Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170231 times)

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1665 on:** March 08, 2021, 10:45:46 AM »

Quote from: Jimbo on March 08, 2021, 10:43:26 AM

Buttler's record at 6 is really very good though so I can see the argument that Pope would benefit from some time back in county cricket to get back to his best after injury.

fair, wouldn't argue overly. Just like the idea of saying to pope concentrate on County red ball and test match batting and let him develop. Remove the pressure from him. Buttler is what, 29 already?.. avg 35 ish.. maybe just use him as the next rotation batsmen if someone get's injured ? that way, he can focus on white ball which is, lets face.. where he's devastating for England

Jimbo · « **Reply #1666 on:** March 08, 2021, 10:58:53 AM »

Yeah, no question Buttler is most useful in white ball. Buttler's 30 which isn't exactly ancient - same age as Root. Would still back him to have another 5 years as a top international cricketer barring injury.

That said, I'd love to see Foakes given a permanent Test job as keeper and batting 7. Suspect it would do wonders for Leach as well having a genuine world class keeper to work with.

mo_town · « **Reply #1667 on:** March 08, 2021, 12:53:25 PM »

Its not easy managing teams in these times and management/coach need to be cut some slack with all these Bio-bubbles structures and players struggling with it.

Having said that, representing one's country in international competitions should be a matter of pride and always have the highest priority for an individual, and if that means staying in a Bubble away from the family for an extended time so be it. Players need to 'man up'. I know this wont be a popular opinion but I do feel strongly about it. You go on tour, you stay on tour till required.

Jimbo · « **Reply #1668 on:** March 08, 2021, 01:21:27 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 08, 2021, 12:53:25 PM

Its not easy managing teams in these times and management/coach need to be cut some slack with all these Bio-bubbles structures and players struggling with it.

Having said that, representing one's country in international competitions should be a matter of pride and always have the highest priority for an individual, and if that means staying in a Bubble away from the family for an extended time so be it. Players need to 'man up'. I know this wont be a popular opinion but I do feel strongly about it. You go on tour, you stay on tour till required.

And that kind of attitude is exactly why top players like Trescothick and Trott developed mental health problems while playing for England.

Ultimately, cricket is a game we are fans of, not a life and death issue. It's also these players' job.

If my work told me I had to spend months at a time away from my family when somebody else was available to split that time with me, I know exactly where I'd be telling them to go.

SouthpawMark · « **Reply #1669 on:** March 08, 2021, 01:22:31 PM »

It�s their job. If they are selected they should have to decide whether they are in or out. No half measures. If they don�t think they can handle bubble life, then decline. If they think they�re going to need a break then decline. The rotation policy is disruptive to the team, and needs to be re-evaluated.

I�m not saying that those who say no should get a black mark against their name for future tours - they should be free to opt in and out of tours as they see fit for their personal well-being and family. However, if they say no to one tour and them yes to the next tour, then they need to be 100% sure they are capable of seeing it through to the end.

alexhilly1492 · « **Reply #1670 on:** March 08, 2021, 01:39:59 PM »

Quote from: ProCricketer1982 on March 08, 2021, 10:08:04 AM

oh Bayliss really was worse still tbf.

Umm, he's rotating players to 'rest' them but then putting them into the white ball legs and iPL.. why not rest them from the teams that we have many many more options for? makes little to no sense

I do hope they stick with

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes

as the top 7. just let them develop. Only position under review is Burns but even then.. literally no one else sticking their hands up currently. Review in 12 months if he still avg's less than 40

Probably worth saying a good average opening would be 35. There's more outliers north of 40 than good openers who are mainly around 35

six and out · « **Reply #1671 on:** March 08, 2021, 02:16:24 PM »

Quote from: SouthpawMark on March 08, 2021, 01:22:31 PM

It�s their job. If they are selected they should have to decide whether they are in or out. No half measures. If they don�t think they can handle bubble life, then decline. If they think they�re going to need a break then decline. The rotation policy is disruptive to the team, and needs to be re-evaluated.

