The younger players look confused/clueless.

[leeroy]

It doesn't help that Michael Clarke can't stay fully fit. He's the engine of the australian batting. When he's not on full power. The younger players look confused/clueless.

Its disappointing that Clarke is the only batsman from his generation that really forged a good test career. Its only older or younger guys.

[Gerry SA]

Its disappointing that Clarke is the only batsman from his generation that really forged a good test career. Its only older or younger guys.

I think Warner and Smith are the men whom will have to carry Pup's burden.

[brokenbat]

Let's see what happens when the Pakistanis go to Australia and bat on pitches with pace abc bounce...

Pakistan are a spineless team. They'll fold like a deck of cards.

I love the hyperbole here.. "Unsporting pitches". "Spineless team". The reality is a lot more simple: Australian batsman can't handle spin, and their bowlers can't BOWL spin or reverse swing.. while, Pak batsmen can't handle pace and bounce. This is why, with the exception of S.A, teams have struggled in foreign conditions (Aus winning in SA was a great achievement, but the pitches there were similar to those in AUS). Nothing to do with spine, or lack thereof. 

[Gerry SA]

The difference is Australia are actually bowling. Whereas pakistan have an endless supply of 'spinners' with dodgy actions better suited to darts than cricket...

[joeljonno]

The difference is Australia are actually bowling. Whereas pakistan have an endless supply of 'spinners' with dodgy actions better suited to darts than cricket...

The Aussie bowlers are List A at best.

[brokenbat]

The difference is Australia are actually bowling. Whereas pakistan have an endless supply of 'spinners' with dodgy actions better suited to darts than cricket...

like who?

[brokenbat]

The difference is Australia are actually bowling. Whereas pakistan have an endless supply of 'spinners' with dodgy actions better suited to darts than cricket...

I guess Shane Warne is an idiot then, for applauding one of these dart throwers.

[Cover_Drive]

Quite amused and made me chuckle reading few posts here, by no means being a Pro-Pakistani but talking from neutral prepective.

Dead track or no, both team batsman have equal opportunity and same conditions to score runs, both opposition, Australia and New Zealand contained top players who failed with bat. If you as a batsman can score in bowling friendly conditions then it should be very easy to play on flat decks.

Not being able to play spin is futile, absolutely really. As a professional you should know. It's like saying a Doctor not knowing how to suture is a top doctor, surgeron or not, every Doctor knows it as its very basic thing. Similarly spin is basic and been part of game for as long as pace owning have been.

Pakistani bowlers combined were possibly less experienced than Australian and New Zealand's twelft man even, yet the pacers performed while opposition contained MUCH better pacers who failed miserably. Two specialist bowlers in Pakistani line-up made debuts while other two specialist had just few games under there belt.

Quite a contradiction really.

[Cover_Drive]

Every match in the middle East is pretty much decided by the toss.

PAK vs SA. Both sides batted first in the Test that they won the toss. They dominated those respective matches.

Pak won both matches against Australia after batting first in both matches.

Against PAK piled the runs on against nz after winning the toss and batting first.

Pakistan are very ordinary. You know the conditions are rubbish when mediocre players like Misbah, Ali, Shahzed etc are racking up 100s for fun.

Whitewashed the same Australian side who trashed England in Ashes and then won against Proteas, not what an ordinary team can do.

[potzy248]

Quite amused and made me chuckle reading few posts here, by no means being a Pro-Pakistani but talking from neutral prepective.

Dead track or no, both team batsman have equal opportunity and same conditions to score runs, both opposition, Australia and New Zealand contained top players who failed with bat. If you as a batsman can score in bowling friendly conditions then it should be very easy to play on flat decks.

Not being able to play spin is futile, absolutely really. As a professional you should know. It's like saying a Doctor not knowing how to suture is a top doctor, surgeron or not, every Doctor knows it as its very basic thing. Similarly spin is basic and been part of game for as long as pace owning have been.

Pakistani bowlers combined were possibly less experienced than Australian and New Zealand's twelft man even, yet the pacers performed while opposition contained MUCH better pacers who failed miserably. Two specialist bowlers in Pakistani line-up made debuts while other two specialist had just few games under there belt.

Quite a contradiction really.

I don't see the contradiction.

Pakistan managed to see off some of the very best Seam bowlers on flat dead tracks and then face sub standard spinners who were like cannon fodder to these guys.

Pakistan would then open with their much better spin bowlers take out the top 5 and then let their Seamers who have bowled really well use reverse swing.

These tracks have been made for Pakistan. Yes our batters were average but when you see how many runs the Pakistan batters have scored who IMO are not very good at all, then something is up.

[Cover_Drive]

I don't see the contradiction.

Pakistan managed to see off some of the very best Seam bowlers on flat dead tracks and then face sub standard spinners who were like cannon fodder to these guys.

Pakistan would then open with their much better spin bowlers take out the top 5 and then let their Seamers who have bowled really well use reverse swing.

These tracks have been made for Pakistan. Yes our batters were average but when you see how many runs the Pakistan batters have scored who IMO are not very good at all, then something is up.

As I said, opposition had/has much better players than those "average" Pakistani players who scored then why weren't they successful? Why didn't they score?

Spin is no excuse, as a professional you have to be prepared and should be equipped to face all sort of variations. Spin is not new invention to cricket.

Facing seam bowling is never easy for any batsman, Pakistani batsman did well to see off. They applied themselves, hence, scored. Tom Latham did and scored a century.

[potzy248]

When you open with spin then IMO there is something wrong. I rest my case and agree to disagree.

[armie]

Back after a while and reading this post, i am a bit shocked. A number of people seem to be almost whinging about dead pitches, spinning pitches, batting pitches and blah blah blah. The fact is that conditions are different. if sub-continent road are bad, how about the Aussie concrete slabs? Too much spin may be bad but what about too much bounce?  That is fine coz Aussies win? that is beyond lame.

All teams have the right to take advantage of home conditions and this is Pakistan is doing, live with it folks. If Aussies and Kiwis have been below par, unable to bat out a decent period against a bowling attack barely ten test matches old, may be the bowling wasnt tripe, perhaps the batting was. The over used mantra of "brand of aggressive cricket" didn't help.

As for Pakistani batsmen that are so ordinary yet they managed 13 hundreds in 3 tests, well i guess they are getting their act together. And if Johnson and Siddle aren't good enough to get wickets, they aren't good enough, period. Stop expecting other teams to make fast bouncy pitches so that aussies and kiwis can come in and have the upper hand. the fact is that Aussies were below par and kiwis have often been troubled by Pakistan, even when they themselves were in trouble. This is cricket, someone will play better. While i expect Pakistan to have a tough time in aussie conditions, i see no reason why we should not use our own conditions to our own use. Just like other teams, its our choice to make flat roads or spinning minefields.