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[FattusCattus]

If we take Ed Smith's horses for courses and form will be considered, Moeen has to come back in and - bearing in mind he is one of our best players of spin -

Is he? Didn't Nathan Lyon have him on toast for the entire Ashes - and India's seam attack is the threat, not their spinners.

Isn;t their a decent right-handed Yorskshireman out there/ 


#yorkshiremafia - "tonight you sleep with da (battered) fishes!!"

[brokenbat]

This is England's own doing. You can't leave out two world class batsmen (KP and Bell) and expect young kids to make up. Imagine those two in the lineup right now, under a strong captain.

[edge]

This is England's own doing. You can't leave out two world class batsmen (KP and Bell) and expect young kids to make up. Imagine those two in the lineup right now, under a strong captain.

I think given they are now 38 and 36 that time is definitely past! Bell's dropping was definitely warranted at the time too. Where England have failed is finding lasting replacements, particularly openers. That said, if things had gone differently James Taylor would probably be England captain by now, not selector.

[six and out]

So I haven't been able to watch much because I am away with no access to tv but I have seen the wickets on the BBC website and read about the test etc... and it sounds and looked very bad!

However what I will say is we are still ahead 2-1. And India were just as bad last test and are still very capable of going to the Rose bowl and being 150 all out.

We definitely have problems which I think stem from Root being captain but it is a brave man to take that away from him. Plus also who do you give it to, Butler? His place isn't definte. Stokes? That's a gamble considering his off field stuff.

Openers - Cook is undoubtedly on one of his downward slumps but look throughout his career and it is completely peaks and troughs, is he finished? I think he's got some very good deliveries and is definitely playing better than Jennings. Who has gone backwards again, when he 1st came back he was getting forwards with a positive step and now he seems to have gone back to just hanging on the back foot again.

Pope - saw an interesting tweet the other day asking if he was the next James Vince? He really needs to bat lower down if he's going to play those shots.

Rashid - not a stand alone test spinner simples. He doesn't have the control to keep pressure from one end etc...

It will be interesting to see what happens for the Rose bowl, I can see Mo coming in if YJB can't play. But apart from that I don't think they will majorly change. Maybe rest a seamer and Curran come back in.

[ppccopener]

So I haven't been able to watch much because I am away with no access to tv but I have seen the wickets on the BBC website and read about the test etc... and it sounds and looked very bad!

However what I will say is we are still ahead 2-1. And India were just as bad last test and are still very capable of going to the Rose bowl and being 150 all out.

We definitely have problems which I think stem from Root being captain but it is a brave man to take that away from him. Plus also who do you give it to, Butler? His place isn't definte. Stokes? That's a gamble considering his off field stuff.

Openers - Cook is undoubtedly on one of his downward slumps but look throughout his career and it is completely peaks and troughs, is he finished? I think he's got some very good deliveries and is definitely playing better than Jennings. Who has gone backwards again, when he 1st came back he was getting forwards with a positive step and now he seems to have gone back to just hanging on the back foot again.

Pope - saw an interesting tweet the other day asking if he was the next James Vince? He really needs to bat lower down if he's going to play those shots.

Rashid - not a stand alone test spinner simples. He doesn't have the control to keep pressure from one end etc...

It will be interesting to see what happens for the Rose bowl, I can see Mo coming in if YJB can't play. But apart from that I don't think they will majorly change. Maybe rest a seamer and Curran come back in.

just as a alternative to Root, no one says it's a job for five years or more sport dos not work like that

Jimmy Anderson. Went for the captaincy last time round but the English way of succession management won the day.

England also have a history of making their best player the Captain, still despite mistakes of the past, we do continue to do this.

if the England captaincy comes along you cannot turn it down, no one has really in the past, and you can see why

but Root being Captain is the wrong move for this team and Root himself.

I wonder if some experienced heads in the England set up can see this? or genuinely believe it's right for the team and him?

[Manormanic]

Is he? Didn't Nathan Lyon have him on toast for the entire Ashes - and India's seam attack is the threat, not their spinners.

Isn;t their a decent right-handed Yorskshireman out there/ 

What, apart from Root and Bairstow? Honest answer is, not right now - Brook in eighteen months time, for sure, but not yet. I scratched around for righties, but the candidates are old (Bell), injured (Livingstone) or in the tried and failed pot (Robson, Vince, Westley) Joe Clarke is a good player, but it's too soon...after that, it's at the stage where Beefy was calling for Phil Salt...

Ali. Look at his record in India and the Emirates last time. Given we probably want six options with the ball in Sri Lanka...

[shadowlight]

Right, I know I'm going to get shouted down, but i don;t care. I wonder if we are getting into a similar situation that required a Brearley recall all those years ago?

Based on some of the decision that Root has made and the impact of captaincy has on his batting that might not be a bad option.  Personally, I rather have him scoring runs for the team and not worry about people management side of the house.  England need to balance their left/right combination in the team.  If the last two tests are going to be on slow/low wickets and Ashwin is fit the number of left hand batsmen could turn into liability, especially if Baristow is not playing due to injury.

