Topic: B3 cricket bat prices (Read 12305 times)

jonny77 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 04, 2023, 07:59:41 AM »

Quote from: Kulli on April 04, 2023, 06:00:44 AM

Been thinking all night and haven�t added to the list, anyone in particular you had in mind?

Nope, nobody in particular 😆 But for a custom bat, handmade in the UK with a quality handle, balance, performance and lovely stickers. I'd expect to pay....

G1+ �449.99
G1 �349.99
G2 �279.99
G3 �219.99

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:09:21 AM »

Quote from: Neon Cricket on April 04, 2023, 07:15:34 AM

I don't hide the fact all the Neon bats are imported, but what Tom is saying it right - I've had a ~25% increase across all grades in the past year. I've been able to soak up the majority of the increase just through the volume of sales I'm doing now, but it's inevitable that prices are going to keep increasing. At the end of the day inflation has been sat at 10% for a while now, that affects everything so cricket is just as vulnerable to price increases (whether we like it or not!!).

And yes, comparing brands that are VAT registered vs non-VAT registered is impossible. Every bat I sell, even after reclaiming every penny of VAT I can, still sees probably ~10% of the sale price go to the tax man.

Side note, I'd be intrigued to know what people expect to pay for the following grades nowadays?

- G1+
- G1
- G2
- G3
- G4

Answers below (don't bite my head off about G1+ please )

Without meaning to be argumentative but what is G1+. Willow is graded on appearance at its initial stage and in grades 1 through to 4 in the main with some using really low velum grade as G5 or even G6 but G1+ is just a way to charge more for the pretty looking willow isn�t it if we are honest.

I charge �309 for a Grade 1, �259 for G2 and �199 for G3 but as iv said and others have eluded to my business isn�t my main source of income and if it was those prices are not sustainable if I ever went towards selling via retailers as the mark up for the retailer isn�t there but that�s a great way to support volume of sales. If you look at it B3 charging �320 for a G3 given the volume of overheads they have in comparison to for example myself with a workshop at home isn�t a comparable when they also have staff that rely on them for there income. On the flip side there are companies that doesn�t make there bats that have G1 prices at the �450-�500 mark and these have some or no real business overheads. The fact is every company is in it to make money but the choice sits with the consumer if you think it�s a fair price or not. The fact is stickers and marketing BS sell well outside the forum as this is a very unique element of the market but an incredibly small almost non existent element compared to the overall market.
In summary yea �320 is a lot for a G3 in comparison to GN signature for example but what�s the sales volume of GM vs B3?? �320 is a lot vs �199 for mine but what�s the cost per bat for B3 vs cost per bat for myself?? There are too many variables to make a firm argument either way. What I do know and strongly believe is there is no G1+ grade and charging an extra �100 because that G1 cleft is pretty is no different to the argument of G3 at �320 being overpriced or wrong.

Kulli · « **Reply #32 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:11:44 AM »

Total sidetrack, but why is it grade 1+, sure 1 plus makes it nearer to 2. I'm going to start a campaign for G1-, maybe even Grade 0!

Re pricing:

Top of the range/G1+/Pro grade/player edition etc - here i think brands are pretty much free to charge whatever the market will tolerate, you're most likely selling the vert best you have to those with the cash to pay for it-
G1 - 350-450
G2 - 250-350
G3 - 200-250

That would be sort of what I'd expect to see or think was acceptable. How manageable that is with costs I have no idea.

jonny77 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:31:15 AM »

I get what you're saying @SOULMAN1012, but the demand/supply drives this. If you don't get willow you can sell as G1+ then you'll never sell it, but those odd few clefts you do get are now fetching that premium and the market will pay it. It's not about about cashing in, it's what the market dictates
As a small brand to get those clefts I found I had to invest in more willow (and equipment to process that willow), which is investment and risk. Unless you find a batmaker who can supply 5 part mades at a time and is happy to give up his very best willow that is. I didn't. So that investment is factored into your pricing on those clefts. it has to be.

