Topic: England�s international summer (Read 123636 times)

ppccopener · « **Reply #990 on:** August 10, 2020, 08:06:25 AM »

Age catches up with everyone he has been amazing to comeback after injury.
Maybe with winter tours planned for the sub continent the 2021 home series looks far away.

It will be a sad day when he does retire that�s for sure

Jimbo · « **Reply #991 on:** August 10, 2020, 08:21:35 AM »

If Anderson does retire it'll be a big loss in terms of experience but also a big opportunity for the likes of Robinson. Holder and Abbas have shown how valuable line and length bowling can be, hope that doesn't get forgotten in the rush to fill the side with 90mph pace merchants.

mo_town · « **Reply #992 on:** August 10, 2020, 08:52:47 AM »

Cant imagine what Ben Foakes must be going through. I think most of the nation was hoping for Buttler to fail so that he is replaced by Foakes but with that innings Buttler has ensured that he will hold onto the spot for now. Although, surely a wonderful batting performance cannot substitute for the main role, wicketkeeping. If Buttler had caught/stumped Shan in the first innings, things would be a lot different.

Jimbo · « **Reply #993 on:** August 10, 2020, 09:13:52 AM »

I'm not convinced that Foakes wouldn't also score runs batting at 7. Stokes being out complicates things as Buttler has done well at 6 and Stokes' replacement will likely be a pure batsman. Think it's likely that Buttler stays, England play 5 bowlers with Woakes at 7 and Crawley back at 3.

rickjames · « **Reply #994 on:** August 10, 2020, 11:58:36 AM »

Another excuse for the selectors not playing Foakes is that he's not played any FC cricket in 11 months...

jamesisapayne · « **Reply #995 on:** August 10, 2020, 02:24:28 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on August 10, 2020, 08:52:47 AM

I think most of the nation was hoping for Buttler to fail so that he is replaced by Foakes but with that innings Buttler has ensured that he will hold onto the spot for now. Although, surely a wonderful batting performance cannot substitute for the main role, wicketkeeping. If Buttler had caught/stumped Shan in the first innings, things would be a lot different.

What sort of person hopes that someone fails like that. I know I certainly wouldn't stoop low enough to hope that someone has a crap enough game so I can get my way and say ha, I told you so!

All these remarks being thrown around about Jos are ridiculous. He's had a decent run of games and not been at his best granted, and he'll be the first person to admit that. Is he a better wicketkeeper than Ben Foakes, almost certainly not. But he's obviously got a huge ticker, is a class batsman who knows how to time a chase and see a game off.

Ben Stokes dropped a couple of fairly straightforward catches in the slips and scored bugger all with the bat - don't see anyone saying that could have cost England the same way they're hammering Jos.

All these people thinking that Ben Foakes is THE golden ticket to solve all of England's keeping/middle order batting issues are having a laugh. What if he does get a run in the side and performs poorly, then what.

To go out and play that innings knowing full well your dad has some health issues and to fully front up with honesty to the media saying I haven't been good enough and know I need to get better to stay in the side. I take my hat off to the guy, rather than hoping he'll fail.

mo_town · « **Reply #996 on:** August 10, 2020, 02:51:13 PM »

Quote from: jamesisapayne on August 10, 2020, 02:24:28 PM

What sort of person hopes that someone fails like that. I know I certainly wouldn't stoop low enough to hope that someone has a crap enough game so I can get my way and say ha, I told you so!

All these remarks being thrown around about Jos are ridiculous. He's had a decent run of games and not been at his best granted, and he'll be the first person to admit that. Is he a better wicketkeeper than Ben Foakes, almost certainly not. But he's obviously got a huge ticker, is a class batsman who knows how to time a chase and see a game off.

Ben Stokes dropped a couple of fairly straightforward catches in the slips and scored bugger all with the bat - don't see anyone saying that could have cost England the same way they're hammering Jos.

All these people thinking that Ben Foakes is THE golden ticket to solve all of England's keeping/middle order batting issues are having a laugh. What if he does get a run in the side and performs poorly, then what.

To go out and play that innings knowing full well your dad has some health issues and to fully front up with honesty to the media saying I haven't been good enough and know I need to get better to stay in the side. I take my hat off to the guy, rather than hoping he'll fail.

Credit to him for having played the way he did. But the fact remains that he is not the best wicketkeeper. He has been average behind the stumps and that will hurt England bad in the future. It almost did against Pak.

Jimbo · « **Reply #997 on:** August 10, 2020, 03:22:28 PM »

I don't think it's anything personal or that anyone has some vendetta against Buttler. By all accounts he's a lovely bloke.

That said, that innings will likely be used to justify keeping him in the side and denying Foakes a chance, so I can understand why people aren't thrilled about it.

Buttler's keeping is a liability and I don't think he is one of the best 6 red ball batsmen available to England so IMO he's a luxury player that this England team can't really afford.

Stokes being out complicates selection but long term I would much rather see the likes of Lawrence and Foakes in the England test side with Buttler replacing Morgan as white ball skipper.

