ENG vs IND series
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1095 on: February 24, 2021, 11:00:54 PM »
Quote from: adb club cricketer on February 24, 2021, 10:33:30 PM
Yes, that's what they say to have it but the reasoning seems absurd to me as it assumes umpires have zero error rate. And it is contradictory as DRS is in place to fix umpiring howlers (means error rate of umpires is acknowledged to be much higher)
Having known error rate consistent for both teams is better than having unknown error rate of umpires that varies across teams, time of day, varying concentration of umpire etc.

It's not assuming umpire's have zero error rate at all. It's saying the new evidence isn't strong enough to overturn their original decision.
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adb club cricketer

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1096 on: February 24, 2021, 11:12:39 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 24, 2021, 11:00:54 PM
It's not assuming umpire's have zero error rate at all. It's saying the new evidence isn't strong enough to overturn their original decision.
That still means they have more confidence in umpire's original decision isnt it?
Or alternatively put, it means they claim - umpires original decision has lower error rate compared to DRS if ball is hitting stumps by less than 50% and higher error rate (compared to DRS) if ball is hitting stumps by more than 50%?
Doesn't make sense to me or I am missing something.
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LEACHY48

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1097 on: February 25, 2021, 12:18:50 AM »
Quote from: adb club cricketer on February 24, 2021, 11:12:39 PM
That still means they have more confidence in umpire's original decision isnt it?
Or alternatively put, it means they claim - umpires original decision has lower error rate compared to DRS if ball is hitting stumps by less than 50% and higher error rate (compared to DRS) if ball is hitting stumps by more than 50%?
Doesn't make sense to me or I am missing something.

It’s nothing to do with confidence.

Basic rule of cricket is that the umpires decision stands - you can’t argue with him on a Saturday for example.

The technology is there to support and not undermine this system. It allows the umpires some tolerance because there is always doubt with a human decision. 

If the standing umpire deems it out - the technology has to PROVE CATEGORICALLY he is wrong.  The technology cannot do that with 100% certainty. Ergo the margin of error is built into the DRS system.

It’s the same as confidence limits in statistical analysis, and tolerances on calibrations etc.

Also, if you remove umpires call you might as well remove umpires entirely, and the game would be over in 2.5 days - great to watch and for all involved 👌
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 12:21:57 AM by LEACHY48 »
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six and out

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1098 on: February 25, 2021, 07:23:38 AM »
Quote from: LEACHY48 on February 25, 2021, 12:18:50 AM
It’s nothing to do with confidence.

Basic rule of cricket is that the umpires decision stands - you can’t argue with him on a Saturday for example.

The technology is there to support and not undermine this system. It allows the umpires some tolerance because there is always doubt with a human decision. 

If the standing umpire deems it out - the technology has to PROVE CATEGORICALLY he is wrong.  The technology cannot do that with 100% certainty. Ergo the margin of error is built into the DRS system.

It’s the same as confidence limits in statistical analysis, and tolerances on calibrations etc.

Also, if you remove umpires call you might as well remove umpires entirely, and the game would be over in 2.5 days - great to watch and for all involved 👌

A couple of things regards the umpiring -

Home Umpires at the moment and the ICC therefore giving an extra review because of this is ridiculous and very undermining for them. No matter what country you are in they are still Panel umpires so should still be able to do their job, so by giving the extra review what are they saying their bias?!

Secondly the 'Umpires Call' I feel is a neccessary thing due to the technology never being 100% and also the thing about the umpire being right. However, I do believe that the teams have started playing on it knowing they won't lose a review and also it is in the umpires minds knowing their decision will be questioned whether its just clipping or crashing into all 3.

Lastly, this series is showing more and more the need for the 3rd Umpire to become a specialist position.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 07:28:03 AM by six and out »
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1099 on: February 25, 2021, 07:29:31 AM »
I think the point of the extra review is to try and reduce the impression of bias, not to imply that the umpires are biased.
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edge

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1100 on: February 25, 2021, 07:32:42 AM »
Umpire's call is a farce. It's a fudge at best but now with extra reviews it's increasingly morphing into a total waste of time. If it's about accuracy then why does it apply to ball tracking as well as prediction?
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1101 on: February 25, 2021, 08:03:41 AM »
Quote from: edge on February 25, 2021, 07:32:42 AM
Umpire's call is a farce. It's a fudge at best but now with extra reviews it's increasingly morphing into a total waste of time. If it's about accuracy then why does it apply to ball tracking as well as prediction?

Assuming either a typo or I'm misunderstanding something but what do you mean by that last bit?
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edge

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1102 on: February 25, 2021, 08:14:49 AM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 25, 2021, 08:03:41 AM
Assuming either a typo or I'm misunderstanding something but what do you mean by that last bit?
Hawkeye tracks the ball from the bowler's hand to impact, then predicts where the ball would end up based on that information. The tracking phase of that is undeniably very accurate indeed, yet umpire's call is still used for where the ball pitched, for example.
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rickjames

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1103 on: February 25, 2021, 08:16:56 AM »
Today is going to be awful isn't it
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1104 on: February 25, 2021, 08:20:14 AM »
Quote from: FattusCattus on February 24, 2021, 10:14:43 PM
Bucknor surely!

Id take Bucknors dog over this lot
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1105 on: February 25, 2021, 08:21:44 AM »
Quote from: edge on February 25, 2021, 08:14:49 AM
Hawkeye tracks the ball from the bowler's hand to impact, then predicts where the ball would end up based on that information. The tracking phase of that is undeniably very accurate indeed, yet umpire's call is still used for where the ball pitched, for example.

Ah thanks for explaining. Yeah that does seem a difficult one to wrap your head around.
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six and out

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1106 on: February 25, 2021, 08:45:48 AM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 25, 2021, 07:29:31 AM
I think the point of the extra review is to try and reduce the impression of bias, not to imply that the umpires are biased.

Surely that is the same difference, if you are trying not to give the impression of bias, you must first think there is a possibility of it. A fine line but one I think they are making worse
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ppccopener

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1107 on: February 25, 2021, 08:50:15 AM »
Quote from: rickjames on February 25, 2021, 08:16:56 AM
Today is going to be awful isn't it

It’s disheartening because I for one thought this match with the pink ball and under lights would be our best chance to win. A match.

I’m as sure as everyone else the forth test will be a raging Bunsen.

But it’s not over yet we need everything to go right today and then really try to apply ourselves with the bat. It can be done because Crawley made it look pretty easy yesterday. He’s def one who looks like he can succeed. He has a double ton already which is some achievement this early
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Kulli

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1108 on: February 25, 2021, 08:53:32 AM »
Crawley made it look easy against pace. He was no better than the rest be spin, he just had the advantage of opening.
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ppccopener

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1109 on: February 25, 2021, 09:04:19 AM »
Quote from: Kulli on February 25, 2021, 08:53:32 AM
Crawley made it look easy against pace. He was no better than the rest be spin, he just had the advantage of opening.

The advantage of opening has not been apparent in scores for the openers so far. Sibley has had a 80 odd that’s about it.

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