Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 197342 times)

six and out · « **Reply #750 on:** February 15, 2021, 01:57:11 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 15, 2021, 01:22:20 PM

That's a fair point but wasn't he on a pretty horrible run before this series anyway?

A quick cricinfo search says he averaged 28.22 in 2020 in 9 innings with a top score of 90

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #751 on:** February 15, 2021, 02:05:38 PM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on February 15, 2021, 01:56:33 PM

And thats generous. Dent and Slater, deary me

I was suggesting they would do about the same as all the others have done. And, yes, it might be being generous.

Manormanic · « **Reply #752 on:** February 15, 2021, 04:51:15 PM »

Since von Strauss retired, England have culled openers with frightening regularity, never returning to give any of those tried another chance. Reflecting on how bloody difficult the lot of the England opener can be, on balance I would like to see both Burns and Sibley given longer to make it. Sibley, to be fair, is nowhere near the chop anyway, mind.

That doesn't mean Burns should play the next two tests - Bairstow will come in for someone, as might Crawley, but when we are back in England, I think he starts.

ppccopener · « **Reply #753 on:** February 15, 2021, 05:08:52 PM »

Bairstow to be fair did pretty well in SL, no big scores but scored a few and did bat responsibly in some tricky times, and he can play spin pretty well.

I think England are sure to play him, of the players we have available just not sure who they will drop to get him in.
Burns has missed out some practice from the previous tour and has done an ok job so far, not great, but ok.

I can't see England picking Crawley, he may be our best long term bet but didn't score in SL and hasn't played so far in the two matches.Tough ask for him.

Plus I don't think they will want to leave out Lawrence, again, at some point you have to get these guys in and give them a run.

The only batting change I can see is Bairstow opening for Burns and leaving Lawrence at 3 with Root 4.

If the next match is under lights you would think our seamers would have more of a chance and that means getting Jimmy back and maybe going with one spinner.

I'm keeping Stone in the side and Broad with some movement if there is any.

It's not all doom and gloom, we will lose here but I'm backing us in the next game if it's going to help the seamers a bit more than this game.

A-Swing-And-A-Miss · « **Reply #754 on:** February 15, 2021, 05:22:24 PM »

One thing I've always found interesting is that we adapt our bowling attack a lot to deal with the different environments as we tour the world but just expect to play virtually the same batsmen regardless. For middle order batsmen that does make sense as regardless of where in the world you play, in the 30-80 over period you're going to face a mixture of spin and pace with the older ball regardless. Obviously somewhere like England the amount of spin bowled in that period will be less than it will be India in the same period but it's not completely different.

But in that first 30 over period the difference in what you will face is massive. In the likes of England and New Zealand you'll be tested predominantly by full, swinging deliveries around off stump. In Australia you'll typically be tested more by seam movement than by swing and there will be more short pitched bowling to test you on the back foot too. As you go to the sub continent openers find themselves facing spin very early on with the hard ball, often they'll even be starting their innings against spin. Obviously there are a small number of world class openers who can handle all 3 situations, reent examples for England being Cook and possibly Strauss, but right now I don't think we have anybody who is good enough to master all of those different situations so surely it makes sense to use the best openers for each situation? For example Jennings was hopeless in England (average of under 20) but had an average of over 40 in the sub continent. Would it not have been worth having him in the touring group?

Manormanic · « **Reply #755 on:** February 15, 2021, 05:31:48 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on February 15, 2021, 05:08:52 PM

Bairstow to be fair did pretty well in SL, no big scores but scored a few and did bat responsibly in some tricky times, and he can play spin pretty well.

I think England are sure to play him, of the players we have available just not sure who they will drop to get him in.
Burns has missed out some practice from the previous tour and has done an ok job so far, not great, but ok.

I can't see England picking Crawley, he may be our best long term bet but didn't score in SL and hasn't played so far in the two matches.Tough ask for him.

Plus I don't think they will want to leave out Lawrence, again, at some point you have to get these guys in and give them a run.

The only batting change I can see is Bairstow opening for Burns and leaving Lawrence at 3 with Root 4.

If the next match is under lights you would think our seamers would have more of a chance and that means getting Jimmy back and maybe going with one spinner.

I'm keeping Stone in the side and Broad with some movement if there is any.

It's not all doom and gloom, we will lose here but I'm backing us in the next game if it's going to help the seamers a bit more than this game.

The fact that it is day night would be my reason for not going for Bairstow to open. I think he will come in for Lawrence, unless Dan plays a blinder tomorrow, with Crawley for Burns. I too would go three seamers - the ageless duo and one speedster, plus Leach.

