England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
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alba caerulea

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1305 on: February 03, 2020, 08:42:02 AM »
Funny how the forum mods are happy to censor people calling out sexism but not doing anything about these moronic views.

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alexhilly1492

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1306 on: February 03, 2020, 08:57:18 AM »
Quote from: alba caerulea on February 03, 2020, 08:42:02 AM
Funny how the forum mods are happy to censor people calling out sexism but not doing anything about these moronic views.

whether there moronic or not, people have views and a right to speak them.

that the joy of this forum not everyone agrees and we can have nice healthy debates, it is a shame that some people are adamant that they're correct and wont accept anyone else views. you cant censor that
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Buzz

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1307 on: February 03, 2020, 09:09:40 AM »
Sorry I missed the casual racism as I assumed Moeen was English.
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Jimbo

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1308 on: February 03, 2020, 09:58:44 AM »
Quote from: alexhilly1492 on February 03, 2020, 08:57:18 AM
whether there moronic or not, people have views and a right to speak them.

that the joy of this forum not everyone agrees and we can have nice healthy debates, it is a shame that some people are adamant that they're correct and wont accept anyone else views. you cant censor that

I think it would be entirely fair to censor racist views but the comment being referred to was, IMO, poorly worded rather than deliberately bigoted.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1309 on: February 03, 2020, 10:18:07 AM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 03, 2020, 09:58:44 AM
I think it would be entirely fair to censor racist views but the comment being referred to was, IMO, poorly worded rather than deliberately bigoted.

as would i, and i agree badly worded.

Any way back to the topic in hand, Moeen ideally will play in Sri Lanka however i dont think he will tour.

best thing for him imo is go back to Worcester and take bucket loads of wickets
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Buzz

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1310 on: February 03, 2020, 10:50:20 AM »
Moeen will tour Sri Lanka, if selected and we know Joe Root wants him on the tour.

What I would say is he should start third in line (with Dom Bess as first in line)
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Jimbo

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1311 on: February 03, 2020, 11:41:39 AM »
Given Bess' form, I'd have to agree he's the man in possession as it stands. Hopefully Leach can get back to fitness as well, was outstanding in SL last time.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1312 on: February 03, 2020, 12:13:48 PM »
My order of preference would be Bess, Moeen, then Leach.

Bess can contain and take wickets, Moeen can take lots of wickets, and when bowling well can contain. Leach, well he doesn’t take many wickets and doesn’t seem able to contain. He certainly can’t be selected because he batted ok once or twice in his career.

The chap I go and see for batting coaching has spent some time with Moeen, and he says his issues with both bat and ball aren’t technical. It’s all in the head. He needs to feel some love and feel that he’s trusted by the team. Sadly, neither Root or Sir Chef provided this on a regular basis.

When Moeen is performing, he would be 3rd name on the team sheet for me for test matches (behind the skipper and Sir Ben Stokes).
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ppccopener

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1313 on: February 03, 2020, 12:15:39 PM »
disagree actually, Moeen is a very interesting player, unusually honest, clearly hurt but the loss of his test contract(you could argue this either way), and has not done much to slot straight back in to the team since losing his place, by his own admission in a rut of poor form and loss of confidence.

Bess has come in and done well, as has Leach.Root can bowl a bit of spin as can Denly

I think what England want is him straight back in, will they take him on tour as the third spinner? is there any guilt they handled they situation badly...if that's what they did?

im going to throw this out there just for discussion

I was off work with an operation for three months, my Company stopped paying me.I have no complaint but would you expect your Company to pay you?

what im saying is should England of covered Moeens contract when he was not playing?, he made himself available but he has said himself it was burn out....

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Jimbo

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1314 on: February 03, 2020, 12:58:28 PM »
Managing players' mental health should be treated exactly the same as managing a physical injury. If Moeen broke his hand nobody would question him taking time out to recover. A mental health issue shouldn't be treated any differently, especially not in cricket where mentality is a huge part of success.
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edge

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1315 on: February 03, 2020, 01:36:26 PM »
Quote from: SouthpawMark on February 03, 2020, 12:13:48 PM
My order of preference would be Bess, Moeen, then Leach.

Bess can contain and take wickets, Moeen can take lots of wickets, and when bowling well can contain. Leach, well he doesn’t take many wickets and doesn’t seem able to contain. He certainly can’t be selected because he batted ok once or twice in his career.
Leach was a bit off form in his most recent couple of test matches but you obviously haven't been watching him bowl - Moeen isn't fit to do Leach's boots up as a spinner. Bess made the breakthrough of running through a side that Leach hasn't quite managed yet, but Leach is obviously capable of that in time, he's shown a lot for Somerset. Let's play look at the stats...

Leach  - avg 29.02 econ 2.85 sr 60.9
Moeen - avg 36.59 econ 3.62 sr 60.6
And for context:
Nathan Lyon - avg 31.58 econ 3.0 sr 62.9
Rangana Herath - avg 28.07 econ 2.84 sr 60
Ravi Jadeja - avg 24.64 econ 2.43 sr 60.7

Moeen's figures are superb for an all-rounder but way below par for a specialist - he'll obviously play in subcontinental conditions as he's very capable of batting in the top 6 there, but as sole spinner Leach and Bess are (unsurprisingly) better options. Wouldn't be surprised if all three played in SL on a turner.
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ppccopener

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1316 on: February 03, 2020, 01:39:04 PM »
that's what I was intimating at. Im not sure whether Mo should be in as first choice with the emergence of Bess and Leach, but Moeens role in the team has always been a grey shade, he has scored  a lot of valuable runs for us from number 8

not convinced myself at all England removing his test contract was the right thing to do, not everyone is the same, some players need managing differently to others..

a 'retainer' perhaps in hindsight may of been an idea while he was unavaiable
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1317 on: February 03, 2020, 02:02:49 PM »
Quote from: edge on February 03, 2020, 01:36:26 PM
Leach was a bit off form in his most recent couple of test matches but you obviously haven't been watching him bowl - Moeen isn't fit to do Leach's boots up as a spinner. Bess made the breakthrough of running through a side that Leach hasn't quite managed yet, but Leach is obviously capable of that in time, he's shown a lot for Somerset. Let's play look at the stats...

Leach  - avg 29.02 econ 2.85 sr 60.9
Moeen - avg 36.59 econ 3.62 sr 60.6
And for context:
Nathan Lyon - avg 31.58 econ 3.0 sr 62.9
Rangana Herath - avg 28.07 econ 2.84 sr 60
Ravi Jadeja - avg 24.64 econ 2.43 sr 60.7

Moeen's figures are superb for an all-rounder but way below par for a specialist - he'll obviously play in subcontinental conditions as he's very capable of batting in the top 6 there, but as sole spinner Leach and Bess are (unsurprisingly) better options. Wouldn't be surprised if all three played in SL on a turner.

Moeen has been off form for far longer, and his bowling average has likely suffered as a result.
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edge

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1318 on: February 03, 2020, 02:05:30 PM »
Quote from: SouthpawMark on February 03, 2020, 02:02:49 PM
Moeen has been off form for far longer, and his bowling average has likely suffered as a result.
Moeen's test bowling average wasn't any good in the first place. In first class it's nearly 38!
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cricketbadger

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #1319 on: February 03, 2020, 02:36:40 PM »
With Ali selected along with Leach and Bess, youd likely be looking at 5 soon options with the ball, which even in SL is overkill. Denly and Root can comfortably fill the void of Ali not being picked, then pick a specialist batsmen better than Ali, which shouldnt be too hard

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