A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2022, 09:33:47 PM »

I don't see how two bats that weigh 2.8 and pressed exactly the same, just one a low density cleft and another a higher density so smaller edges would have any difference in performance. I feel weight is the key factor and bat speed in how far a ball goes.

They won’t in my opinion and based on experience of making bats albeit over a fairly short period of time. My bat has 28mm edges 2lb 9oz as I used a cleft that was damaged on the back so I had to make the edge smaller but a lad used it (top run scorer in our league for two weeks whilst his was repaired and still sent it as far as his 36mm bat)

Pros back in the days or Ponting, KP, Strauss and cook that used bats in the early 2000s didn’t have 40mm bats as that wasn’t the trend and hit as hard and as far as todays players.

I can’t find any real life experience to back up the belief if it’s bigger it will hit further
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2022, 02:03:49 AM »

"Nowadays, bats are big but they are light. And what we're up against is the belief that a big bat is more powerful than a bat of the same weight that's smaller, which it isn't. That's against the laws of physics"

Chris King, bat-maker at Gray-Nicolls



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edge

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2022, 06:29:20 AM »

Chris King, great batmaker that he is, is also on record saying that concaving in the back of a bat works like an arched bridge. Batmakers talking about 'physics' doesn't tend to give great results.

I don't see how two bats that weigh 2.8 and pressed exactly the same, just one a low density cleft and another a higher density so smaller edges would have any difference in performance. I feel weight is the key factor and bat speed in how far a ball goes.
Grab a ruler, lay it flat over the edge of a table and try and bend it. Pretty easy right? Now turn it on its' edge and try bend it - much harder. In the same way a bigger bat is stiffer and will therefore transfer energy into the ball better. The effect will be small enough to be secondary to all the other factors that make a bat perform well though, including the batsman.

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Neon Cricket

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2022, 07:02:29 AM »

The effect will be small enough to be secondary to all the other factors that make a bat perform well though, including the batsman.

That's the big one isn't it, specs discussion aside, you can have the best bat in the world and it still be useless in the right hands :D

Specs wise, I'm a firm believer that the pressing is the overwhelming factor in how good a bat ends up being. Performance wise, with a mallet, I'm consistently seeing very little change from the lowest grades up to the highest, and certainly not enough of a difference that it would make any noticeable impact for us amateurs on a Saturday. I've had 400/500 odd bats come through the unit this year and out of them the bat I chose for myself is a G3, and the bats a few of the Warwickshire boys have had their hands on have all been G2/G3.

Press it properly and the specs are largely irrelevant, especially at a club level.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2022, 08:01:45 AM »

Chris King, great batmaker that he is, is also on record saying that concaving in the back of a bat works like an arched bridge.

Maybe it does? If so, it would be because of the distribution of weight, not size.
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Bungle

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2022, 01:09:07 PM »

It is staggering how most people don’t seem to care about width. Big edges if the bat is narrow are meaningless. For any given weight (which should be the most important spec), I would prioritize width, then spine height, and then edges.

Because from the average user they would never notice, whereas it's very noticeable with a difference in edge size.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2022, 02:41:30 PM »

It would be a big call for a CBFer to suggest the laws of physics don't exist!  It could be that low density willow does ping better; but the reason why would still be physics.
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InternalTraining

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2022, 08:19:09 PM »

As its pretty quiet on here at present, i thought I'd try to start a topic to hopefully get people engaged in discussion.

So, as the title suggests what are your thoughts on specs? Are they important? If so which ones? If so why? Are they a negative? Etc etc.

Interested as a batmaker to get people's thoughts, as it seems a lot of people now chase specs over anything else. So thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss....

You have to be more specific. What do you mean by "specs"? A 3 lb bat in the hands of a person who can barely swing around a 2-6 bat would be silly.
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jonny77

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2022, 09:01:58 PM »

Sorry, thought it was pretty obvious. I meant when people talk specs as in shoulder size, edge size, spine height, toe size etc etc. A fairly modern trend, weights have always been around and discussed obviously
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InternalTraining

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2022, 11:43:51 PM »

^ Ok.

As its pretty quiet on here at present, i thought I'd try to start a topic to hopefully get people engaged in discussion.

So, as the title suggests what are your thoughts on specs? Are they important? If so which ones? If so why? Are they a negative? Etc etc.

Interested as a batmaker to get people's thoughts, as it seems a lot of people now chase specs over anything else. So thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss....

They are important if they are pertinent to the batsman. If you played a lot on bouncy pitches and faced lots of short deliveries, thick edges might seems like a good idea. On slow tracks, where yorkers are the name of the game, thicker toe? It is part psychology and part suitability (of the "specs") to someone's style of play.

My go-to match bat fell into my lap by chance. It was not perfect but had a ton of ping from the get-go. I used tricks with multiple grips to make the handle fit my hands and gripping style. It turned out to have a very funny balance point that suits my style of batting. If @marsbug was to do a shape /node percussion analysis, it would come out similar to a Newbery Blitz even though the shapes are completely different. Prior to this , I experimented with shapes, sizes, and weights without really understanding what worked for me. This is something bat owners (especially young ones) don't understand: it is through trial-and-errror that you find what works for you. A novice bat buyer simply doesn't have the technical understanding nor experience that a bat maker has and most of the time, bat makers can't be bothered to impart their knowledge to an inquisitive and aggressive new customer.

"Specs" (swing weight, node of percussion, etc.)  would matter if they were standardized and explained to the customers. There is no such effort from the manufacturers. People wouldn't buy more than one bat if they knew exactly what worked for them and how to get it. Obfuscation and ignorance keeps customers coming back to buy seconds and thirds hence keeps commerce alive.

