Topic: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice? (Read 15164 times)

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #60 on:** January 16, 2020, 04:41:55 AM »

Quote from: AJ2014 on January 16, 2020, 02:54:17 AM

it suppose to be, at any level

No, no, no! Coaching books have traditionally said that ball should spin on the axis of seam.

I know Jack Leach takes pride in being able to bowl whole spells without landing the ball on the shiny side. This wouldn't be possible if he was scrambling the seam.

brokenbat · « **Reply #61 on:** January 16, 2020, 04:43:16 AM »

Quote from: Tom_90 on January 15, 2020, 06:35:01 PM

@SLA

I have a question if you don't mind.

If i bowl spin with a cross or scrambled seam, would that create more turbulence and therefore more drift? I find it easier to generate more revs by using the seam as a lever with my index finger if that makes sense?

According to murali (there is a clip of him coaching Lyon), scramble Seam makes it easier to bring dip, but it limits the drift. It�s a nice variation to have.. each bowler has his own style - so just experiment and see what works best for you. In my case, a scramble seam gives me more margin of error (I get bite off the surface even when I start undercutting the ball, instead of the correct up-and-over action). Some days I need that extra margin of error and I use that grip throughout the game - other days the swann/Lyon grip works better.

AJ2014 · « **Reply #62 on:** January 16, 2020, 05:26:41 AM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on January 16, 2020, 04:41:55 AM

No, no, no! Coaching books have traditionally said that ball should spin on the axis of seam.
I know Jack Leach takes pride in being able to bowl whole spells without landing the ball on the shiny side. This wouldn't be possible if he was scrambling the seam.

okay

well said!
am i right in saying that scrambled deliveries are meant to go at the same pace of stock deliveries but they are suppose to stay straight? try fooling batman?

SLA · « **Reply #63 on:** January 16, 2020, 09:13:16 AM »

Quote from: Tom_90 on January 15, 2020, 06:35:01 PM

@SLA

I have a question if you don't mind.

If i bowl spin with a cross or scrambled seam, would that create more turbulence and therefore more drift? I find it easier to generate more revs by using the seam as a lever with my index finger if that makes sense?

I'm not aware of any scientific reason why it would make any noticeable difference to the strength or direction of either the magnus force or the reaction force off the ground.

However, as others have said, as a batsman I find it much harder to pick variations when the bowler is bowling with a scrambled seam.

I also bowl like that when the ball gets wet and the seam swells and it becomes impossible to grip in the orthodox fashion.

WalkingWicket37 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 16, 2020, 09:19:43 AM »

I like to use the scrambled seam delivery when bowling at the death.

There's no scientific proof to any of this, but my theory is it could grip and behave normally or the seam could hit the pitch at a strange angle and do funny things.

Like I say there's no proof to this but it is something I've had success doing for about 6 years, so I'll stick with it

Psi · « **Reply #65 on:** January 16, 2020, 10:21:11 AM »

One question: why don't people switch to leg spin? I don't bowl, but when I do try and spin it, a leg action seems just as natural as an off spin action. Or am I missing something about how specialist leg spin is?

SLA · « **Reply #66 on:** January 16, 2020, 10:42:20 AM »

Quote from: Psi on January 16, 2020, 10:21:11 AM

One question: why don't people switch to leg spin? I don't bowl, but when I do try and spin it, a leg action seems just as natural as an off spin action. Or am I missing something about how specialist leg spin is?

Some people do. A lad at our club switched from rubbish medium pace to rubbish leq spin. Its at least a bit more entertaining now.

I think the reason most people don't is because the learning curve is more dispiriting. I think a bad leg spinner is no more likely to get tonked than a bad offspinner, but its bad in a more embarrassing way. More wides, more long-hops. It looks worse in nets.

Jimbo · « **Reply #67 on:** January 16, 2020, 01:23:08 PM »

Fewer legspinners around to give advice too. My club has optimistically 3, whereas every batsman who has to turn his arm over in nets bowls offies.

Tom_90 · « **Reply #68 on:** January 16, 2020, 04:26:18 PM »

Quote from: SLA on January 16, 2020, 09:13:16 AM

I'm not aware of any scientific reason why it would make any noticeable difference to the strength or direction of either the magnus force or the reaction force off the ground.

However, as others have said, as a batsman I find it much harder to pick variations when the bowler is bowling with a scrambled seam.

I also bowl like that when the ball gets wet and the seam swells and it becomes impossible to grip in the orthodox fashion.

