ENG vs IND series
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adb club cricketer

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1380 on: March 02, 2021, 06:31:22 PM »

ODI cricket not seamer friendly in the UK?! It's not a coincidence that David Willey and Chris Woakes are opening powerplay phenomenons.
While they do assist seamers somewhat, still last WC and recent ODI series in UK proves pitches are such that 300 plus scores are quite common. England chased 230 odd in 32 overs against Aus attack. Ban chased 322 against WI in 41 overs. Plus Eng made 397 in another game. You don't see such pitches in tests in UK. So cant believe the theory that pitches are what they are only due to overhead conditions.
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Kulli

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1381 on: March 02, 2021, 06:53:06 PM »

White ball doesn’t really swing for long through does it?
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ppccopener

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1382 on: March 02, 2021, 06:58:17 PM »

Comparing test match pitches and ODI pitches in England is an odd comparison to make.

Some of our seamers do well that's true but there's not much swing on offer.

I don't know this for sure but think the traditional dukes or readers balls are not used here and a ball with less of a seam is used.

Happy to be corrected thou.
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jimmy23

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1383 on: March 02, 2021, 07:16:53 PM »

Both on very dry, sunny days with not much swing on offer IIRC?

Both day nighters to be fair, I was at both games, wasn’t that sunny.
Your statement sort of kills your previous argument, if the over head conditions aren’t there there’s is nothing to assist the seamers if it’s a road. But you can you prepare a track where the surface explodes in the first few overs to assist the bowler.
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1384 on: March 02, 2021, 07:30:11 PM »

Both day nighters to be fair, I was at both games, wasn’t that sunny.
Your statement sort of kills your previous argument, if the over head conditions aren’t there there’s is nothing to assist the seamers if it’s a road. But you can you prepare a track where the surface explodes in the first few overs to assist the bowler.

So what exactly are you trying to argue here?

I think it's pretty common knowledge that the red ball does more for longer than the white ball, but also that the white ball does a bit early on which is probably why Woakes and Willey have had such white ball success.

Yes, ODI pitches will generally be more batsman friendly for 100 overs than Test pitches but I imagine those same ODI pitches might behave quite differently if they were played on for 5 days and hundreds more overs?

Not really an apples and apples comparison.
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jimmy23

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1385 on: March 02, 2021, 08:18:17 PM »

Who’s arguing? I thought we were all having a pitch discussion. 🙂
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1386 on: March 02, 2021, 10:09:20 PM »

Who’s arguing? I thought we were all having a pitch discussion. 🙂

Argue - "give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view."
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mo_town

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1387 on: March 03, 2021, 09:21:16 AM »

What world cricket badly needs today is tough challenging pitches all over the world. Pitches all around the world have been sobered down to cater to the wider audience who enjoys big run fests and boundaries galore. One of the biggest side effects of this change has been that the batsmen now take it for granted that pitches will be easy to bat on without much challenge. Which is why every time team play on a challenging pitch, more often than not sided get rolled over. People blame the pitches for test matches not lasting long but dont really see the reasoning behind it. Batsmen today are just not capable of handling tough pitches; be it excessive swing, spin or bounce. Home team are also worried about preparing tough pitches as they are not sure their own team will be able to last on it.
I strongly feel that the need of the hour is tough challenging pitches to bring back the skill element of the game. Looking at pitches today, I cant imagine what inspires young players to become a bowler! A change is needed. Which is why every country should prepare pitches which are challenging. The only country I see doing that today is NZ. I am sure weather conditions are part of the reason, but I cant remember a single pitch in NZ in recent times which was a road.
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Kulli

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1388 on: March 03, 2021, 09:48:32 AM »

There’s a difference between challenging and totally weighted against batting though.

Pitch in their last test wasn’t ‘challenging’ the kiwis scored 600/6 at over 4 an over.
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Manormanic

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1389 on: March 03, 2021, 09:51:27 AM »

ODI cricket not seamer friendly in the UK?! It's not a coincidence that David Willey and Chris Woakes are opening powerplay phenomenons.

Well, Willey is not really a seam bowler. His weapon is swing.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1390 on: March 03, 2021, 09:58:43 AM »

Taking away from the pitch discussion

England have full squad available band jeetan Patel has said Bess is available

Back to two spinners?
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Kulli

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1391 on: March 03, 2021, 10:01:24 AM »

For sure. Think it’s the batting that is the issue but not many options on the bench.
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1392 on: March 03, 2021, 10:10:46 AM »

Taking away from the pitch discussion

England have full squad available band jeetan Patel has said Bess is available

Back to two spinners?

Drop one of Broad or Anderson, bring in Bess. Think they're left with very few other options, can't see them wanting anyone to debut in this game.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1393 on: March 03, 2021, 10:13:26 AM »

That's my thinking too,

Drop broad (Jimmy has been better) play Bess

Which does strengthen the batting slightly as well means archer at 9 which is still one place too high but looks a better balanced side

I'd have probably given woakes a run out too and rested both broad and Jimmy but I think he's flown home?
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ppccopener

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1394 on: March 03, 2021, 10:13:38 AM »

Yeah Bess back in and a seamer out. Back to the red ball and I think if we had Mo available we would go in with three spinners.
But whether to play the extra one England give a debut in this match I just can't see it.

Batting wise we don't have much left unless Lawrence comes back in, I hope they stick with Pope, he's had a rough ride but if he comes thru it may do him a lot of good.

I can't imagine this pitch will be anything other than like the previous one, in which case we will need somehow to put first innings runs on the board.
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