Pros rely on skill, strength, and experience to pick a bat shape/style and stick with it; they don't care about "specs" because their bats are tailor made. I suspect bat makers know exactly what they are doing for their pro but don't bother sharing all the technical details. No fuss, no muss. If a pro started talking about how a bat with certain specs elevated his game and his status from zero to hero, I think we'd get the bat buyers behind "specs". Until then, that knowledge would stay firmly with master bat makers like Laver et-al. Poor clubbies really don't stand a chance in these situations but they also don't need a finely tuned race car like an F1 driver.

My suggestion: trial-and-error. Keep borrowing friends' and acquaintances' bats until you find a shape and weight that is absolutely magical for you.  :D

My 2 cents. ;)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 11:48:00 PM by InternalTraining »
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InternalTraining

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2022, 11:56:45 PM »

I've had 400/500 odd bats come through the unit this year and out of them the bat I chose for myself is a G3, and the bats a few of the Warwickshire boys have had their hands on have all been G2/G3.

Simply because of ping alone or other factors? How are you gauging the quality of "pressing" in a brand new bat? Also, in my experience bouncing a ball on a horizontal bat in a shed/shop/bedroom doesn't translate into nets/match/play ping or performance - your physiology or swing might alter the location (on bat face) where you hit the ball versus bouncing on horizontal bat face.
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jonny77

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2022, 07:41:12 AM »

^ Ok.

They are important if they are pertinent to the batsman. If you played a lot on bouncy pitches and faced lots of short deliveries, thick edges might seems like a good idea. On slow tracks, where yorkers are the name of the game, thicker toe? It is part psychology and part suitability (of the "specs") to someone's style of play.

My go-to match bat fell into my lap by chance. It was not perfect but had a ton of ping from the get-go. I used tricks with multiple grips to make the handle fit my hands and gripping style. It turned out to have a very funny balance point that suits my style of batting. If @marsbug was to do a shape /node percussion analysis, it would come out similar to a Newbery Blitz even though the shapes are completely different. Prior to this , I experimented with shapes, sizes, and weights without really understanding what worked for me. This is something bat owners (especially young ones) don't understand: it is through trial-and-errror that you find what works for you. A novice bat buyer simply doesn't have the technical understanding nor experience that a bat maker has and most of the time, bat makers can't be bothered to impart their knowledge to an inquisitive and aggressive new customer.

"Specs" (swing weight, node of percussion, etc.)  would matter if they were standardized and explained to the customers. There is no such effort from the manufacturers. People wouldn't buy more than one bat if they knew exactly what worked for them and how to get it. Obfuscation and ignorance keeps customers coming back to buy seconds and thirds hence keeps commerce alive.

Pros rely on skill, strength, and experience to pick a bat shape/style and stick with it; they don't care about "specs" because their bats are tailor made. I suspect bat makers know exactly what they are doing for their pro but don't bother sharing all the technical details. No fuss, no muss. If a pro started talking about how a bat with certain specs elevated his game and his status from zero to hero, I think we'd get the bat buyers behind "specs". Until then, that knowledge would stay firmly with master bat makers like Laver et-al. Poor clubbies really don't stand a chance in these situations but they also don't need a finely tuned race car like an F1 driver.

My suggestion: trial-and-error. Keep borrowing friends' and acquaintances' bats until you find a shape and weight that is absolutely magical for you.  :D

My 2 cents. ;)

My initial post was more intended as 'does a 40mm edge matter over a 35mm edge etc'. This is what i think most people would think of when someone asks 'What are the specs', rather than node of percussion or weight.

I was trying to ascertain if people felt it was important in terms of performance, longevity etc and why we'd seemingly become obsessed with edge size, spine height etc. I get it may give confidence or a more aggressive mindset, but benefits in actual performance?

You mentioned a thick toe may help when digging out yorkers, but does it actually? Did Yorkers not exist back in the days before thick toes? Or did we just accept toes blowed out if you hit a Yorker?  Similarly, did batters struggle on hard bouncy pitches before big edges?
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2022, 02:45:33 PM »

Simply because of ping alone or other factors? How are you gauging the quality of "pressing" in a brand new bat? Also, in my experience bouncing a ball on a horizontal bat in a shed/shop/bedroom doesn't translate into nets/match/play ping or performance - your physiology or swing might alter the location (on bat face) where you hit the ball versus bouncing on horizontal bat face.

Probably simply because they were cricket bats that felt good in the hands.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2022, 02:47:51 PM »

My initial post was more intended as 'does a 40mm edge matter over a 35mm edge etc'. This is what i think most people would think of when someone asks 'What are the specs', rather than node of percussion or weight.
 

"What is the node of percussion?" :)
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Purist90

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Re: A topic to polarise opinion.....'Specs' are they all that?
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2022, 05:59:02 PM »

Err, just to add different slant on it for the thread sake. 😬😬 (gulp)
I dont think specs make any difference. In my younger days I creamed it through the covers with my 2lb 6oz, 28mm edge toothpick as easy as I do today with my 35mm edge. The trouble is, if specs mattered, I cannot find 28mm edges and 2lb.3 - 2lb.6 bats anymore? But yet ‘bat speed’ matters more to many than ever before? So I dont really understand the modern bat logic. And why best performing butterfly bats are a fraction of the price of grade 1 but probably perform consistently better. In most sports the lighter and stronger the equipment the more expensive it gets but cricket doesn’t follow this trend much. Technically with all the bat technology around now you would think the 90s edges were kept as that was rocketing enough but the bat weight would be 1lb.8 or something ridiculously light by now for speed and manoeuvrability like a tennis racket. As not so cricket type cricket shots are evolving all the time. Reverse, backwards, upside down, ramp, flick, stand on your head, type shots!
I guess you guys aren’t ready for that just yet, but your kids are going to love it! 😂🤣
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