Topic: B3 cricket bat prices (Read 12308 times)

ppccopener · « **Reply #75 on:** April 05, 2023, 02:23:26 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on April 05, 2023, 01:25:33 PM

That's good, isn't it? This board was set up to support independent batmakers.

Yes�.in my opinion. For the sake of balance the more traditional brands and business models offer something different so they won�t clash in my view.

But if the gap for the small batmakers and non batmaking retailers increases great.

If it works out like that of course

SD · « **Reply #76 on:** April 05, 2023, 04:43:38 PM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on April 05, 2023, 11:57:47 AM

Overheads and other running costs sound like a problem for the businesses to solve rather than for the consumer to deal with.

I dont care if my bat is made in a million pound factory or a spare boxroom - it is judged on the factors below.

- prices
- quality of product
- customer service

Ive been using smaller companies for quite some time now and actually find not only the price cheaper for equivalent product but product quality better. Customer service seems to vary but certainly more likely to get any sort of personal service from a smaller maker aswell. These are the only 3 factors I consider when bat shopping

Really for anyone in the know its a no brainer to use a smaller company/maker.

The above doesn't necessarily apply to collectors more to users of bats

My recent post with 2 buys from smaller brands (assuming h4l are still small?) for under the price of a G3 from B3 shows that there is plenty of value to be had

VAT is obviously relevant but all things considered, the economies of scale from running a bigger operation should outwigh increased overheads. My assumption would be that GM have the highest running costs of any UK operation but also offer some of the best value

To be out pricing the market by such a degree would either indicate a poorly run business or a bigger profit margin than the competition

Chad · « **Reply #77 on:** April 05, 2023, 05:07:15 PM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on April 04, 2023, 09:27:25 PM

If willow (wood) is so expensive, then why use it ?

At the lower levels, also at the non-pro club levels, it should be perfectly legal to use bats made from synthetic/non-wood materials. Most players will not play at the pro/international level. Why let cost-prohibitive equipment restrict fans from enjoying a good weekend game when all these weekend warriors want is some cricketing fun. Non-wood/synthetic bats would be cheaper, durable, and require no maintenance like oiling/sanding etc.

I just don't see how grass roots level cricket survives if prices keep rising. Granted inflation is rampant and pretty much everywhere, people/kids will switch to more cost-effective means of sporting activities or at least those with more fun/entertainment for their money. Let's face it, not everyone has a good cricket day in the field every weekend.

Also, this nonsense with "English" willow being better than any other willow serves only one company. We all know who they are and how they monopolize the cricket bat market. Either get more willow suppliers (bring costs down) or look for alternative materials.

I haven't bought bats in a few years but I am glad I stocked up when I did.

A problem with synthetic bats would probably be how they affect the ball, and also sustainability. There have been attempts to use materials other than wood, and was outright banned due to the effect it had on the ball. (Lillee's infamous aluminium bat)

There are alternative woods which do make a product, albeit normally with a tradeoff in a certain property. (Serbian can be too brittle, Kashmir/Aussie can be too dense - funnily enough all of which are of the same genus of tree) With the number of people playing, the kinds of weights people are using and shapes that are demanded, it needs to be a softwood that reaches maturity in a relatively short timeframe (Can be grown, cut and dried in a sensible timeframe and can be manipulated easily) that is low density (So it's light enough to use) but strong (Can withstand impact). I really don't like it that one company has this much influence over the cost of cricket bats, but I also wouldn't call it nonsense without some hard facts/examples of better alternatives.

I'm not a fan of the bat prices hiking up this much, �330 is a lot for an entry offering. I understand that cost of living has gone up significantly, alongside the cost of willow, and if B3 feel as a business that these are the prices that they need to sell bats at to pay their employees, cover their costs and to grow their business, then that's up to the consumer to decide whether or not to support. The consumer doesn't have to buy from them. I have visited, and know for a fact that their process is excellent, and the product is of a very high quality. A problem this does present however is potentially more demand for cheaper bats, or at least G1 bats at a lower price than these reputable manufacturers can provide at, and thus potentially more low quality imported bats and sticker brands.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #78 on:** April 05, 2023, 06:00:35 PM »

B3 started out saying all grades of willow performed the same.

The Cricket Boutique · « **Reply #79 on:** April 05, 2023, 06:28:08 PM »

I think that still remains the case, the fact is the lower grades of willow may be heavier so will make a smaller bat in terms of edge size for the required weight or a heavy bat in terms of average edge/spine height.