I�m not saying that those who say no should get a black mark against their name for future tours - they should be free to opt in and out of tours as they see fit for their personal well-being and family. However, if they say no to one tour and them yes to the next tour, then they need to be 100% sure they are capable of seeing it through to the end.

This is how I see it as well.

I do think the England management realise they stuffed this up and the rotation didn't work at all, and they should have had different squads for the SL and India tours and rotated that way.

billyb · « **Reply #1672 on:** March 08, 2021, 02:21:52 PM »

Quote from: SouthpawMark on March 08, 2021, 01:22:31 PM

It�s their job. If they are selected they should have to decide whether they are in or out. No half measures. If they don�t think they can handle bubble life, then decline. If they think they�re going to need a break then decline. The rotation policy is disruptive to the team, and needs to be re-evaluated.

I�m not saying that those who say no should get a black mark against their name for future tours - they should be free to opt in and out of tours as they see fit for their personal well-being and family. However, if they say no to one tour and them yes to the next tour, then they need to be 100% sure they are capable of seeing it through to the end.

Highly recommend you read this article before getting all high and mighty about what players should or shouldn't be able to deal with in the bubble/on tour at the moment.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/12/battles-with-the-bubble-make-england-test-heroics-even-more-remarkable-cricket

mo_town · « **Reply #1673 on:** March 08, 2021, 02:27:45 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on March 08, 2021, 01:21:27 PM

And that kind of attitude is exactly why top players like Trescothick and Trott developed mental health problems while playing for England.

Ultimately, cricket is a game we are fans of, not a life and death issue. It's also these players' job.

If my work told me I had to spend months at a time away from my family when somebody else was available to split that time with me, I know exactly where I'd be telling them to go.

Not if you were representing your country! Not if you were going to wear your country's colors. Its not just a job; its a privilege and a responsibility. Sadly franchise cricket has reduced it to being 'just a job' with no real loyalty. Its like choosing a job where the job description stated 'will only more than 50% travel' and saying I am not comfortable with all the travel involved.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1674 on:** March 08, 2021, 02:39:29 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on March 08, 2021, 01:21:27 PM

And that kind of attitude is exactly why top players like Trescothick and Trott developed mental health problems while playing for England.

Ultimately, cricket is a game we are fans of, not a life and death issue. It's also these players' job.

If my work told me I had to spend months at a time away from my family when somebody else was available to split that time with me, I know exactly where I'd be telling them to go.

I agree. You can't and shouldn't force players to be on tour or stay. However.... they are paid very well to be available all the time (excluding injury).. If you can't/won't fulfil that then you should be paid less. Defiantly shouldn't force people to stay if they mentally can't, that is just wrong bUT.. the pay should reflect that the person is unavailable.

Sadly, when they then rock up for white ball or for the IPL it kinda destroys the mental health argument as you know they are only doing that for the money

edge · « **Reply #1675 on:** March 08, 2021, 04:00:42 PM »

Without rotation players like Buttler/Moeen/YJB/Woakes etc would have gone out to Sri Lanka in the first week of January and stayed stuck staring at hotel walls without seeing their family or friends or doing anything except training/playing until early May. Sounds like a surefire recipe for a breakdown, and you can guarantee anyone put through it would be playing shocking cricket by the end of it. That said, trying to rotate players in and out of the squad/team midway through a series was a disaster, not helped by some of the lousy selection through this series.

On the IPL - they're gonna play it, fine. But if England players get rested from international games or even miss international games for the IPL, what is the point in central contracts?

Jimbo · « **Reply #1676 on:** March 08, 2021, 04:17:31 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 08, 2021, 02:27:45 PM

Not if you were representing your country! Not if you were going to wear your country's colors. Its not just a job; its a privilege and a responsibility. Sadly franchise cricket has reduced it to being 'just a job' with no real loyalty. Its like choosing a job where the job description stated 'will only more than 50% travel' and saying I am not comfortable with all the travel involved.

Two points.