For me, those G1+ clefts have to be as near as perfect though and I try to be generous/fair with my grading, so feel I offer good value. I actually advise people to buy on budget, rather than get drawn into the grains/looks. There are still more budget friendly options. Also, I've seen many G1s which I'd class as G2's and G1+ or 'Pro' willow which I'd class as G1, or in some cases even G2. It's all relative.

I think we've all put our prices up, as raw materials and other costs have gone up. It's unfortunately inevitable in the current climate. Mine have risen 10% this year, they were pretty stable before that for a while.

Alvaro · « **Reply #34 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:37:43 AM »

The question I wonder about is, once inflation // other costs go down (and it should) will prices go down to reflect this....?

Kulli · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:44:30 AM »

Quote from: Alvaro on April 04, 2023, 08:37:43 AM

The question I wonder about is, once inflation // other costs go down (and it should) will prices go down to reflect this....?

Inflation might go down, but that won't mean makers costs drop, just rise less slowly.

Jimbo · « **Reply #36 on:** April 04, 2023, 08:51:21 AM »

Quote from: Kulli on April 04, 2023, 08:44:30 AM

Inflation might go down, but that won't mean makers costs drop, just rise less slowly.

Just about to say the same, I wouldn't expect prices to drop off.

FWIW, I think I'd be happy paying very different prices for a fully bespoke bat, semi bespoke (can choose weight, from a range of profiles, handle shape, etc) and totally off the shelf.

As I buy largely bespoke/semi-bespoke:

Circa �150 for G4/ugly butterfly
Circa �200 for a clean butterfly/G3
Circa �250 for G2
Circa �340 for G1

If the batmaker is providing toe guard, scuff, edge tape as standard then I'd put another �15/�20 on top as that's about what it'll cost me to do that myself.

SD · « **Reply #37 on:** April 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM »

It will be interesting to see with the spiraling cost of willow and the market in an effective monopoly controlled by a single company how long it is before the big Indian manufacturers experiment with growing in a controlled environment

Neon Cricket · « **Reply #38 on:** April 04, 2023, 09:22:27 AM »

Quote from: Alvaro on April 04, 2023, 08:37:43 AM

The question I wonder about is, once inflation // other costs go down (and it should) will prices go down to reflect this....?

Inflation dropping doesn't mean the raw materials get any cheaper, it just means they won't rise as quickly in price. I'd love to say willow prices will drop but we all know that won't be the case sadly.

procricket · « **Reply #39 on:** April 04, 2023, 09:30:15 AM »

Quote from: SD on April 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM

It will be interesting to see with the spiraling cost of willow and the market in an effective monopoly controlled by a single company how long it is before the big Indian manufacturers experiment with growing in a controlled environment

India doesn�t need to worry about willow they have enough hence the shortage here there buying power is higher.

procricket · « **Reply #40 on:** April 04, 2023, 09:37:16 AM »

One thing b3 can give you though which i guess is prevalent is they can give you a big 2�8 bat they do offer something most bespoke small boutique can�t and like the like can�t due to their supply of willow.

You don�t see too many big bats full from smaller makers because they simply don�t get good enough wood. Johnny makes a very valued point higher up and in truth he sold me a grade 1 plus at G1 price.

SD · « **Reply #41 on:** April 04, 2023, 09:59:45 AM »

Quote from: procricket on April 04, 2023, 09:30:15 AM

India doesn�t need to worry about willow they have enough hence the shortage here there buying power is higher.

They currently have supply but they lack control over the price of that supply and any business that is critically reliant on one supplier is carrying a huge risk factor.

The alternative would be to buy out Wright's which would be even worse news for those parts of the UK bat making industry that don't have their own willow supply

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #42 on:** April 04, 2023, 10:22:44 AM »

Quote from: procricket on April 04, 2023, 09:37:16 AM

One thing b3 can give you though which i guess is prevalent is they can give you a big 2�8 bat they do offer something most bespoke small boutique can�t and like the like can�t due to their supply of willow.

You don�t see too many big bats full from smaller makers because they simply don�t get good enough wood. Johnny makes a very valued point higher up and in truth he sold me a grade 1 plus at G1 price.