Any decent batmaker will still ensure even the lower grade clefts are pressed to optimal performance levels. Having take the opportunity to make the 7 hours round trip to B3 to check out their set-up prior to stocking them im confident that they have a set-up thats probably only second the GM in terms of the equipment, size and processes they run. The B3 bats I have in stock are very well made and feel very solid in terms of the product itself with chunky shoulders, toe and middles and a very thick handle, they are aiming at the higher end of the market but no different to the M&H, WCW or even some Indian brands now that are looking at �300 for a G3, �400-�450 for a G2 and �600-700 for a G1.

As previously mentioned B3 get their willow from JS Wrights so will have to factor in the prices of clefts, handles, stickers, etc before they get don to the nitty gritty of what it costs them to actually make it into a bat, have staff present to deal with customers and process orders.

The vast majority of bat makers are one man bands so don't have people on the payroll that add to costs each month, they can therefore lower their costs on the products due to this.

MichaelM · « **Reply #80 on:** April 05, 2023, 06:48:49 PM »

Quote from: The Cricket Boutique on April 05, 2023, 06:28:08 PM

I think that still remains the case, the fact is the lower grades of willow may be heavier so will make a smaller bat in terms of edge size for the required weight or a heavy bat in terms of average edge/spine height.

Any decent batmaker will still ensure even the lower grade clefts are pressed to optimal performance levels. Having take the opportunity to make the 7 hours round trip to B3 to check out their set-up prior to stocking them im confident that they have a set-up thats probably only second the GM in terms of the equipment, size and processes they run. The B3 bats I have in stock are very well made and feel very solid in terms of the product itself with chunky shoulders, toe and middles and a very thick handle, they are aiming at the higher end of the market but no different to the M&H, WCW or even some Indian brands now that are looking at �300 for a G3, �400-�450 for a G2 and �600-700 for a G1.

As previously mentioned B3 get their willow from JS Wrights so will have to factor in the prices of clefts, handles, stickers, etc before they get don to the nitty gritty of what it costs them to actually make it into a bat, have staff present to deal with customers and process orders.

The vast majority of bat makers are one man bands so don't have people on the payroll that add to costs each month, they can therefore lower their costs on the products due to this.

Once again, well said and I agree with you.

alba caerulea · « **Reply #81 on:** April 05, 2023, 07:08:10 PM »

Quote from: The Cricket Boutique on April 05, 2023, 06:28:08 PM

I think that still remains the case, the fact is the lower grades of willow may be heavier so will make a smaller bat in terms of edge size for the required weight or a heavy bat in terms of average edge/spine height.

Any decent batmaker will still ensure even the lower grade clefts are pressed to optimal performance levels. Having take the opportunity to make the 7 hours round trip to B3 to check out their set-up prior to stocking them im confident that they have a set-up thats probably only second the GM in terms of the equipment, size and processes they run. The B3 bats I have in stock are very well made and feel very solid in terms of the product itself with chunky shoulders, toe and middles and a very thick handle, they are aiming at the higher end of the market but no different to the M&H, WCW or even some Indian brands now that are looking at �300 for a G3, �400-�450 for a G2 and �600-700 for a G1.

As previously mentioned B3 get their willow from JS Wrights so will have to factor in the prices of clefts, handles, stickers, etc before they get don to the nitty gritty of what it costs them to actually make it into a bat, have staff present to deal with customers and process orders.

The vast majority of bat makers are one man bands so don't have people on the payroll that add to costs each month, they can therefore lower their costs on the products due to this.

Your points are obviously true but once again - are these consumer problems?

How many people does it take to make a bat? I only order one at a time so what interest is it of mine if B3 have 10 people on the payroll?

Im not picking on B3 here, you can apply to any of the large brands.

I hope this latest price trend is a boost for smaller makers, the value certainly lies in them and with the odd exception of the bats Ive had so does the quality advantage.

The last 'big' brand bat I purchased from the UK was a GM Diamond 808 for �250ish. Compared to what Ive got for similar prices or less since from smaller names it was quite frankly rubbish. Never again.

I think its fair to point out that we are very lucky on here to have contact to smaller brands/makers, special offers etc. And also the knowledge, for better or worse, that this forum provides.

For the vast majority who play cricket they either have the choice of the few mainstream brands that are in the Morrant catalogue or possibly a local maker with a bit of a following.

geeders · « **Reply #82 on:** April 05, 2023, 07:17:47 PM »

I think the majority of players I know wouldn't consider paying much upwards of �200 on a bat, so find it odd that so many manufacturers don't offer this as a start point?

I noticed on the Kippax website, the cheapest bat they offer now is �295 (no grade listed) and they have their own willow, so aren't as governed by JS Wright.

