Topic: England v Sri lanka (Read 45320 times)

ch1p · « **Reply #270 on:** January 18, 2021, 08:34:10 PM »

IMO the order of keeping ability goes:

Foakes

Bracey

Buttler - Bairstow

We of course know that it doesn�t matter when it comes to selection though. I am a keeper though so biased 🤫

Don�t want to speak way way too soon but if these two tours put a spanner in the works of Sibley�s career - would Bracey come into keep and open the batting?

Manormanic · « **Reply #271 on:** January 18, 2021, 08:36:48 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on January 18, 2021, 08:16:45 PM

Haven't seen much of Bracey, but Buttler is definitely nowhere near Foakes as a keeper. IMO not much between Bairstow and Buttler with the gloves, both reasonably competent without being impressive.

Mike Atherton was good on this. To the effect that neither is great, but Bairstow makes way fewer howlers.

Jimbo · « **Reply #272 on:** January 18, 2021, 09:13:31 PM »

Quote from: ch1p on January 18, 2021, 08:34:10 PM

IMO the order of keeping ability goes:

Foakes

Bracey

Buttler - Bairstow

We of course know that it doesn�t matter when it comes to selection though. I am a keeper though so biased 🤫

Don�t want to speak way way too soon but if these two tours put a spanner in the works of Sibley�s career - would Bracey come into keep and open the batting?

Not convinced keeping is compatible with top order batting to the best of your ability. Look at Sangakkara's average when keeping and when not. The physical and mental effort of doing both is going to stop players from excelling at either as they might have.

Manormanic · « **Reply #273 on:** January 18, 2021, 09:55:57 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on January 18, 2021, 09:13:31 PM

Not convinced keeping is compatible with top order batting to the best of your ability. Look at Sangakkara's average when keeping and when not. The physical and mental effort of doing both is going to stop players from excelling at either as they might have.

Also look at how almost every batsman/keeper has an average that tails off markedly as the game moves thru first, second, third and fourth innings, even when batting 7.....

SouthpawMark · « **Reply #274 on:** January 18, 2021, 10:56:01 PM »

If England are going to be playing 2-3 spinners in India, then I think playing a specialist keeper is a must. Leave Buttler and Bairstow to concentrate on their batting, as if England are going to do anything in India they are going to have to do a LOT of batting.

Jimbo · « **Reply #275 on:** January 18, 2021, 11:31:55 PM »

Quote from: SouthpawMark on January 18, 2021, 10:56:01 PM

If England are going to be playing 2-3 spinners in India, then I think playing a specialist keeper is a must. Leave Buttler and Bairstow to concentrate on their batting, as if England are going to do anything in India they are going to have to do a LOT of batting.

Do they both get in as specialist batsmen in India though?

Bairstow hasn't shown he's overcome his weakness against top quality pace bowling of which India seemingly have limitless reserves.

Buttler could conceivably bat at 6 but I'd rather have Lawrence/Pope in as a specialist 6 with a top 5 of presumably Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root and Stokes.

If Foakes comes in that's number 7 spot taken, AN All-rounder at 8, specialist bowlers at 9, 10 and 11. Not sure where the JBs fit in to that team.

Manormanic · « **Reply #276 on:** January 19, 2021, 10:38:24 AM »

Quote from: Jimbo on January 18, 2021, 11:31:55 PM

Do they both get in as specialist batsmen in India though?

Bairstow hasn't shown he's overcome his weakness against top quality pace bowling of which India seemingly have limitless reserves.

Buttler could conceivably bat at 6 but I'd rather have Lawrence/Pope in as a specialist 6 with a top 5 of presumably Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root and Stokes.

If Foakes comes in that's number 7 spot taken, AN All-rounder at 8, specialist bowlers at 9, 10 and 11. Not sure where the JBs fit in to that team.

I certainly think Jonny does, and would possibly even make an argument for Buttler - I know India have some good pace bowlers, but the conditions still mean they will not get huge amounts of movement, and we know they are two of our better players of spin. That said, I suspect it is all a moot point because it sounds like England intend to take seperate, or at least partially seperate squads for the first two and last two tests!

jonny77 · « **Reply #277 on:** January 19, 2021, 10:48:23 AM »

I think if you put Lawrence or Pope ahead of them at this stage it looks a fairly inexperienced top order. Burns, Sibley and Crawley aren't hugely experienced, so huge could be a lot of pressure on Root and Stokes, then a fairly inexperienced Pope or Lawrence at 6.

I personally think opening spots could be more of the issue tho. Burns and Sibley don't massively convince me that they'll be good enough long term, but we'll see. I could see Crawley staying there.

Great that we have options tho. Future looks good batting wise!