Jimbo · « **Reply #756 on:** February 15, 2021, 06:26:50 PM »

Haven't really followed a day/night test in India before, does it really offer that much to the swing/seam bowlers?

six and out · « **Reply #757 on:** February 15, 2021, 06:44:06 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 15, 2021, 06:26:50 PM

Haven't really followed a day/night test in India before, does it really offer that much to the swing/seam bowlers?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-world-test-championship-2019-2021-1195334/india-vs-bangladesh-2nd-test-1187017/full-scorecard

The only D/N Test in India was against Bangladesh at Eden Gardens and India walked it as expected. Interestingly at the Bangladesh wickets fell to the India seam attack. I think it was more Bangladesh were rubbish though. Ashwin and Jadeja were both still picked just weren't required.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #758 on:** February 15, 2021, 06:53:54 PM »

Very much on the point of picking your younger talent and giving them time Crawley must come back in. He would have played the first two tests if not picking up an injury and no one has done well enough for him not to get his place back. He was picked in front of Lawrence so for me comes back into No3 slot as Lawrence is not a no3 at any stage of his first class career.

As for the openers I think you stick with them as has been said we have chopped and changed with regularity since Strauss and Cook and I do believe they are the best from the crop we have. If you believe that one of them is dropped due to poor performance than YJB could fill a slot but isn�t a solution for the longer term. Again he has played 40odd tests and has been dropped and not shown a reason to walk back in and will play only due to this rotation policy we are using due to the amount of cricket we are playing in next 12 months with what I believe the end goal of winning in Aus and I don�t see him being in our staring 11 for the first test.

As for the others mentioned in CC in England none are a long term solution but there is evidence of those that are new and unknown to opposing bowlers so well at the start until any flaws are found out and as we know the step up is extreme from CC to test cricket but if you felt that Burns who looks the more likely is not worth a place in your side you could show horn someone in.

With my Kent hat on Denley was regarded as a great player of spin and was very good at securing the top of the order but again was deemed to not be at the level required after a decent run of tests. Daniel bell Drummond was touted as a England opener is a solid CC performer as is Sam Northeast but not in the opening slot that people seem to think both on this forum and in the written media is our weak link not just on this tour but in general.

Sibley has a technical flaw with the angle of his bat at 45degree angle when playing spin in defence and can get stuck at the end without a release shot and Burns has just not played any cricket really and has never by all accounts played in these conditions.
The over whelming fact is that in the 3 days of this test we have been off the pace both with bat and ball and I think you have to give them this series and go from there. Sibley will have had two series in the sub continent and of the powers that be decide he isn�t for them in maybe these conditions that�ll as someone mentioned maybe we need to pick our batters based on the situations be believe we will have to face.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #759 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:01:26 PM »

We're very good at spotting these 'technical flaws', aren't we?

Jeff Navarro · « **Reply #760 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:02:28 PM »

Surely selection for Ahmedabad is dependant on Ben Stokes? If he�s unable to bowl we end up with 3 main bowler plus Moeen the all round met. We need a fifth bowler. So could Stokes bat at 3? Get Woakes in as another all rounder.
Burns, Sibley, Stokes, Root, Pope, Foakes, Moeen, Woakes, Leach, Stone and Anderson.

ppccopener · « **Reply #761 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:24:50 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Navarro on February 15, 2021, 07:02:28 PM

Surely selection for Ahmedabad is dependant on Ben Stokes? If he�s unable to bowl we end up with 3 main bowler plus Moeen the all round met. We need a fifth bowler. So could Stokes bat at 3? Get Woakes in as another all rounder.
Burns, Sibley, Stokes, Root, Pope, Foakes, Moeen, Woakes, Leach, Stone and Anderson.

Some of us are making the assumption as its a day night game seam bowling will play a bigger part than it has up till now. With the last game out there under lights Indian seamers took the wickets.

It's our strength of course, so I for one am not going to get to downhearted when we lose this current game,almost certainly tommorow.

As much as we want to compete on the spin front we just don't have the quality after Leach.
I'm not sure it makes any difference whether it's Ali or Bess selected.....maybe If Ali had shown some better form coming into the game-but he didn't for various reqsons(I think he would of played in SL ahead of Bess,or even with).

Ahmedabad if it plays as some of us hope is our best chance of getting another win.

Jimbo · « **Reply #762 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:25:47 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 15, 2021, 07:01:26 PM

We're very good at spotting these 'technical flaws', aren't we?

Could it be because we watch the television commentary where they do lengthy segments on these kind of things? 🙄 Have a day off man...

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #763 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:37:40 PM »

I'd rather you told me about Chris Dent's technical flaws. Or lack of, hopefully?

alba caerulea · « **Reply #764 on:** February 15, 2021, 08:12:53 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 15, 2021, 07:01:26 PM

We're very good at spotting these 'technical flaws', aren't we?

Alot of wannabee national coaches and selectors. When in reality they don't even do it for their own club sides.

You can repeat what you heard pundits say all you want but guess what - its bloody hard playing away in India. Nigh on Impossible when you lose the toss and the umpires are on the payroll.

There is no one better in County Cricket. The best players are in this squad with a notable mention for Wood and Malan. If India are a better side then so be it. Plucking County pros from obscurity is best left in a bygone era

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 197342 times)

six and out

Re: ENG vs IND series

Bats_Entertainment

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Manormanic

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ppccopener

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A-Swing-And-A-Miss

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Manormanic

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Jimbo

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six and out

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SOULMAN1012

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Bats_Entertainment

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Jeff Navarro

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ppccopener

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Jimbo

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Bats_Entertainment

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alba caerulea

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