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[FattusCattus]

I'm going to throw Roland-Jones into the equation. From the bits I have seen, I think he has as much about him as Tom Curran.

[Alvaro]

Don't forget he was in the squad for the Lord's Test. TRJ is a great county bowler, but does he have the required nip?

[Seniorplayer]

Woakes is quality for England and has been for quite a while. India aside where very few can say anything.

Woakes is a quality all rounder and I expect him to get better and the improvent he has shown.

I

Well  Dave can he get any worse  also with just two fiftys in 17 tests wouldnt call him a quality all rounder

[procricket]

I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything

[Seniorplayer]

I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything

Yes he's quick but isn't  a fit and firing Mark wood quicker

[procricket]

Yes he's quick but isn't  a fit and firing Mark wood quicker

Thought we are talking about all rounders

And when Wood gonna happen ? 

End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well

[Seniorplayer]

Thought we are talking about all rounders

And when Wood gonna happen ? 

End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well

Don't dislike him just don't believe he is good enough to be called an all rounder  or should currently be in the England team also can't see what he's done to quoted as a proven test cricketer one good season on green tops is okay but you have to be consistent around the world with bat and ball.

[tate035]

I would say he will grow more into the role.

You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.

Also our quickest bowler

So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything

Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes?  not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..

[Woodyspin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HnQ8fLVVU&ab_channel=CricketArchivesHD why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...

and one of the strangest keeping techniques i've ever seen

[dcullen8]

why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...

Little James Taylor would of solved all these problems!

[procricket]

Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes?  not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..

I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.

[ppccopener]

I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.

the thing is bowling in the sub continent our medium pacers look ordinary, they all do. it been they case for as long as I can remember touring there.

As you rightly say thou Woakes is actually our quickest bowler and I'd never have though that a couple of years ago, I wondered prob with a lot of others why we picked the guy.

But he's come on and improving massively, we need his pace and having seen Jake Ball bowl as well-he is quick and gets bounce. we need guys to take over from Anderson eventually, it's going to be Woakes i'm sure, he is a proper batter too although agreed he has not batted well this tour.

Where I agree with @Seniorplayer is this 'genuine allrounder' tag, Stokes is by far the best we have and maybe already as good as Flintoff was, maybe could be as good as Botham.

Woakes is not in that category, but I would still have him in the side pretty much one of the first names. IMHO. 

[tate035]

the thing is bowling in the sub continent our medium pacers look ordinary, they all do. it been they case for as long as I can remember touring there.

As you rightly say thou Woakes is actually our quickest bowler and I'd never have though that a couple of years ago, I wondered prob with a lot of others why we picked the guy.

But he's come on and improving massively, we need his pace and having seen Jake Ball bowl as well-he is quick and gets bounce. we need guys to take over from Anderson eventually, it's going to be Woakes i'm sure, he is a proper batter too although agreed he has not batted well this tour.

Where I agree with @Seniorplayer is this 'genuine allrounder' tag, Stokes is by far the best we have and maybe already as good as Flintoff was, maybe could be as good as Botham.

Woakes is not in that category, but I would still have him in the side pretty much one of the first names. IMHO. 

Excellent post... I still believe the fitter Stokes gets and the more overs he gets under his belt then he would be promoted up the bowling order.
The swing he produced against the Aussies was no fluke and when he wants to he does produce a nasty short ball.
I really hope England carry on using tall quick bowlers because they can often get something other bowlers can't.
For me though and with all injuries to one side.. I would open with Anderson and wood in.the next 12 months.

[FattusCattus]

A lot of people talking Wood up - I don't think he's ever going to be a test bowler. It doesn't look as if England would ever get 3 consecutive tests out of him and it would be disruptive to try to keep shoe-horning him into the side.

Look at where the Aussies were waiting for Cummins and Pattinson, it just doesn't happen for them.

[tate035]

A lot of people talking Wood up - I don't think he's ever going to be a test bowler. It doesn't look as if England would ever get 3 consecutive tests out of him and it would be disruptive to try to keep shoe-horning him into the side.

Look at where the Aussies were waiting for Cummins and Pattinson, it just doesn't happen for them.

TBH cat that's why I said injuries aside. I have seen a lot of him up North and he will need to get games under his belt before he gets into his rhythm but when you see how he cleaned up Joe Root last year then surely it's worth trying to get him fit.
Infact if you look world wide at fast bowlers,  not many go injury free. Broady, Anderson, Stark, Cummins, Steyn have all missed a big chunk of games in last 2 years..