Jimbo · « **Reply #278 on:** January 19, 2021, 11:16:51 AM »

Quote from: jonny77 on January 19, 2021, 10:48:23 AM

I think if you put Lawrence or Pope ahead of them at this stage it looks a fairly inexperienced top order. Burns, Sibley and Crawley aren't hugely experienced, so huge could be a lot of pressure on Root and Stokes, then a fairly inexperienced Pope or Lawrence at 6.

I personally think opening spots could be more of the issue tho. Burns and Sibley don't massively convince me that they'll be good enough long term, but we'll see. I could see Crawley staying there.

Great that we have options tho. Future looks good batting wise!

Sibley looks good against pace, may just be that he doesn't open in the subcontinent going forward.

Burns is probably slightly more of a worry because his technique is so dependent on everything working smoothly and I'm not sure how he can do that without much match sharpness. When he gets it right though he's got heaps of FC experience, he's a leader and a great slip catcher.

jonny77 · « **Reply #279 on:** January 19, 2021, 11:42:52 AM »

Yeah he has, but can't say I've been convinced by him at Test level consistently. Hopefully they'll both prove to be good, solid opening bats at this level but not sure they're there yet. Which is why I'd be hesitant to throw to many more younger/less experienced players into a series in India. Although Lawrence looked good and Pope obviously has class, so neither would be a leftfield selection. Just maybe more of a risk?

Jimbo · « **Reply #280 on:** January 19, 2021, 12:28:40 PM »

Going by how the Aussies have done, I'd say it's probably just as much of a risk to stick with players who haven't shown any signs of really kicking on at Test level though. Bairstow and Buttler, IMO, have had more than enough chances to crack test cricket and haven't convinced long term. I see way more potential long term upside in Foakes, Pope, Lawrence.

jonny77 · « **Reply #281 on:** January 19, 2021, 01:32:53 PM »

You could well be right mate. I'd stick with Bairstow though, I'm a fan and hopefully he's sorted a few technical issues. If not, then I'd go with Pope at 6 I think.

edge · « **Reply #282 on:** January 19, 2021, 01:57:30 PM »

Quote from: jonny77 on January 19, 2021, 01:32:53 PM

hopefully he's sorted a few technical issues.

Judging by the clip of him vs Anderson in the warmup match, his issues defending vs pace are very much still there. Different player vs spin though.

Manormanic · « **Reply #283 on:** January 19, 2021, 02:40:14 PM »

Quote from: jonny77 on January 19, 2021, 11:42:52 AM

Yeah he has, but can't say I've been convinced by him at Test level consistently. Hopefully they'll both prove to be good, solid opening bats at this level but not sure they're there yet.

I think our three relatively experienced top order players all have some proving to do against spin. Sibley it is perhaps a little harsh to signal out at this stage for two dismissals - the first was a slight technical glitch that he could work on the second a bare misjudgement that lets face it can happen. Burns has had more issues in his Test career to date with spin, had a poor end to the season and is no longer in possession but there is a lot of upside with him - he has shown a shed load of courage and application so far, and it is fair to say that his being left handed is also an advantage (though people criticise Bairstow and Buttler's averages and Burns has the lowest of any of our batsmen from a now reasonable sample size). Crawley...like Sibley will find it easier in India where the spinners do not routinely take the new ball.

For me, whilst all three might play the first test in England next Summer, they are fighting for at most two spots for the rest of the winter. Root, Bairstow, Stokes are our best three players of spin, in that order, and I think if we are honest Buttler, Lawrence and Foakes come next (Pope I just have not seen play that much, and I am not convinced his shoulder will let him take part)

jonny77 · « **Reply #284 on:** January 19, 2021, 03:14:15 PM »

Quote from: edge on January 19, 2021, 01:57:30 PM

Judging by the clip of him vs Anderson in the warmup match, his issues defending vs pace are very much still there. Different player vs spin though.

Was it not Butler who Anderson cleaned up in the warm up match? Tbf tho, there's no shame in that!

Author Topic: England v Sri lanka (Read 45320 times)

ch1p

Re: England v Sri lanka

Manormanic

Re: England v Sri lanka

Jimbo

Re: England v Sri lanka

Manormanic

Re: England v Sri lanka

SouthpawMark

Re: England v Sri lanka

Jimbo

Re: England v Sri lanka

Manormanic

Re: England v Sri lanka

jonny77

Re: England v Sri lanka

Jimbo

Re: England v Sri lanka

jonny77

Re: England v Sri lanka

Jimbo

Re: England v Sri lanka

jonny77

Re: England v Sri lanka

edge

Re: England v Sri lanka

Manormanic

Re: England v Sri lanka

jonny77

Re: England v Sri lanka