Serbian Willow
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KettonJake

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2020, 04:47:49 PM »

so in conclusion, anyone could be using it. some knowingly some perhaps unknowingly  :( :o

Potentially yes.

At the beginning it seemed to me like Serbian willow would be no different to Canadian willow or the other attempts we've seen over the years. The ones I saw early on were all quite big and light, with erratic grain structure (i.e. two bats at the same price, one could be perfect in terms of grains, the other could be a right mess) and a tendency to not last very long.

BUT, going by the ones I've seen more recently, and the clefts on show on that Instagram page, there seems to be a lot more consistency. Time will tell on whether they last as well as English willow.
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Jimbo

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2020, 04:52:45 PM »

Do any UK makers actively offer Serbian willow bats as an option now?
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jonny77

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2020, 04:56:08 PM »

Generally speaking I'd agree, although Kookaburra and GN both had junior (and a handful of senior) bats made from what they called 'alternative willow' and 'European willow' a few years ago. The definition in the catalogues was pretty ambiguous and not as clear cut as the difference between English and Kashmir willow for example. For a retailer who perhaps offers multiple sports and doesn't really check (but is still more than reputable) it would have been an easy mistake to have sold these bats as English willow and a customer would be none the wiser.

I think Kook and GN (and anyone else who was at it) have tightened up on this and made things clearer now.
The issues will lie with brands who get bats made (especially if made overseas) by a third party. I am purely using them as an example and not making any accusations or suggestions at all, but lets say SG decide they are going to buy in a load of Serbian willow and replace the lower end of the English willow range without telling anyone, Kookaburra will end up with a load of Serbian bats that they don't know are Serbian.

Knowing how certain parts of the industry work, this isn't beyond the realms of possibility at all. So yes, you could walk into a reputable retailer, ask for a bat from a reputable brand, the retailer and the catalogue both say it is English willow, the brand has sold it at an English willow price to the retailer, and purchased it themselves at an English willow price from the manufacturer. Only the manufacturer knows what it is.

Appreciate that and your knowledge I'd the industry is far greater than mine @KettonJake, but you would hope that anyone making bats for a major brand wouldn't try to pull this off would they? Maybe I'm just being naive, as I expect anyone to treat people with respect and honesty.

Kook and GNs junior bats were still not advertised as English Willow though, which is fair enough imo. Appreciate this can cause confusion, but they're not passing this off as English Willow
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alba caerulea

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2020, 05:20:06 PM »

Salix Alba grown in Serbia (or somewhere along central Europe) would be different in what manner to grown in England?

Same as any plant, its health and characteristics will be determined by its habitat and climate.

Cricket bat willow is native to UK so millions of years of evolution (or God if you are religious) have strengthened it genetically to succeed here. I dont know if it is native to Serbia but if the growing conditions can be replicated theres no reason why the end product wont be as good.

Of course this is hard to do with trees.
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alba caerulea

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2020, 05:21:51 PM »

When you cross reference the address from the place in serbia and see their export history to pakistan some shocking discoveries can be made. A free account on the website pak.eximtradeinfo.com reveals the 5 most recent exports with names such as Aamir sports, Ihsan, MA sports. If you wanna dig deeper into the rabbit hole and get a paid account you can see more earlier results and then names like CA, HS, CX and AS pop up...

One more reason not to buy from these brands!
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KettonJake

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2020, 05:45:19 PM »

Appreciate that and your knowledge I'd the industry is far greater than mine @KettonJake, but you would hope that anyone making bats for a major brand wouldn't try to pull this off would they? Maybe I'm just being naive, as I expect anyone to treat people with respect and honesty.

Kook and GNs junior bats were still not advertised as English Willow though, which is fair enough imo. Appreciate this can cause confusion, but they're not passing this off as English Willow

My thoughts on how it was marketed during the time I am familiar with (2016ish) is that the Serbian bats were listed in the English willow section in the catalogue, and noted down as just another grade in a particular range. The Kashmir bats had separate sections/models within the catalogue

The trade price list made a slight differentiation, probably just enough to cover them legally, but certainly only just enough to be easily overlooked by a retailer when buying. At trade shows the models weren’t even mentioned, reinforcing the idea that they could be overlooked. To be far to Kookaburra their junior ones were all coated in fake grain sheets initially, but did expose the wood later on.

I’ve not been directly in that part of the industry for a while now, and back then was the very beginnings of Serbian or European willow, so perhaps the brands just didn’t know how to categorise it. Benefit of the doubt given as they have been a lot clearer recently I believe.

But, unfortunately the sub continental manufacturers could easily do what I’ve suggested, and I’d say some of them probably already are.
I must stress that when it comes to manufacturers in India and Pakistan, the guys who are likely to try this sort of thing are in the minority. But ultimately if the difference between Serbian and English proves to be almost undetectable then some of them are going to chance their arm.
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i12breakfree

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2020, 06:52:51 PM »

I have seen couple of spartan brand bats made in india with serbian willow. Had narrow grains and once oiled they got darker than regular english willow (not sure if it was just the oil  :o )
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Chad

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2020, 02:50:06 AM »

Just picked out 3 bats which I believe are Serbian Willow. One thing in common - MASSIVE for their weight. The Malik has 2 grips, 52mm edges and 71mm spine, the Condor with no scuff has 41mm edges and 68mm spine, and the other has 43mm edges and a 65mm spine. Not insanely narrow either, all around the 105-107mm mark. Absolute cannons when tapping the ball up, but feel they'll definitely give the user a good time, but not a long time...




































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scholzee

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2020, 05:15:18 AM »

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post. But, I’ve been interested in buying a Serbian Willow cleft to shape for myself for awhile. Mainly just for personal use and to form my own opinion on as online you see many differing opinions. More so on companies using it without specifying.

If it’s not to much to ask, would anyone know where I could get a part made to have a crack at?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 08:27:34 AM by scholzee »
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Sivlar13

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2020, 06:04:46 AM »

Inject the 50mm into my veins 🥴🥴
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Kulli

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2020, 06:28:01 AM »

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post. But, I’ve been interested in buying a cleft to shape for myself for awhile. Mainly just for personal use and to form my own opinion on as online you see many differing opinions. More so on companies using it without specifying.

If it’s not to much to ask, would anyone know where I could get a part made to have a crack at?
H4L
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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2020, 06:53:49 AM »

H4L

Unless I’ve read it wrong, Was he not asking for a Serbian willow part made? Not sure Matt has access to Serbian willow, doubt he has the need for it lol
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scholzee

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2020, 08:29:51 AM »

Yes, a Serbian Willow cleft. Sorry I didn’t put it in my original post. After re-reading I left my post very vague. My apologies.
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jonny77

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2020, 08:36:17 AM »

Inject the 50mm into my veins 🥴🥴

Each to their own but I'd rather have a bat without that level of concaving, with smaller edges all day long. Plus the likelihood that it's not been baked to death either so will last longer than a few minutes 😆
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edge

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Re: Serbian Willow
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2020, 09:17:39 AM »

Here's my Serbians, first is my favourite bat which is 2lb10 and won't get even vaguely through a gauge, I pretty much sanded a cleft down:




and a more normal size one, 2lb11 short blade with more traditional edges and a convex back:




Both perform exceptionally well, both need constant repairing! The density is wildly different between the two, both are pretty dry. Would be interesting to know if the Serbs process the clefts differently - what I was told by the supplier I got these clefts off was that there seemed to be no particular correlation between moisture levels and cleft weights with the Serbian clefts they'd had, whereas with the English stuff they generally got lighter the drier they were.
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