But again what is a G1++

The talk is supply and demand creates this. Well this has been created by companies, advertising a grade that in reality doesn�t exist. This is a by product of pushing the price up on something because it looks better, there is no way that anyone can say that they play better etc either. Now if it�s due to being less available and by that being rare to get that class of willow I can see why but doesn�t mean it�s right to me. No different to LE models. Limited to what exactly??

Now the point about smaller makers and companies willow supply is valid and it takes a while to build relationships etc but again from where my willow comes from i but it in Grades 1, 2 and 3 not G1+, 1,2,3 and now that my relationship is established I get some very nice willow and some nice willow but I personally don�t see why I should charge more for the ones with nicer grains is I guess all I�m saying.

What I do know is that the marketing BS has worked over the years as to often people come to me and say I need top grade as I want top performance. What a load of BS but from a marketing and business point I guess it�s worked.

jonny77 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 04, 2023, 10:38:01 AM »

I'm not sure anyone is saying it performs better. Some people demand multi grained, lightweight stunners. Due to the nature of how willow is grown and processed now, we're told these are rarer to come by. So, this creates that new grade really. It's a bit of both, customer driven and then brand/supply driven to meet demand. If people didn't want them, or demand them, it wouldn't exist and those people will generally be happy to pay more to get what they want. Fair play to you mate if you don't follow that model, but there's more to it imo than your making out here from a business perspective.

On the flip side. Do batmakers get to claim back for storm damaged clefts, clefts where bark excursion, big knots aren't apparent? No, they take the hit. In the grand scheme of things I've seen happen in the industry, creating a top tier of willow for potentially the 1 to 2% of willow you get isn't a crime imo.

Things change. If and when things become harder to get a hold of, then they become more exclusive and they're expensive. If you sold a 20 grain perfect looking cleft as a G1, how would the next customer react when you sold them a 7 Grainger with a bit of spec as a G1 and charged the same? It's probably why GM have about 14 grades essentially, as 3 or 4 probably don't really cover it anymore.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 04, 2023, 10:56:09 AM »

Quote from: jonny77 on April 04, 2023, 10:38:01 AM

I'm not sure anyone is saying it performs better. Some people demand multi grained, lightweight stunners. Due to the nature of how willow is grown and processed now, we're told these are rarer to come by. So, this creates that new grade really. It's a bit of both, customer driven and then brand/supply driven to meet demand. If people didn't want them, or demand them, it wouldn't exist and those people will generally be happy to pay more to get what they want. Fair play to you mate if you don't follow that model, but there's more to it imo than your making out here from a business perspective.

On the flip side. Do batmakers get to claim back for storm damaged clefts, clefts where bark excursion, big knots aren't apparent? No, they take the hit. In the grand scheme of things I've seen happen in the industry, creating a top tier of willow for potentially the 1 to 2% of willow you get isn't a crime imo.

Things change. If and when things become harder to get a hold of, then they become more exclusive and they're expensive. If you sold a 20 grain perfect looking cleft as a G1, how would the next customer react when you sold them a 7 Grainger with a bit of spec as a G1 and charged the same? It's probably why GM have about 14 grades essentially, as 3 or 4 probably don't really cover it anymore.

I do get what you�re saying @jonny77 and respect each point made. However all I�m saying is because you get a 13 dead straight G1 and next to it a more available 7-8 grain clean piece of willow both are G1 it�s no different to a G2 or G3 in that regard you get some nicer than others.

Your point about storm damaged etc is a very valid point but again you can factor that into generic pricing for losses etc.

Look it�s all subjective and my point and views are possible different to many due to as iv said this isn�t my main income and iv never set out to make it so. Iv also nit gone down a route that has meant that iv had to outlay as much cost as yourself for example. I have more understanding for those that have these costs than companies that have no costs really but use the marketing BS to inflate prices.

Finally your point earlier about what�s sold as �Pro� G1+ etc is just rubbish in most cases

Author Topic: B3 cricket bat prices (Read 12305 times)

jonny77

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SOULMAN1012

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Kulli

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jonny77

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Alvaro

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Kulli

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Jimbo

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SD

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Neon Cricket

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procricket

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procricket

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SD

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SOULMAN1012

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jonny77

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SOULMAN1012

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