Thanks, and thanks to everyone for their contributions!

I tend to bowl mainly conventionally, but sometimes bowl scrambled seam if the ball feels uncomfortable to grip for whatever reason.

I watched a lot of baseball last year, and they use the seams in many different ways to generate movement on their pitches. really fascinating stuff. I wondered if there was any evidence for cricket ball movement being affected by how the seam was rotating.

I guess the main difference with baseball is the design of the ball is obviously different and they throw the ball harder than we cricketers bowl it. A curveball for example is usually the slowest pitch thrown at 70-odd MPH.

Always fun having a play with different deliveries in the nets!

SLA · « **Reply #69 on:** January 16, 2020, 04:47:12 PM »

Quote from: Tom_90 on January 16, 2020, 04:26:18 PM

Thanks, and thanks to everyone for their contributions!

I tend to bowl mainly conventionally, but sometimes bowl scrambled seam if the ball feels uncomfortable to grip for whatever reason.

I watched a lot of baseball last year, and they use the seams in many different ways to generate movement on their pitches. really fascinating stuff. I wondered if there was any evidence for cricket ball movement being affected by how the seam was rotating.

I guess the main difference with baseball is the design of the ball is obviously different and they throw the ball harder than we cricketers bowl it. A curveball for example is usually the slowest pitch thrown at 70-odd MPH.

Always fun having a play with different deliveries in the nets!

The main distinction in baseball between similar pitches that vary seam orientation are the 4-seam and 2-seam fastball.

The 4 seam fastball is held across the seams and thrown with backspin. This is supposedly the hardest, straightest pitch the pitcher throws.

The 2 seam fastball is thrown in a similar manner but with the long seams oriented towards the batter. This is supposed to induce sideways movement (perhaps like a touch of swing).

In reality, the way pitchers get their 2-seamers to move is to combine this grip with increased pressure on one finger to introduce a small amount of sidespin onto the ball. Press harder with the index finger and you have a cutter, press harder with the middle finger and you have a sinker.

These used to be my two favourite pitches when I was a pitcher in the British leagues.

Jimbo · « **Reply #70 on:** February 01, 2020, 02:11:08 PM »

First attempt at it today, not absolutely awful but could use a few tips! Big issue was the high full tosses, almost felt like the ball was slipping out the top of my hand. Any advice on how to cut down on that?

AJ2014 · « **Reply #71 on:** February 01, 2020, 02:39:27 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 01, 2020, 02:11:08 PM

First attempt at it today, not absolutely awful but could use a few tips! Big issue was the high full tosses, almost felt like the ball was slipping out the top of my hand. Any advice on how to cut down on that?

Oh man, this game is so funny 😀
Last week I bowled after 6 months break
Thought action was right, bowled head high full toss! 😀 Next ball, tried to bowl slower, another high full toss! I bowled 6 full tosses! Never ever happened that before, trust me 😀 7th delivery was precise, so that batsman called for, 'well bowled!'
From there onwards not even 1 off was off target 🙂
I think my radar was set high and was bowling faster than I thought!
I only have softer grip when I bowl slower flighted deliveries which is not often. I do that when try to deceive batter on the flight or if the wicket is turning a lot.
Otherwise bowling only flighted isn't effective for me, I think.
So I would suggest that you should hold the ball tighter and try to ball on the off stump or just outside the off, what you think about it? 🙂

AJ2014 · « **Reply #72 on:** February 01, 2020, 02:47:15 PM »

I thought at the time and afterwards bit couldn't really find exact reason for those 6 full tosses. Then I guess that I was trying too hard to bowl on the spot.
You see it's a very learning game if we try to relax and have fun 😀

Jimbo · « **Reply #73 on:** February 01, 2020, 02:48:22 PM »

I'll give a slightly tighter grip a go next week, cheers!

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #74 on:** February 01, 2020, 04:35:42 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on January 16, 2020, 01:23:08 PM

Fewer legspinners around to give advice too. My club has optimistically 3, whereas every batsman who has to turn his arm over in nets bowls offies.

Not to mention every seamer who's had enough of running in for today.

Author Topic: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice? (Read 15164 times)

Bats_Entertainment

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

brokenbat

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

AJ2014

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

SLA

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

WalkingWicket37

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Psi

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

SLA

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Jimbo

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Tom_90

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

SLA

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Jimbo

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

AJ2014

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

AJ2014

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Jimbo

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?

Bats_Entertainment

Re: Switching from medium pace to offspin - any advice?