Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
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jonny77

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2022, 01:06:34 PM »

That depends on the bat/batmaker, but also on how it's prepped, used etc. Lots of variables.
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Ayrtek Cricket

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2022, 01:12:55 PM »

Do you tend to find though bats last well past 1000 runs … majority I guess struggle to score that much in 3 seasons

How many runs do your bats last .. I would expect mine to be at least 2000 that may involve some issues with cracks refurbs ..

Why 2000?

Too many variables to say how long a bat will last, do you use it in nets? how many runs do you score in nets, how many balls are faced etc.

I've had my current match bat 4 seasons now which prob says more about my volume of runs than anything else! Lad at our club I sold a bat to didnt really knock it in and still scored 143* 2 weeks after giving it to him. He hits the ball as hard as any Pro I played against last year, after that the bat has some damage to the edge etc but he still scored 800 runs with it in the season and its still fine for next season.

I've been in the industry 18 years now (15 years today as it happens with Ayrtek) and things have changed in terms of life expectancy on products As mentioned earlier were in the throw-away era now where if your TV/Laptop/Fridge breaks you go and buy a new one rather than taking it to be repaired. There's bats at my club in the locker dating back to the 90's (GN millenniumm) that are still in one piece but pressed rock hard rather than to extract max performance I suspect.
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Kulli

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2022, 01:28:45 PM »

Do you think that's based on them performing better factually, anecdotally, them inspiring onfidence in you or as you say, more down to conditioning?
Option e) a combination of the above.

I’ve tended to try and pick up my big bats from makers or companies that I don’t believe cut (too many) corners, in the hope that they are ‘special’.

Even though we all know my money would be better spend on coaching, if we just look at runs as the only output.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 02:34:00 PM by Kulli »
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jonny77

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2022, 02:19:34 PM »

Option e) a combination of the above.

I’ve tended to try and pick up my big bats from makers or companies that I don’t believe cut (too many) corners, in the hope that they are ‘special’.

Even those we all know my money would be better spend on coaching, if we just look at runs as the only output.

😂 Think that's the case for most of us mate!
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alba caerulea

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2022, 03:32:50 PM »

The rise of t20 cricket (and now t10!) must surely play a role in demand for huge bats over the last 20 years. Certainly in the professional game - which is then watched by how many million viewers/buyers who want what the pros have.
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jonny77

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2022, 04:31:30 PM »

The rise of t20 cricket (and now t10!) must surely play a role in demand for huge bats over the last 20 years. Certainly in the professional game - which is then watched by how many million viewers/buyers who want what the pros have.

Without starting an age old debate again, we're assuming bigger is better? 

Plus this was my original point. It's not possible to always have what the pro's have. Or at least not as often without compromising the quality and longevity of the product. The very nature of willow dictates that its impossible for all clefts to make gauge busters. Unless they're secondary/over dried, narrowed etc etc to save eventual scale weight.

The issue here is that many want light/low density willow, so premiums are charged as demand outstrips supply. However, every bat which fills the gauge is then seen as low density, whether it's narrow, dried, ultra skinny handles etc. So people are charging more for them. You've got to question if people are being fleeced, if it's sustainable and if it's actually right in lots of ways imo.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2022, 04:46:23 PM »

Do you tend to find though bats last well past 1000 runs … majority I guess struggle to score that much in 3 seasons

How many runs do your bats last .. I would expect mine to be at least 2000 that may involve some issues with cracks refurbs ..

My main bat is going into its 6th season and has just over 4000 runs plus nets. Well looked after and cates for means a lot. Iv seen players launch £500+ bats across changing rooms and into kit bags just makes me cringe
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Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2022, 04:53:55 PM »

I’m not particularly into big bats

I do like a certain weight, and more often than not it suits.

I get the whole pick up thing but I don’t get on with bats generally at 2.11 which pick up 2.9

I’m not even fussy about grains , a 37mm edge and 61 circa spine grade 3 isn’t asking for much and wanting it to ping
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Dazz

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2022, 04:55:13 PM »

Just out of interest, what are the specs of the match bats used by the batmakers on here?

I’d bet that there’s not many people out there that could accurately guess the dead weight of 60 out of 100 bats.
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Jaffa

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2022, 05:32:37 PM »

I'm not sure about trends, but I'm always interested in where bat shapes are going in the future. I realise that the gauge has limited what can be done to a certain extent, but I think that there are still probably a few different avenues that could be tried out. Of course, whether people would buy them is another matter! I've linked to it before I think, but in this Masters thesis there are a few different examples shown (with loads more calculated but not shown) of shapes designed by artifical intelligence:

https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675

Here are a few grabs of the sort of thing I mean.






