Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170268 times)

ppccopener · « **Reply #1260 on:** February 25, 2021, 07:33:02 PM »

I'm afraid rightly or wrongly, the rotation has been necessary BUT seems to be in favour of the white ball team.

That is another reason I don't think we get too down on e team. I think Root had his has tied to some extent.

Manormanic · « **Reply #1261 on:** February 25, 2021, 07:43:49 PM »

Quote from: ProCricketer1982 on February 25, 2021, 07:19:23 PM

call me eyore or whatever but the pitch wasn't great.. however.... it wasn't 'that' bad.

It was, and I shall tell you for why.

Noone sensible minds a pitch like we had for the second test (though they may not agree with it) - England were behind the eight ball losing the toss and then bowled poorly throughout, with too many four balls - because whilst it took sharp spin and had dusted by day two, it did so more or less consistently so what you actually saw was that players who had their method worked out and were prepared to get in did manage to survive and prosper.

This pitch, meanwhile, was falling to pieces in some place but holding in others, so batsmen were not just dealing with the one that span massively and the assortment of arm balls, they were also forced to wonder whether one would take off and hit the shoulder AND whether one that was spun hard from the hand would hit the patches that were holding and skid on. In essence, it made batting a lottery, and there is no more satisfaction in seeing very good batsmen made to look stupid because in those situations you are going to guess wrong eventually than there is in seeing great fast bowlers flogged for 200 on a lifeless road.

Sorry, rant over.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1262 on:** February 25, 2021, 08:27:13 PM »

Quote from: Manormanic on February 25, 2021, 07:43:49 PM

It was, and I shall tell you for why.

Noone sensible minds a pitch like we had for the second test (though they may not agree with it) - England were behind the eight ball losing the toss and then bowled poorly throughout, with too many four balls - because whilst it took sharp spin and had dusted by day two, it did so more or less consistently so what you actually saw was that players who had their method worked out and were prepared to get in did manage to survive and prosper.

This pitch, meanwhile, was falling to pieces in some place but holding in others, so batsmen were not just dealing with the one that span massively and the assortment of arm balls, they were also forced to wonder whether one would take off and hit the shoulder AND whether one that was spun hard from the hand would hit the patches that were holding and skid on. In essence, it made batting a lottery, and there is no more satisfaction in seeing very good batsmen made to look stupid because in those situations you are going to guess wrong eventually than there is in seeing great fast bowlers flogged for 200 on a lifeless road.

Sorry, rant over.

so Bairstow's first shot was a 'lottery'... or his second (I mean, huge gap)... Even crawly's shot was pretty bad

so the first game and SL where these same players were lauded as 'greats'.. 'world class'... they were flogging poor bowlers on roads.. yet.. no one said anything then.. all about how great these guys were.

Sure, this wicket really isn't any good.. way to far the other way but... excusing the batsmen for not at least toughing it out for as long as they can isn't good.. still looking to 'be positive'.

Anyway we will always disagree and I suspect I'll always disagree with people who want more run tests and white ball cricket style. I'd take a low scoring fighting track over a 400 plays 400 wicket

InternalTraining · « **Reply #1263 on:** February 25, 2021, 08:31:00 PM »

Test #3 over in 2 days? What a dud!!!

Is that even real Test cricket?

ppccopener · « **Reply #1264 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:02:57 PM »

I've read Manormanic's post different to how you have Pro, he's not saying he wants roads where quality bowlers are reduced to bowling machines. He's saying (I think please correct if I'm wrong) on this wicket two identical balls have done two different things off the pitch...and that is mighty hard to play against.

The trying to hang in their style is seen two ways. Batsman tries to defend and hang in but then gets a nick is it a soft dismissal on wickets like these?. If he uses his feet...which I saw Sibley do a bit....and tries to get down the track but misses is that reckless or a safer way to play on a turning track?. Sometimes you're stuffed either way.

Bairstow misses a straight on ball today presuming he played for spin that wasn't there, but he has got previous with a leaky defence we know.

If it was a club match on a turning track, some of us play down the line and not for the spin, if it spins you nick it or it spins past your bat, if you get to the pitch it don't matter which way it's turning.

