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[Seniorplayer]

Fair enough I can see how you would see that

When it says disciplinary procedures have been opened that worries me as surely wait to see what result of police investigation is then decide what action to take

Hopefully they are doing what you say and will make a decision on severity or ban or fine after police decide if they have enough grounds to charge.

Looks like procedure is being followed  which ECB need to be seen doing they can't do much else  now  it's down to  invesigations which will as you say decide on what action to take if any at all.

[jamielsn15]

In any walk of life suspending someone on full pay pending an investigation is common. Its essentially saying you're innocent until proven guilty,  whilst acknowledging there is an issue that is deemed serious enough to suspend someone from their job.

He's brought his employer into disrepute. I worked with a guy who got sacked after being convicted of drink driving. No jail term, but it was in the local rag,  named his employer and they sacked him.

The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.

[Neon Cricket]

The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.

This for me - had he stopped when the guy hit the ground the first time then maybe, just maybe, he'd have got a ticking off and a slap on the wrist. It's what ensued afterwards is the issue I should think - ECB have made the right move, it's just a case of seeing where the police take things now

Either way it's (No Swearing Please) our plans for a good winter!!

[Biggie Smalls]

I haven't  checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ? 

[roco]

Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it

[golders]

Little preview of the winter

Lol even Bayliss said he likes to snick off. We need a consistent number 3,but not a number 3 that consistently snicks off!

[InternalTraining]

I haven't  checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ? 

Yeah, Stokes got drunk and thought he was in the MMA octogon.

[jamielsn15]

Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it

I completely get that and agree. Reasonable force is a grey area and its up to the police to determine that.

But the moment i start to feel for him i keep coming back to what the hell were you doing there?!

[smilley792]

Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground

In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it

Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.




So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.

[roco]

Seems to be a few on here would be happier with that headline

True put beer into the mix makes it even harder

Until we know the full details of why it started and went so far I for one won't praise or scold

[Biggie Smalls]

People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type  of situations.  Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or  maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
 . Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head  who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble?  I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .

[Big Mac]

Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.




So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.

If we're going to start making up imaginary headlines for scenarios that didn't happen then I'd have much preferred something along the lines of "England Star Stokes Embers of Tolerance" accompanied by a nice story about how he bought everyone a drink and sat them down to discuss why homophobia and violence are very, very naughty.

But seeing as none of that is what happens why don't we focus on what actually did happen? A couple of England players got into a drunken brawl in the middle of an international series that put someone in the hospital, the hammer needs to come down on them.

[roco]

People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type  of situations.  Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or  maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
 . Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head  who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble?  I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .

Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking

[Biggie Smalls]

Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking

Defend yourself while under threat , don't when not . If defending yourself might risk maiming or killing someone perhaps try a plan b if possible ie in a lot if situations there is the choice of just standing there and watching the guy back off , or there is a choice of running away . Ive come to the conclusion that doing the minimal to get  out alive ( and everyone else for that matter) is much better that 'finishing what someone else starts' / 'giving someone what they deserve' etc . My ego isn't so infantile anymore that i need to prove that i can floor someone , and my sense of justice isnt so warped as to punish someone physically beyond pure self defence .
When watching that video i noticed thst at no time was any single person backed into a corner . Every single person in that situation (other when that one guy was on the ground having his noggin rearranged ) had other options at their disposal other than the ones they chose to act upon .

[Biggie Smalls]

Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues

I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking

Ive also been a similar position many moons ago . It was dismissed because i could prove i only did the bare minimum to protect myself .
If you did the same then you should have been treated the same way i was  . If you chased after guys once their weapons (cues , bottles, whatever the case may be) were no longer available to them , and once they had stopped attacking you (and were actually backing off) then it would be a different case altogether .