England test tour to New Zealand
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #135 on: March 22, 2018, 08:54:24 AM »
Quote from: Neon Cricket on March 22, 2018, 08:47:25 AM
"Apart from the 2 double tons including an unbeaten 244* in the Ashes..."

Are we really doing this? Comical
Feel free to state what he offered in the remaining 4 Ashes matches...he was Starc's bunny. Only time he scored runs was when the pitch was atrocious and Starc didn't play
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alexhilly1492

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #136 on: March 22, 2018, 09:17:35 AM »
Quote from: Mister Le Chiffre on March 22, 2018, 08:54:24 AM
Feel free to state what he offered in the remaining 4 Ashes matches...he was Starc's bunny. Only time he scored runs was when the pitch was atrocious and Starc didn't play

So what your saying is, cook is (No Swearing Please) when he doesn’t score hundreds?

Thats the same for every batsman to ever play the game!

Yes he form has been up or down and it’s all or nothing but you can’t discount those runs he still made them and the matter of a road and no starc you can only play what’s in front of you!
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six and out

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #137 on: March 22, 2018, 09:25:31 AM »
The thing that worries me the most is that the selection of the side in completely incorrect. I really don't get how they can think selecting that bowling attack if Stokes can't bowl will do well. Everyone simply bowls exactly the same! And Mo is bowling dreadful at the moment.

Forget about Overton's batting thats not what he's selected for.
Surely if Stokes can't bowl you have to pick Wood or even Leach. You have to offer something different as we saw in the ashes.

Yes the batting was completely woeful and it is concerning but that happens. The NZ batsman and especially Williamson went out there and were able to play it with their eyes shut.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #138 on: March 22, 2018, 09:45:45 AM »
Well

Umm

Yeah


Umm

Can’t say it’s not been coming with this group of batsmen sadly, although no one would have expected it to be so bad
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2018, 09:46:38 AM »
Quote from: Kulli on March 22, 2018, 07:54:30 AM
I've nothing against D/N tests, in fact I like that it's a bit forwards thinking, but are they still only able to get 10k people through the gates for an opening day of a series in comfortably the biggest city in the country, that's piss poor.

Probably more than they got for the loved white ball stuff
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2018, 09:50:10 AM »
Quote from: billyb on March 22, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
This was our side on the NZ tour back in 2012-13. We've lost great players, but we're definitely heading backwards.
That batting side was talented, yes- but it had a seriously strong spine to it, too. I don't see players putting a high price on their wicket in our team anymore.
Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson remain. Have we made advances in any of the other positions, really?

Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar

You will struggle to produce players technically and mentally capable of playing long innings in hard situations in the modern era. It’s Boring to hear and many on here like to biff and so does most of this side. They simply can’t cope with a moving ball and All want to play positive Cricket.. root plays one day cricket in tests which he is very good at but that means he just isn’t suitable for top 3.the rest are just the same only less good.

We have no pace, no spinner but we are very good on green tops and keeping the run rate down.. it’s almost like they’ve become good at drying up run rates and waiting for a batter to give it away.. aka white ball
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #141 on: March 22, 2018, 09:51:03 AM »
Quote from: procricket on March 22, 2018, 08:48:33 AM
It is it really is.

Ben Stokes playing as a batsman only is not great.  However good he is he a 1 in 5 player and you need a bit more at 5 or a top line batsman (yes he box office and yes a match winner but not as a batsman alone for me).

However you need a bit more from the guys in front of him to infact all of them our batting has been woeful for a long time. Mark Stoneman is not good enough top socre of 54 in 14 innings is not what your after.

Bairstow is wasted at 6 or 7.

Moeen Ali should not be playing

We do not have enough specalists because cricket has gone to the utility  players as dictated by one day cricket.

We also need to draft in a quick soon or speed one through the system.

As for the batting well where to start i would suggest not many of them can really say over the last dozen tests they have done enough.
Listen to Dave..
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #142 on: March 22, 2018, 09:52:01 AM »
Quote from: six and out on March 22, 2018, 09:25:31 AM
The thing that worries me the most is that the selection of the side in completely incorrect. I really don't get how they can think selecting that bowling attack if Stokes can't bowl will do well. Everyone simply bowls exactly the same! And Mo is bowling dreadful at the moment.

