England v Sri lanka
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DiscoStu

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #165 on: January 15, 2021, 11:07:12 AM »

I've definitely given worse decisions.  :D

Multiple times. In the same match. Including a run out where both the fielding team and our batsman decided it was so far not out that maybe I should be replaced.

As for the Root incident, I was watching with the sound off and thought he was out no question.

Probably time for me to either do the umpiring course or stick to doing the scorebook when we're batting.
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csnew

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #166 on: January 15, 2021, 01:03:37 PM »

Root edged the ball into the ground but on the way up it hit his glove, and he was then caught. This is not out in the rule books, and so it was judged to be not out. But weirdly, the vastly experienced Mickey Arthur seemed to disagree and completely lost it.  :o

Not for the first time Mickey Arthur kicking off - he’s done it with every side he’s coached
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Manormanic

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2021, 01:30:20 PM »

Really positive few sessions with the bat for England - if not for Rory Burns - with Root looking imperious, Bairstow excellent last night and Lawrence calm and assured today.  Accepted, there was some rubbish bowled at points, but it was refreshing to see that the "bat time" message was melding well with positivity, especially in the running.
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Jimbo

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #168 on: January 15, 2021, 01:58:49 PM »

Really positive few sessions with the bat for England - if not for Rory Burns - with Root looking imperious, Bairstow excellent last night and Lawrence calm and assured today.  Accepted, there was some rubbish bowled at points, but it was refreshing to see that the "bat time" message was melding well with positivity, especially in the running.

Bairstow looked good yesterday but I'm not sure a handy 40 odd is going to be enough to keep him in the side with Stokes, Pope and Burns available. Lawrence is a far more interesting question given that he looks to have a far higher ceiling as a Test player at this point.
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Manormanic

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2021, 03:05:41 PM »

Bairstow looked good yesterday but I'm not sure a handy 40 odd is going to be enough to keep him in the side with Stokes, Pope and Burns available. Lawrence is a far more interesting question given that he looks to have a far higher ceiling as a Test player at this point.

They're different cases, aren't they - Bairstow's main value to England is in the here and now; he's one of our best players of spin, and one of our few players to have success with the bat in Australia (though oddly I did wonder yesterday whether he was becoming a sort of horses for courses selection, good in any conditions except his home ones) whereas anything we see from Lawrence in the next 18 months is hopefully the downpayment on the 8-10 years afterward.

As for "the side" I think for the next few months Burns is the guy who looks under pressure - he has not done anything in a year now, and has not looked to have huge options against spin in the past.  Stokes obviously comes in for Curran rather than one of the batsmen, and I reckon depending on your viewpoint it becomes either YJB vs Lawrence for the number three berth or two from three for the combined 3 and 6.

There is also the longer term view of where this all leaves us around the Ashes - all of those named above probably make our strongest squad, unless Malan gets a deserved but perhaps now unlikely recall as a top class back foot player.
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Jimbo

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2021, 03:17:22 PM »

Fair point about Bairstow vs spin, but I'm not convinced India are going to be preparing the kind of absurdly spin favouring tracks we might expect. Their pace attack, in terms of quality and depth, is ridiculous - Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Siraj, Saini, Natarajan - so why wouldn't they make best use of it? Given that, Bairstow's well documented struggles against quality pace bowling could be a major factor in selectors decision making.
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Manormanic

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2021, 03:44:29 PM »

Fair point about Bairstow vs spin, but I'm not convinced India are going to be preparing the kind of absurdly spin favouring tracks we might expect. Their pace attack, in terms of quality and depth, is ridiculous - Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Siraj, Saini, Natarajan - so why wouldn't they make best use of it? Given that, Bairstow's well documented struggles against quality pace bowling could be a major factor in selectors decision making.

I imagine India will prepare the same pitches they always do - dry, hard on day one but wearing gradually as the game goes on so that day five can be a bit of a minefield - and will pick the same attack they always have of two quicks, two spinners and a fifth option to suit the conditions, because even if there is some room to manouvre for the groundsmen, it is still limited by the heat and relative lack of moisture at this time of year.  They do have better resources in terms of pace bowling than they have previously enjoyed but in that area they still are no better than on par with the wealth of resources England can summon - Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Curran, Archer, Wood, Stone, Overton etc. so why rely on that when their options in terms of spinners and their batsmen's ability to play spin are so far ahead?

Though actually, I think "absurdly spin favouring tracks" is a misnomer anyway.  You get those in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, yes, where balls turn sharply from the offset and the bounce can be "interesting" but Indian tracks conditions, day five apart, tend to be far more about the process of attrition and wearing a batsman down than about wonder balls - hence 1) why Jadeja, who barely turns the ball at all, and Ashwin who flicks more than rips it but both attack the stumps are successful, but leggies are not and 2) why England have only won there when they had both the supreme concentration of Cook and the ability to score at pace of Pietersen at their respective peaks.
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ppccopener

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2021, 05:52:19 PM »

There's Pope to come in if you are looking at this years tours and Ashes, he's a shoe in for me, as talented as Root I think.