Many of these shapes would take longer than usual to make by hand, but would be quick for a CNC. Most of us can probably imagine how bad some of these shapes might actually feel to use, which is where I would love a master bat maker to take some of these ideas, and make them actually good to use.

I also have other ideas for a VERY different bat, that meets all the laws, but would need a CNC guru to make it work. It would be pretty ugly to look at too, and so would need some pretty special marketing to make people want to buy it.

I don't want to dereail the thread, but one thing that I worry about is the impact of climate change. There are obviously more important things, but if we consider just the effect on cricket bat willow, in the short term I guess that all those lovely narrow grained bats will disappear, as growing seasons lengthen and the grains get wider. Will this also have an effect on density, or will it still vary tree to tree? In the longer term, will there be a change in the growing locations for the willow, and the overall sustainability of this wood?

Interesting profiles. I've owned a L&W Ultra which is similar to the profiles in many ways. I really like it.

Now I have a B3 Beluga too which I'd say is totally different concerning the amount of wood between the sweet spot and splice. I like that too.

Didn't Paul Aldred say something about profiles not being that important when it comes to performance. Where different profiles are about the pickup you want.

And the best profile I've picked up in a while was at B3 and their Players 3500 profile. I believe it's similar to the Finch but with more meat in the shoulders and toe. 
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alba caerulea

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2022, 06:41:43 PM »

Without starting an age old debate again, we're assuming bigger is better? 

Plus this was my original point. It's not possible to always have what the pro's have. Or at least not as often without compromising the quality and longevity of the product. The very nature of willow dictates that its impossible for all clefts to make gauge busters. Unless they're secondary/over dried, narrowed etc etc to save eventual scale weight.

The issue here is that many want light/low density willow, so premiums are charged as demand outstrips supply. However, every bat which fills the gauge is then seen as low density, whether it's narrow, dried, ultra skinny handles etc. So people are charging more for them. You've got to question if people are being fleeced, if it's sustainable and if it's actually right in lots of ways imo.

Judging on various brands, mostly Indian, marketing rhetoric I think its safe to assume that large swathes of the global market believe bigger is better yes.

Whether it is or not in terms of performance is one for the scientists. Its certainly of little interest to me if other factors are compromised.

I think its also safe to assume that most of this global audience has no clue about overdried willow, harrow widths etc. And much less interest in longevity than previous generations where in some cases a bat would last a decade or more.

Its certainly not sustainable but not sure what can really be done. I guess its all driven by demand of a much bigger portion of the market than CBF.

I suppose if Wrights really wanted to they could have an impact against this trend but its not really in their interests is it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 06:45:46 PM by alba caerulea »
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InternalTraining

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2022, 10:42:49 PM »

I'm not sure about trends, but I'm always interested in where bat shapes are going in the future. I realise that the gauge has limited what can be done to a certain extent, but I think that there are still probably a few different avenues that could be tried out. Of course, whether people would buy them is another matter! I've linked to it before I think, but in this Masters thesis there are a few different examples shown (with loads more calculated but not shown) of shapes designed by artifical intelligence:

https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675

Here are a few grabs of the sort of thing I mean.






Many of these shapes would take longer than usual to make by hand, but would be quick for a CNC. Most of us can probably imagine how bad some of these shapes might actually feel to use, which is where I would love a master bat maker to take some of these ideas, and make them actually good to use.

I also have other ideas for a VERY different bat, that meets all the laws, but would need a CNC guru to make it work. It would be pretty ugly to look at too, and so would need some pretty special marketing to make people want to buy it.

I don't want to dereail the thread, but one thing that I worry about is the impact of climate change. There are obviously more important things, but if we consider just the effect on cricket bat willow, in the short term I guess that all those lovely narrow grained bats will disappear, as growing seasons lengthen and the grains get wider. Will this also have an effect on density, or will it still vary tree to tree? In the longer term, will there be a change in the growing locations for the willow, and the overall sustainability of this wood?

These "GA optimized" and "Hybrid optimized" shapes were made by Laver. I am not sure if they still make them.

What does "fixed support" mean in the green colored bat?
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Kulli

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2022, 05:13:04 AM »

I think you need to look a bit closer at the designs…
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Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2022, 10:22:23 AM »

Where’s it all going ? Higher prices just seen wcw released a new bat a 675 quid …

Jeez prices are insane
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Bungle

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2022, 10:50:52 AM »

Where’s it all going ? Higher prices just seen wcw released a new bat a 675 quid …

Jeez prices are insane

It's going towards: "I have to stop playing cricket because I can't afford it."
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