Forget about Overton's batting thats not what he's selected for.
Surely if Stokes can't bowl you have to pick Wood or even Leach. You have to offer something different as we saw in the ashes.

Yes the batting was completely woeful and it is concerning but that happens. The NZ batsman and especially Williamson went out there and were able to play it with their eyes shut.

You realise stokes is the same type of bowler again right ?? He’s not fast.....
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FattusCattus

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #143 on: March 22, 2018, 09:58:23 AM »
Typically, they underestimated NZ and overestimated the effectiveness of their own side, and surely questions about Bayliss' test credentials must start to be asked?

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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #144 on: March 22, 2018, 10:02:32 AM »
Quote from: FattusCattus on March 22, 2018, 09:58:23 AM
Typically, they underestimated NZ and overestimated the effectiveness of their own side, and surely questions about Bayliss' test credentials must start to be asked?

Would this set of players actually be capable of playing any differently under another coach ?? I don’t disagree he should go but realistically, what can anyone else do with this group of players given how they play
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #145 on: March 22, 2018, 10:02:50 AM »
The Moeen experiment can be shelved as well. Aside from a couple of flukey efforts against India and South Africa, his bowling is pants. We don't need a wild slogger at 7/8. Pick a proper spinner.
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Manormanic

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #146 on: March 22, 2018, 10:06:40 AM »
Quote from: billyb on March 22, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
This was our side on the NZ tour back in 2012-13. We've lost great players, but we're definitely heading backwards.
That batting side was talented, yes- but it had a seriously strong spine to it, too. I don't see players putting a high price on their wicket in our team anymore.
Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson remain. Have we made advances in any of the other positions, really?

Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar

Bairstow is an improvement on Prior. Otherwise, agreed.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #147 on: March 22, 2018, 10:08:51 AM »
The reality is we don’t have suitable top 3 batsmen in the test team and we don’t appear to have anyone in county Cricket. The one player who looked like he might have the mental and technical ability has an issue with low hands and so he short ball and was told he had to expand his shots.. consequently he’s shot

Cook has gone but there isn’t anyone better to replace him.

We have a load of players all suited to 5/6/7 in test cricket it’s the bat.. he reality is our game from grass roots to the top just isn’t geared to producing players capable of batting long and valuing their wicket. It’s set up for players to have go.

Bowling wise, when you only need to bowl tight and wait for a batter to get out (white ball), you lose the need for genuine pace or the other skills fast bowlers of the past had.. let alone spinner (rather than fire it in merchants )

It is what it is though and no coach or selector change will make the blind bit of difference. The problems are with the system, the coaches and only the ECB can do anything about that
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #148 on: March 22, 2018, 10:09:37 AM »
Quote from: Manormanic on March 22, 2018, 10:06:40 AM
Bairstow is an improvement on Prior. Otherwise, agreed.

Is he ?? I’m nit sure Bairstow has shown enough to say that
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FattusCattus

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2018, 10:16:12 AM »
Quote from: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 22, 2018, 10:02:32 AM
Would this set of players actually be capable of playing any differently under another coach ?? I don’t disagree he should go but realistically, what can anyone else do with this group of players given how they play

I think some have shown in the past (and present) that they can adapt to the test game -

Cook
Root
Malan

Stokes is an all rounder, a luxury in the Botham mould and will come off occasionally, and should not be considered as a top 5 batter

With Stokes and Bairstow in the side as 2 x genuine all rounders, the Ali role is redundant, pick a proper spinner.

If we haven't got a quick, then we can't pick one, so lets work with what we have I guess.

Personally, I think it might be time to take a bit of short term pain for long term gain and make a couple of tough decisions.

Is it time to accept that Stoneman and Vince won't make it?

Bairstow to 4 as a batter only, Malan at 5 and Stokes at 6 with a batting keeper such as Foakes at 7

Ali to return to white ball

Is Woakes a genuine test match wicket-taker?

Has Broad got much penetration left to offer?

Are we brave enough to blood the Lion-cubs?

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