There's loads of us on here prefer tests to one day cricket same as you, but this was a bad pitch and we look worse than the Indian batters in their own conditions. There's no real surprise there.

But if it was that easy we would have made it further than club cricket

and most of us havnt.

I think also as another post mentions, the pink ball has made it a bit harder to play than the conventional red one. Maybe it skids more...

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #1265 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:07:25 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on February 25, 2021, 09:02:57 PM

I've read Manormanic's post different to how you have Pro, he's not saying he wants roads where quality bowlers are reduced to bowling machines. He's saying (I think please correct if I'm wrong) on this wicket two identical balls have done two different things off the pitch...and that is mighty hard to play against.

The trying to hang in their style is seen two ways. Batsman tries to defend and hang in but then gets a nick is it a soft dismissal on wickets like these?. If he uses his feet...which I saw Sibley do a bit....and tries to get down the track but misses is that reckless or a safer way to play on a turning track?. Sometimes you're stuffed either way.

Bairstow misses a straight on ball today presuming he played for spin that wasn't there, but he has got previous with a leaky defence we know.

If it was a club match on a turning track, some of us play down the line and not for the spin, if it spins you nick it or it spins past your bat, if you get to the pitch it don't matter which way it's turning.

There's loads of us on here prefer tests to one day cricket same as you, but this was a bad pitch and we look worse than the Indian batters in their own conditions. There's no real surprise there.

But if it was that easy we would have made it further than club cricket and most of us havnt.

I think also as another post mentions, the pink ball has made it a bit harder to play than the conventional red one. Maybe it skids more...

I totally agree with this, but there was also some terrible batting from both sides - 21 of 30 dismissals came from straight balls.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1266 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:09:31 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on February 25, 2021, 09:02:57 PM

I've read Manormanic's post different to how you have Pro, he's not saying he wants roads where quality bowlers are reduced to bowling machines. He's saying (I think please correct if I'm wrong) on this wicket two identical balls have done two different things off the pitch...and that is mighty hard to play against.

The trying to hang in their style is seen two ways. Batsman tries to defend and hang in but then gets a nick is it a soft dismissal on wickets like these?. If he uses his feet...which I saw Sibley do a bit....and tries to get down the track but misses is that reckless or a safer way to play on a turning track?. Sometimes you're stuffed either way.

Bairstow misses a straight on ball today presuming he played for spin that wasn't there, but he has got previous with a leaky defence we know.

If it was a club match on a turning track, some of us play down the line and not for the spin, if it spins you nick it or it spins past your bat, if you get to the pitch it don't matter which way it's turning.

There's loads of us on here prefer tests to one day cricket same as you, but this was a bad pitch and we look worse than the Indian batters in their own conditions. There's no real surprise there.

But if it was that easy we would have made it further than club cricket and most of us havnt.

I think also as another post mentions, the pink ball has made it a bit harder to play than the conventional red one. Maybe it skids more...

This pitch isn't up to test cricket. No one will say it is. Doesn't defend the players though. You can't (As Bairstow did) come out and play a reckless shot like that.. Next ball his usual mode of dismissal was back and yet people still persist he's some great batsmen..

The first test was a dire wicket.. this was a dire wicket.. only decent wicket so far was the 2nd test. Yet, those who are blinkered on England will have loved that first test purely because England got a run fest and feasted on a feather bed. Buffet bowling (if you're scoring 400 it's most likely too much of a road)

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #1267 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:27:31 PM »

What�s really frustrating is that there�s no improvement from England.

Our openers are still not very good, our middle order still isn�t very good, our bowlers are still exceptional and continue to dig us out of a hole created by our batsman.

It�s just utter utter bilge in both selection, and play.

We persist with people like bairstow - who today in my opinion has nailed shut, poured petrol on, and set fire to the coffin that carries his career - yet he�s played 50 tests and averages 34.

Why aren�t we blooding youngsters like bracey/brook/hain etc rather than persisting with something that doesn�t work.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. England epitomise that.

The man management of Bess (who at the moment isn�t ready - but is clearly one for the future) just shows that England management haven�t got a clue.

