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[SLA]

This is literally just semantics. You're claiming he doesn't bowl spin well and therefore isn't a spinner. Tell that to Michael yardy or Joe root. You'd think as a specialist spin bowling coach you'd recognise the value in someone bowling darts wicket to wicket with the threat of one turning as a variation especially in t20 cricket on a flat one.

Just so I'm clear, are you claiming that Joe Root and Michael Yardy don't spin the ball?

[AJ2014]

In my experience, almost anyone can be an offspin bowler, but it's very hard to be a good offspin bowler.

Here's what I think makes a good off spinner hard to face
1. accuracy
2. Subtle changes of pace
3. Changing position on the crease
4. Drift
5. Bowling to a plan

Also, don't be afraid to get hit for six

Yep, totally agree

[SLA]

short run up and a leggy action, to me thats leg spinner whether it turns or not....

Of course, its perfectly possible to have a short run up and then bowl seam up with a "leggy action".

[Jimbo]

@WalkingWicket37 Appreciate the offer mate, will bear it in mind once nets get underway!

@SD I take your point but otherwise it'll be getting on for the start of the season before I get much chance to work on it. Will see if I can nab myself an empty lane for 20 minutes or so at each net though.

[LEACHY48]

Just so I'm clear, are you claiming that Joe Root and Michael Yardy don't spin the ball?

Correct, root undercuts the ball and doesn't get much if any sideways movement, yardy was the same

[SLA]

Correct, root undercuts the ball and doesn't get much if any sideways movement, yardy was the same

I'm terribly sorry but I think you're mistaken. To start with, you're confusing spin with turn. Just because a ball doesn't turn off the pitch, does not mean that you haven't spun it hard.

I suggest you watch some footage where the rev-counter was being used by Sky. Both Yardy and Root bowl with good revs and spin the ball harder than most amateur spinners. Root gets as many revs on the ball as any offspinner I've watched since Murali.

[alexhilly1492]

I'm terribly sorry but I think you're mistaken. To start with, you're confusing spin with turn. Just because a ball doesn't turn off the pitch, does not mean that you haven't spun it hard.

I suggest you watch some footage where the rev-counter was being used by Sky. Both Yardy and Root bowl with good revs and spin the ball harder than most amateur spinners. Root gets as many revs on the ball as any offspinner I've watched since Murali.

Hang on how are spin and turn not related?

to get turn you have to impart spin on the ball....

[Buzz]

Hang on how are spin and turn not related?

to get turn you have to impart spin on the ball....

You can give the ball a massive rip and the ball doesn't turn for a number of reasons.

[SLA]

Hang on how are spin and turn not related?

to get turn you have to impart spin on the ball....

They're related, but they're not the same thing. Spin is what you do to the ball - its the number and direction of the revs. Spin can have 4 different effects: turn, bounce, drift and dip. I'd argue that they're each equally important.

You can't have turn without spin (unless the ball hits a stone), but you can have spin without turn. For example, a topspinner has a lot of spin, but it doesn't turn.

[WalkingWicket37]

@SLA I've just tried to send you a (rather long and thought out) PM but I got an "Unable to load page" after pressing send. Can you confirm if you received it or not please...

[SLA]

@SLA I've just tried to send you a (rather long and thought out) PM but I got an "Unable to load page" after pressing send. Can you confirm if you received it or not please...

No! Sorry. Did you happen to save it anywhere before you lost it?

Maybe it will come through in a minute.

[WalkingWicket37]

I worried you'd say that!
No copy is in my sent box, guess I'll type it all out again...

[AJ2014]

I only try to really turn when I am sure that the wicket turning a lot.
Mostly I don't try to turn much, as long it's turns enough to put the batter in doubt, how much it's gonna turn, from there onwards I try variations of slower, faster and strait deliveries, in between a delivery which leaves the batter which is a bit faster one, fast yorkers and slow yorkers.
Last season I ended up bowling overs if the innings, what means average was 4 an hour, but still acceptable in the situations of the match, team mates appreciated, which feels good 🙂

[sfa82]

I have read this thread with interest having made the change from medium pace to becoming a off-spinner about 6 years ago. A lot of the inputs are very true and I found I experienced the same things mentioned here. An important aspect is of course the level at which you play. At lower levels, bowlers dish up bad balls regularly and the more accurate consistent bowlers do very well. Batsmen also manage to get themselves out rather being out-thought by bowlers. My biggest struggle was limiting the bad balls initially. It always appears easier to be more accurate bowling slower, but it definitely takes a lot of practice and figuring out how to go about the task. Another important aspect is figuring out the best pace to bowl at on a particular surface or to a particular batsmen.

All that being said, I'm still learning and I wouldn't be able to pull it off at a higher level.

Out of interests, in the leagues you guys play, are the spinners massive turners of the ball?

[AJ2014]

I practice a lot on bowling fuller length and yorkers. What you don't normally see, this works for me as I don't like to let the batters free their arms. It didn't always go right but this is the I do it.
One think to remember is any kind of bowling takes hours of  preparation.
Compared to me other off spinner does the opposite, a lot of flight, extra bounce and turn get him wickets, he's a tall guy.
So everyone does it own, which ever works 🙂