If England selector make that decision I would be 

My team for the 4th test:

Option 1:
Burns
Mitchell/Robson
Cook (if he is taking paternity leave, pick who is not picked from Mitchell/Robson.  Cook needs to be told that he needs to mentor/help the new openers settle down)
Root (will have to turn his arm over for couple of overs of spin)
Morgan (c) - Left field selection similar to Brearley
Pope
Buttler (wk, while Baristow is out with injury)
Stokes
Woakes
Curran/Broad (personally Broad needs to be dropped but I am completely biased against him due to his behavior on the field)
Anderson

Option 2
Burns
Mitchell/Robson
Cook
Root
Clarke/Livingston
Pope (England need to back the young guys in the team)
Stokes
Buttler (c, wk)
Woakes
Curran/Broad
Anderson

[brokenbat]

I think given they are now 38 and 36 that time is definitely past! Bell's dropping was definitely warranted at the time too. Where England have failed is finding lasting replacements, particularly openers. That said, if things had gone differently James Taylor would probably be England captain by now, not selector.

who cares about age? as long as they are good enough, they should be playing. clearly, their replacements in the squad are far, far less capable.

[six and out]

I have seen a few sides on here where people are completely forgetting we just got flogged all over the place and if you want to go into a test match with Stokes as your 4th seamer in a 4 man attack with no spinner, you are asking for trouble or praying for conditions like Lords

[shadowlight]

I have seen a few sides on here where people are completely forgetting we just got flogged all over the place and if you want to go into a test match with Stokes as your 4th seamer in a 4 man attack with no spinner, you are asking for trouble or praying for conditions like Lords

Does England have any spinner that will hold up one end and not leak runs?  The only spinners that I can think of are Rashid, Moeen Ali, Leach and Bess.  I do not believe Rashid, Moeen or Bess are going to do a holding job, which basically leaves you with Leach unless I missed someone.  Also, Root has to trust the spinner and he really has not handled Rashid so well so far, say compared to Morgan has done in ODI.

[edge]

What, apart from Root and Bairstow? Honest answer is, not right now - Brook in eighteen months time, for sure, but not yet. I scratched around for righties, but the candidates are old (Bell), injured (Livingstone) or in the tried and failed pot (Robson, Vince, Westley) Joe Clarke is a good player, but it's too soon...after that, it's at the stage where Beefy was calling for Phil Salt...

Ali. Look at his record in India and the Emirates last time. Given we probably want six options with the ball in Sri Lanka...

The leading right handed candidate for the top 3 would probably be Alex Davies? Not sure how strong a first class season he's having though if I'm honest?

Jack Leach took a strong looking 8fer today...

[Manormanic]

The leading right handed candidate for the top 3 would probably be Alex Davies? Not sure how strong a first class season he's having though if I'm honest?

Jack Leach took a strong looking 8fer today...

I think Davies, in common with most of the Lancashire team, has been hit and miss (though it does throw up the interesting question of how many wicketkeepers England could field at once!).

On the Brearley point, I think the problem is that that savant leader of men does not really seem to exist in county cricket, where the job now seems to be passed around like a hot potato.  Since the turn of the Century, who would our options have been?  Gale, perhaps, though his form as coach has since suggested he might not have been the genius we thought at the time. 

[Big Mac]

Don't forget:

Buttler: nice lad, but what is his role? We already have a surfeit of counter-attacking lower middle order batsmen
Woakes: pace drops dramatically from one spell to the next, ineffective anywhere but in English conditions.
Stokes: only seems capable/interested in bowling endless bouncers, not a top 6 test batsman, and a man of his temper and violent tendencies must be a very negative and disruptive presence in the dressing room. No longer wants to field at slip.

England lineup:

1: vacant
2: vacant
3: vacant
4: vacant
5: Root
6: Bairstow (currently injured)
7: vacant
8: vacant
9: vacant
10: vacant
11: Anderson (close to retirement)

Re: Stokes not wanting to field at slip.

I am sure I saw/read somewhere that his stats at holding on to slip catches aren't particularly great so that makes sense. I'll try and find it if I can. We have been repeatedly hit over the head in the last few days with the fact that Cook has the worst slip record in recent times but Stokes wasn't much better iirc

[ppccopener]

The guardian, which seems to get just about everything right, is saying Vince is in for cover of bairstow for the rose bowl test.

There's a couple of things despite the guy frustrating a lot of fans, some on here myself included.

He can bat 3 which at least solves one problem if root does prefer 4
He's very much in form this year
It's his home ground
He's got a decent amount of experience.

I think myself we do need someone with experience batting top 5, it's not really fair to bat Pope 4 in my book as he is a number 6 for Surrey.

The bloke can clearly play and has got starts, as opposed to getting no runs. 

[Big Mac]

There we go:



Also, bonus stat for Seniorplayer:

http://cricviz.com/2018/08/cricviz-analysis-england-v-india-second-test-day-three/

Chris Woakes has never dropped a catch for England; Ben Stokes has a catch success rate of 77%.