Manormanic · « **Reply #1268 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:02:57 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on February 25, 2021, 09:02:57 PM

I've read Manormanic's post different to how you have Pro, he's not saying he wants roads where quality bowlers are reduced to bowling machines. He's saying (I think please correct if I'm wrong) on this wicket two identical balls have done two different things off the pitch...and that is mighty hard to play against.

I think you've got the gist there. Short of that Sabina Park trampoline in 96 or thereabouts, I don't think there is anything closer to impossible than playing a quality spinner on a track that is breaking up but doing so unevenly. Aside from the usual problems of a broken surface - sudden bounce and sharp spin, you have the additional issue that you can correctly read what the bowler has intended and one ball will pick up pace and skid through lower whilst the other leaps and turns.

Until India were close enough to hit themselves home, you had two innings of any substance - Crawley and Rohit - and both scored most of their runs against the little seam that was bowled. Everyone else - Root and Kohli possibly excepted - groped around looking daft. Hell, as bad as England appeared, India managed a lead of 30, total. And England picked four seamers, dropped a howler with Kohli, and had the worst of the umpiring.

Note, I am not "defending" any of our batsmen. Well, maybe Root. I'm saying you need to have some understanding for just how difficult that situation was.

adb club cricketer · « **Reply #1269 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:16:37 PM »

Interesting reading and valid points IMO: https://twitter.com/fwildecricket/status/1365009644138201090?s=21

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1270 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:20:02 PM »

Quote from: ProCricketer1982 on February 25, 2021, 09:09:31 PM

This pitch isn't up to test cricket. No one will say it is. Doesn't defend the players though. You can't (As Bairstow did) come out and play a reckless shot like that.. Next ball his usual mode of dismissal was back and yet people still persist he's some great batsmen..

The first test was a dire wicket.. this was a dire wicket.. only decent wicket so far was the 2nd test. Yet, those who are blinkered on England will have loved that first test purely because England got a run fest and feasted on a feather bed. Buffet bowling (if you're scoring 400 it's most likely too much of a road)

No they don�t.

Not having this. Any pitch that gets into a 4th day and leaves a result possible at the end of day 5 is good in my opinion. Beyond your tedious �biffers� agenda, I�m not actually sure what you want to see out of a Test match?!

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1271 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:22:36 PM »

Quote from: adb club cricketer on February 25, 2021, 10:16:37 PM

Interesting reading and valid points IMO: https://twitter.com/fwildecricket/status/1365009644138201090?s=21

Fair points but not accurate to suggest that there was no/little evidence of uneven bounce in my opinion.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #1272 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:25:40 PM »

Quote from: Mtown Don on February 25, 2021, 10:22:36 PM

Fair points but not accurate to suggest that there was no/little evidence of uneven bounce in my opinion.

Totally agree. The first over of the game saw uneven bounce and carry from Sharma. Pant took the first ball at head height and then 3rd didn�t carry. If that�s not uneven bounce I don�t know what is 😂

adb club cricketer · « **Reply #1273 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:39:18 PM »

I think there was the odd bounce once in a while and I am sure there is no pitch anywhere that has same exact bounce for every ball pitched at same place. But in general, the uneven bounce wasn't the cause of any wicket or what made it difficult for batsmen..

ppccopener · « **Reply #1274 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:47:07 PM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on February 25, 2021, 10:25:40 PM

Totally agree. The first over of the game saw uneven bounce and carry from Sharma. Pant took the first ball at head height and then 3rd didn�t carry. If that�s not uneven bounce I don�t know what is 😂

I watched the morning day 1 and saw enough movement in the air and enough uneven bounce to presume although we needed a second spinner there would be enough for our seamers to have an impact.
Normally if there is some uneven bounce, just a bit, it will get worse towards days 4 and 5.
But the game did not get far enough.

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170268 times)

ppccopener

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Manormanic

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ProCricketer1982

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InternalTraining

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ppccopener

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LEACHY48

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ProCricketer1982

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LEACHY48

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Manormanic

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adb club cricketer

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Mtown Don

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Mtown Don

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LEACHY48

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adb club cricketer

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ppccopener

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