1 - "Loyalty" is a very noble sentiment but what loyalty does the ECB show to longstanding players who lose their central contract? Did they turn to Moeen and say "well Mo, you've put in a shift so we'll still pay you part of your Test contract"? No, because in elite sport loyalty only goes so far and only seems to be expected, by fans, to run in one direction. The idea that players shouldn't prioritise their own financial future and wellbeing is ridiculous and isn't asked of people in any other type of job in society.

2 - In normal times your argument about "choosing a job" might hold up but nobody signed up with full knowledge of what Covid would entail. Regardless of how well paid the job might be, how much of a privilege it is, etc... it cannot be right to expect people to put their mental health and family life at risk for a game.

six and out · « **Reply #1677 on:** March 08, 2021, 05:22:21 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on March 08, 2021, 04:17:31 PM

Two points.

1 - "Loyalty" is a very noble sentiment but what loyalty does the ECB show to longstanding players who lose their central contract? Did they turn to Moeen and say "well Mo, you've put in a shift so we'll still pay you part of your Test contract"? No, because in elite sport loyalty only goes so far and only seems to be expected, by fans, to run in one direction. The idea that players shouldn't prioritise their own financial future and wellbeing is ridiculous and isn't asked of people in any other type of job in society.

2 - In normal times your argument about "choosing a job" might hold up but nobody signed up with full knowledge of what Covid would entail. Regardless of how well paid the job might be, how much of a privilege it is, etc... it cannot be right to expect people to put their mental health and family life at risk for a game.

Family.... Health (mental & physical)..... Cricket..... in that order, it is that simple! No matter what standard you play, whether you are a Clubbie or a Pro!

ppccopener · « **Reply #1678 on:** March 08, 2021, 05:29:32 PM »

For the players that play all 3 formats I cannot see how they could get thru in bubble life without having a break or rotation. It's just not practically possible.
We've already seen a few players request to leave the bubble environment and Eoin Morgan said way back last year it was unsustainable.

Having said that, clearly the upshot of rotation for the India and Sri Lankan tours has ended up with the 3 format players missing some test matches but everyone is available for the one day stuff....

That doesn't quite fit but it's clear where the priorities are currently with the T20 WC being played in India shortly.

As for Moeen, he had a break from the test team at a time he was not playing very well and short on confidence as he said himself...very shortly after that the test contracts were announced and Mo was dropped.
Fair enough you might say but this can be viewed two ways if Moeen was to be part of the tests going forward(after the break).
When asked to stay on and forego his rotation and not having a test contract he said No thanks and that's totally understandable-he spent Sri Lanka in isolation and then played one test.

As @edge mentions thou if I understand his point correctly, if a player has a one day contract and choose to miss and England game for the IPL or the same with a test player it then becomes a more questionable decision...

As far as I have read,England are handling this situation as much in the players gain as is possible, and they have confirmed that just yesterday I think.

billyb · « **Reply #1679 on:** March 08, 2021, 06:00:31 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 08, 2021, 02:27:45 PM

Not if you were representing your country! Not if you were going to wear your country's colors. Its not just a job; its a privilege and a responsibility. Sadly franchise cricket has reduced it to being 'just a job' with no real loyalty. Its like choosing a job where the job description stated 'will only more than 50% travel' and saying I am not comfortable with all the travel involved.

I'm not sure the patriotic world you describe really exists in the pandemic. It is of course an honour to play for your country, but they are not soldiers. They are young men being paid to hit a leather ball with a stick of wood while a pandemic rages around the world. I think we're lucky to have had any cricket at all! I would be mentally shot after a very short period in the bubble, I have no doubt. You cannot penalize players for their mental health.

We're also building up to the T20 World Cup, so they may be more lenient on the IPL this year.

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170231 times)

ProCricketer1982

Re: ENG vs IND series

Jimbo

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mo_town

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Jimbo

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SouthpawMark

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alexhilly1492

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six and out

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billyb

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mo_town

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ProCricketer1982

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edge

Re: ENG vs IND series

Jimbo

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six and out

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ppccopener

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billyb

Re: ENG vs IND series