SD · « **Reply #998 on:** August 10, 2020, 03:33:41 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on August 10, 2020, 08:52:47 AM

Cant imagine what Ben Foakes must be going through. I think most of the nation was hoping for Buttler to fail so that he is replaced by Foakes but with that innings Buttler has ensured that he will hold onto the spot for now. Although, surely a wonderful batting performance cannot substitute for the main role, wicketkeeping. If Buttler had caught/stumped Shan in the first innings, things would be a lot different.

I would be amazed if even a small number of English cricket supporters would have been hoping that Butler failed and England lost just so that another wicket keeper might play in the following game. Very sad for that small number if an existing run chase was ruined by a personal vendetta.

Outside of a small hard-core of enthusiasts, I am not sure that the average English cricket fan has particularly strong views on selection. County cricket after all is a minority pass time. I suspect the majority watching on Saturday would have trouble naming the current county champions let alone give an informed opinion on the wicket keeping options around the county.

ppccopener · « **Reply #999 on:** August 10, 2020, 04:35:43 PM »

Butler has been popular with just about every England fan I've met and spoken to and remains so after the last test. A great innings with Woakes but he's honest enough to say he kept badly-perhaps that why he's so popular there is no media speak quotes.

I'm def of the opinion Foakes should play but I'd be very surprised if there are seriously any supporters wanting Jos to fail, it just doesn't work that way if you're a true fan.

England have played batsmen-keepers now for a very long time from Stewart to Prior to Bairstow and Butler. Even way before that we picked a guy called Jack Richards(I think) for an Ashes tour because he was a decent bat against pace-worked out ok if I remember correctly.

With Stokes out its highly unlikely Foakes will be recalled- we are due in the subcontinent in the winter if that goes ahead Foakes may get picked then, it's there the keeper will be standing up a lot.

I thought the errors in keeping would cost us the last match,they didn't and we managed to get over the line thanks to two great knocks.
In some ways we got away with it, maybe Pakistan took their foot off when they should of pressed it down-perhaps an inexperienced captain did not know how to change the game....or it was just one of those freak innings.

Whatever way, Butler is a hugely popular player and this 'most of the nation' wanting him to fail does not represent most of us fans. I'd be amazed if it did.Truly amazed.

mo_town · « **Reply #1000 on:** August 10, 2020, 04:48:55 PM »

How else will Foakes get a chance? I really like Butler as a player too. Seems like a genuinely nice guy. Accepting that he wasnt good enough with the gloves is great but what good does it do? His keeping form has been bad and his batting form has been scratchy and he will continue to block a better keeper based on one good inning.

ppccopener · « **Reply #1001 on:** August 10, 2020, 05:05:17 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on August 10, 2020, 04:48:55 PM

How else will Foakes get a chance? I really like Butler as a player too. Seems like a genuinely nice guy. Accepting that he wasnt good enough with the gloves is great but what good does it do? His keeping form has been bad and his batting form has been scratchy and he will continue to block a better keeper based on one good inning.

Foakes last played away to WI after a very good tour of SL with the gloves and the bat.

I would have a guess his best chance if here are no injuries is a winter tour if we go away to the sub continent.

Butler actually played pretty well thru 2018 if you look at the matches, was a bit scratchy with the bat last year and done ok to well this summer.

My own opinion is he plays because in England we tend to create more chances so a drop or a missed stumping may not cost as much as dropping Kholi in Bombay on 50 no...

So I think England trade that against his potential with the bat. He batted superbly in the last test there's no doubt about that.

I've got nothing to base my view on why he plays other than gut feeling. In other words England look at the keeping side in this Country as secondary.

It makes a closer argument I agree with Foakes as his test record batting and FC are very good.

Jimbo · « **Reply #1002 on:** August 10, 2020, 05:13:53 PM »

Buttler is another one who seems to get a lot of leeway because of what he might be able to do. If he's going to be selected based on his batting ability then surely he should have more than one century in nearly 50 tests? The fact he's got 0 test stumpings is a pretty good indicator of his standards as a test wicketkeeper.

billyb · « **Reply #1003 on:** August 10, 2020, 09:25:52 PM »

I just think it is a shame that you can't get Bairstow, Foakes and Buttler in the team at the same time. In theory, they would be great, but in reality is doesn't work.
Buttler isn't strong enough as a batsman on his own but is probably the most naturally talented sportsman in the squad, Bairstow should be England's 3 or 5 but has killed his technique despite being England's best test batsman in 2016ish.
Foakes is the better gloveman but he had a bad year with the bat in County Cricket.

I'm a huge fan of Foakes and I want him to play for England again. I just wish Bairstow and Buttler were good enough to play as batsmen, because if those two stepped up the plate as they can (and should, really), England would be a far stronger batting side. Bairstow's loss as a batsman in particular is a real loss for the test side, but his technique just isn't working!

Does the rule 'even a faulty clock is right twice a day' strike true with Buttler, perhaps? I'm not sure.

The class of that 2016 South Africa tour held so much promise. Bairstow, Ballance, Taylor...

Manormanic · « **Reply #1004 on:** August 11, 2020, 03:36:00 PM »

Is anyone missing the other possible solution here? Bat Bracey at three with the gloves and keep Wonderboy at six but without them?

Just throwing it out there.

Author Topic: England�s international summer (Read 123636 times)

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