ENG vs IND series
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Jlscarroll17

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #615 on: February 14, 2021, 10:54:55 AM »

Maybe slightly foolish but I think its just a reality that hes not good enough to survive playing steady cricket. Selfish and Stupid are far wide of the mark im afraid. Broads a very intelligent cricketer

Hes contributed quick runs plenty of times, the most memorable for me was at Melbourne in partnership with Cook.

My comparison with Sibley was of course an extreme example to make a mockery of your criticism. Sibley is picked to bat. Broad is picked to bowl. If you wish to criticise anyones batting start with the top 6 in this innings! Any runs that come from numbers 10 and 11 are very much bonus runs.

Can’t really be a mockery of criticism, broad has batting stats to prove he’s capable where as sibley definitely doesn’t have bowling stats to go off, but that’s fine everyone is allowed an opinion on the matter
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Whispering Death

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #616 on: February 14, 2021, 10:55:39 AM »

Funnily enough they had a shot of the possible stumping from the other side on that one!

India have been by far the better team here but would be nice to have a fair chance
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 10:58:32 AM by Whispering Death »
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #617 on: February 14, 2021, 10:58:35 AM »

So you are saying superstition in batting position is key to success. Well, if you can bat, you should be able to bat at any position depending on the requirement of the team.
Well if you try something new and it fails doesn't mean you stop trying , do you?
Jason roy is a great white ball opener and england gave him a chance to open in tests  thinking he will succeed but he didn't, so be it. trial/errors are part and parcel of anything.
Virendra sehwag always batted in the middle order for his domestic side, but india gave him a chance to open in tests and he flourished.
there are many other players who bat different positions at international level from their domestic side.
root batting at no 3 doesn't make him any lesser batsman than at no 4.

"Superstition" is not the difference between 3 and 4, don't be daft. For starters, on average you'll be coming in against fresher bowlers and a newer ball. Root likes to score quickly and keep things ticking over, much harder against a new ball that is doing more.

Secondly, test cricket is a hugely mental game. You couldn't even begin to count the number of players with great technique who haven't been able to succeed in test cricket because they didn't have the mental side of their game mastered. If Root's mentality is better at 4, which statistics suggest is true, then that's where he should bat.

As for Roy, he might have done well as an opener in Australia in the style of Warner but that's not where he was selected is it? If you couldn't tell that Roy was going to struggle opening the batting in tests in England then you shouldn't be an England selector. Even in white ball where there's less movement on the ball, he nicks through the slips a lot.
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #618 on: February 14, 2021, 11:01:00 AM »

Not sure I agree with this. Yes, you can't criticise Broad for not scoring runs but every player in the 11 should be making an effort to try and bat to the game situation.

Whether they do it successfully or not shouldn't be a reason to criticise a number 11, fair enough, but the application and attitude was really poor from Broad. If he'd got out trying to hold up an end with Foakes then no criticism warranted.

0 slogging is worth the same as 0 blocking.

Sibley was widely praised for his gritty 87 in the first test, whilst someone on here called Pants innings of 92 stupid and lucky!

I have very little interest in the methods someone uses to get their runs. Especially tailenders. You either score them or you don't.
Burns batting like Tufnell or Lawrence looking like a frightened schoolboy would be higher up my agenda if I was England coach
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #619 on: February 14, 2021, 11:03:07 AM »

Can’t really be a mockery of criticism, broad has batting stats to prove he’s capable where as sibley definitely doesn’t have bowling stats to go off, but that’s fine everyone is allowed an opinion on the matter

So Broad should be criticised for being better than Sibley at 2 disciplines But not consistently producing in the second of those?

Seems unduly harsh to me
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #620 on: February 14, 2021, 11:03:26 AM »

0 slogging is worth the same as 0 blocking.

Well that's just not true, it depends on what you allow the bloke at the other end to get. Are you forgetting Leach's famous 1*? I didn't see anyone calling for his head for slow scoring or not getting enough runs.
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #621 on: February 14, 2021, 11:04:33 AM »

0 slogging is worth the same as 0 blocking.

not if you bat time and let the other batter score runs - what would have happened if Leach had got one and got out slogging at Headingley when Stokes won the game?
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #622 on: February 14, 2021, 11:06:56 AM »

Well that's just not true, it depends on what you allow the bloke at the other end to get. Are you forgetting Leach's famous 1*? I didn't see anyone calling for his head for slow scoring or not getting enough runs.

Very true, he was playing the situation and did it well.

The conditions and match situation here though are very different. Was Foakes likely to score 285* while Broad gritted it out for 5 sessions at the other end? The game was long gone by the time Broad was padding up
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ppccopener

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #623 on: February 14, 2021, 11:10:21 AM »

Broad should of done everything possible to support the batsman who was in.

That's his job for the team
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #624 on: February 14, 2021, 11:11:07 AM »

Very true, he was playing the situation and did it well.

The conditions and match situation here though are very different. Was Foakes likely to score 285* while Broad gritted it out for 5 sessions at the other end? The game was long gone by the time Broad was padding up

Leach was last man in with 76 needed to win in the second innings. It was pretty unlikely they'd get that total as well given how the Aussies were bowling.

My criticism of Broad isn't of his ability, it's his application. As an absolute minimum I'd expect professional sportsmen to apply themselves. Being behind in the game (in the first innings especially) isn't an excuse to just chuck your wicket away.
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #625 on: February 14, 2021, 11:12:27 AM »

Leach was last man in with 76 needed to win in the second innings. It was pretty unlikely they'd get that total as well given how the Aussies were bowling.

My criticism of Broad isn't of his ability, it's his application. As an absolute minimum I'd expect professional sportsmen to apply themselves. Being behind in the game (in the first innings especially) isn't an excuse to just chuck your wicket away.

76 is slightly different to 200 on a turning track.

I cant believe England have been skittled for 130 and their number 11s batting approach is attracting criticism 😂

Only on CBF!
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #626 on: February 14, 2021, 11:13:09 AM »

standard Broad, i wonder if someone had done as badly a thought out piece of fielding as the way he got out when he was bowling what Broad's reaction would have been?

i expect a lot of shouting and a double tea pot!!
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #627 on: February 14, 2021, 11:16:29 AM »

standard Broad, i wonder if someone had done as badly a thought out piece of fielding as the way he got out when he was bowling what Broad's reaction would have been?

i expect a lot of shouting and a double tea pot!!

Probably yeah, but thats part of what makes him the bowler he is. Anderson is the same when a catch goes down.

We'll miss them when they're gone!
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #628 on: February 14, 2021, 11:18:08 AM »

76 is slightly different to 200 on a turning track.

I cant believe England have been skittled for 130 and their number 11s batting approach is attracting criticism 😂

Only on CBF!

They didn't need to get 200 though, did they? It's the first innings, the approach should have been to try and keep going and allow Foakes to keep batting as long as possible.

Criticism of the batsmen is a different issue and you're welcome to start a discussion on that too if you'd like 😂
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More Glue Than Wood

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #629 on: February 14, 2021, 11:21:45 AM »

Probably yeah, but thats part of what makes him the bowler he is. Anderson is the same when a catch goes down.

We'll miss them when they're gone!

that is true - we will miss them - just wonder if they really need to be like that to be at their best - not sure you help your team by being like that - i play with two guys that are the same about catches and misfields - except when you pick them up for making mistakes - they have a right strop

always get the impression with those sort of people that it is one rule for them and one for another
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