I would like to see us develop with a younger batting line up, I wouldn't have Bairstow in a month of Sunday's with Malan left at home for these  tours, and Joe Denly for that matter if we are talking experienced players.

Our line up may depend a lot on whether Crawley does end up a candidate for opening the batting, I'm not convinced myself if you don't open in County you can do it in tests.

He looks like he prefers to play his shots and 3 does seem a good position at the moment. If England see him having the ability and potential to open there may only be one of Sibley or Burns going forward.

It's early days of course but Lawrence has come in and taken his chances which is very pleasing.

It may of helped him that Silverwood was Essex coach, he knows the player and says he was ready to step up....so having worked with him before can be an advantage and disadvantage I suppose.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2021, 06:00:49 PM »

Disagree about burns, he's a shoe in next to Sibley with Crawley at three

The only free space we have is at 6

Burns had 2 test hundreds and a 90odd last summer deserved a ton but got out selflessly setting target.

Our top 5 should be for the foreseeable:

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes

Then one of pope/Lawrence

Keeper (so buttler)

Bairstow is the batsman that goes on all the tours as cover.. he shouldn't play
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alexhilly1492

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2021, 06:03:54 PM »

Not to mention they only played 6 tests last summer so saying burns has not done anything in a year is harsh given it wasn't a normal year
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Jimbo

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2021, 06:16:18 PM »

Not to mention they only played 6 tests last summer so saying burns has not done anything in a year is harsh given it wasn't a normal year

It's not untrue though. May not be Burns' fault but if you're not in the side and scoring runs, and somebody else is, then you slide down the pecking order.
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alba caerulea

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2021, 06:35:45 PM »

I also think Burns could be the one most in danger but I think the selectors like him as a proper opener and experienced leader. Realistically Lawrence is not going to be in the first choice 11 unless he stays in the side for India and hits a couple of tons. Had a good chance today but seemed to lose his head a bit after getting to 60.

Id love to see Malan in that Ashes squad. I went on the last Ashes tour and he was the only batsman, excluding the Cook marathon, that showed anything resembling a backbone in terms of taking the attack on. However, whilst I dont think Ed Smith is averse to a left field selection, Malan will have to have a significantly better Championship season this year than last to be considered.

I dont think Bairstow is in Englands stongest Test 11 in any conditions.
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BitsandBats

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2021, 06:54:05 PM »

Lawrence makes me want an Icon.  ;)
I also really wish Root used someone other than NB, and went back to GM or something. I'm not saying that his runs would look better with a different bat, but his runs would totally look better with a classier bat.  :D :D


I agree completely but I dont think he would ever go back to GM (but dont quote me on that)....I do know for certain that whilst at GM he used Kippax bats stickered up, as for a period GM weren't doing specific blades for him just the general Octane ones at the time in the best willow (used one for about 6 weeks, by far the best bat I will ever lay my hands on!). I believe GM found out about this and that was an issue...now at NB they arent bothered as they don't "make his bats" anyway and they understand that, same as Kohli at MRF etc....But I agree completely NB just arent classy! They may do themselves more justice if they did an all white range such as Kooka Ghost style.
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jp2408

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2021, 07:35:20 PM »

I also think Burns could be the one most in danger but I think the selectors like him as a proper opener and experienced leader. Realistically Lawrence is not going to be in the first choice 11 unless he stays in the side for India and hits a couple of tons. Had a good chance today but seemed to lose his head a bit after getting to 60.

Id love to see Malan in that Ashes squad. I went on the last Ashes tour and he was the only batsman, excluding the Cook marathon, that showed anything resembling a backbone in terms of taking the attack on. However, whilst I dont think Ed Smith is averse to a left field selection, Malan will have to have a significantly better Championship season this year than last to be considered.

I dont think Bairstow is in Englands stongest Test 11 in any conditions.

To be fair to Lawrence he batted in 30 degree heat and ridiculous humidity for 2 and a half hours, running lots of singles with Root. He's also only 23 and didn't have much time to acclimatise (not that many of them did, but some have been on the England strength and conditioning programmes for longer). I'll allow him a brain fart or two having posted a fluent 70 odd on debut!
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alba caerulea

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Re: England v Sri lanka
« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2021, 08:06:31 PM »

To be fair to Lawrence he batted in 30 degree heat and ridiculous humidity for 2 and a half hours, running lots of singles with Root. He's also only 23 and didn't have much time to acclimatise (not that many of them did, but some have been on the England strength and conditioning programmes for longer). I'll allow him a brain fart or two having posted a fluent 70 odd on debut!

Im not suggesting he was bad by any means, he looked flawless until he got to 60. And I was very impressed by his intent to score albeit against some shocking deliveries from the off and leg spinner early on. He just suddenly got frenetic and should have been out twice to bad shots before he was finally out to a decent ball. 60s wont keep him in this England side when all players are available. Hundreds might.

I dont buy the acclimatisation story, its modern cricket, hes been there as long as the rest of the players and been on various A tours previously. Sink or swim in that regard, the days of having weeks and plenty of warm up matches before Tests are long gone
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