When I first started playing, all our club kit bats were Kippax so can only assume they haven't always been this way. I know a few of our players that have used Kippax before, but won't now because of the start point

The Cricket Boutique · « **Reply #83 on:** April 05, 2023, 08:03:30 PM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on April 05, 2023, 07:08:10 PM

Your points are obviously true but once again - are these consumer problems?

How many people does it take to make a bat? I only order one at a time so what interest is it of mine if B3 have 10 people on the payroll?

Im not picking on B3 here, you can apply to any of the large brands.

I hope this latest price trend is a boost for smaller makers, the value certainly lies in them and with the odd exception of the bats Ive had so does the quality advantage.

The last 'big' brand bat I purchased from the UK was a GM Diamond 808 for �250ish. Compared to what Ive got for similar prices or less since from smaller names it was quite frankly rubbish. Never again.

I think its fair to point out that we are very lucky on here to have contact to smaller brands/makers, special offers etc. And also the knowledge, for better or worse, that this forum provides.

For the vast majority who play cricket they either have the choice of the few mainstream brands that are in the Morrant catalogue or possibly a local maker with a bit of a following.

As a brand/bat maker you can only make so many bats per day due to the labour and processes involved, B3 have obviously reached a volume where they require staff to carry out the processes to fulfil this volume. They have expanded into the US with stockists too which look like quite large volumes.

It�s a real tough one in the cricket industry as you want to sell as many bats as you can to make more profit, however to scale up requires investment in machinery such as CAD/CAM, copy lathes and more technical stuff to produce the volumes required. Staff are then needed to operate them and this adds to overheads. You then need the willow to make the bats which is in high demand and prices are crazy currently.

Do you cap the volume of bats you make per day/week/month and scale back your labour costs to keep product costs low? Potentially missing out on sales or asking customers to wait for a product by making them in turn?

MichaelM · « **Reply #84 on:** April 05, 2023, 08:22:17 PM »

Quote from: The Cricket Boutique on April 05, 2023, 08:03:30 PM

As a brand/bat maker you can only make so many bats per day due to the labour and processes involved, B3 have obviously reached a volume where they require staff to carry out the processes to fulfil this volume. They have expanded into the US with stockists too which look like quite large volumes.

It�s a real tough one in the cricket industry as you want to sell as many bats as you can to make more profit, however to scale up requires investment in machinery such as CAD/CAM, copy lathes and more technical stuff to produce the volumes required. Staff are then needed to operate them and this adds to overheads. You then need the willow to make the bats which is in high demand and prices are crazy currently.

Do you cap the volume of bats you make per day/week/month and scale back your labour costs to keep product costs low? Potentially missing out on sales or asking customers to wait for a product by making them in turn?

You've got insight into B3, thanks for sharing.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #85 on:** April 05, 2023, 09:47:29 PM »

Quote from: Chad on April 05, 2023, 05:07:15 PM

A problem with synthetic bats would probably be how they affect the ball, and also sustainability. There have been attempts to use materials other than wood, and was outright banned due to the effect it had on the ball. (Lillee's infamous aluminium bat)

There are alternative woods which do make a product, albeit normally with a tradeoff in a certain property. (Serbian can be too brittle, Kashmir/Aussie can be too dense - funnily enough all of which are of the same genus of tree) With the number of people playing, the kinds of weights people are using and shapes that are demanded, it needs to be a softwood that reaches maturity in a relatively short timeframe (Can be grown, cut and dried in a sensible timeframe and can be manipulated easily) that is low density (So it's light enough to use) but strong (Can withstand impact). I really don't like it that one company has this much influence over the cost of cricket bats, but I also wouldn't call it nonsense without some hard facts/examples of better alternatives.

None of these factors are insurmountable today. Lilly and his bat happened 40+ (??) years ago. Aluminum or even polymer bats could be tested against balls made with non-leather material. Bats made from varying density willow might not be an issue if willow was graded on density (thus standardizing some kind of a rebound factor/quotient). Etc. Etc.

We are talking amateur game here where changes to equipment rules will not (ought not) impact the pro game. I only see upside where renewed (and continued) interest in cricket helps pro-game viewership and stadium attendance.

MCC/ICC really needs to consider these options for amateur/non-pro game.

It'd be great if an enterprising bat maker tests out some non-willow/non-traditional material for bats and even balls.

Devondumpling00 · « **Reply #86 on:** April 05, 2023, 10:06:40 PM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on April 05, 2023, 09:47:29 PM

None of these factors are insurmountable today. Lilly and his bat happened 40+ (??) years ago. Aluminum or even polymer bats could be tested against balls made with non-leather material. Bats made from varying density willow might not be an issue if willow was graded on density (thus standardizing some kind of a rebound factor/quotient). Etc. Etc.

We are talking amateur game here where changes to equipment rules will not (ought not) impact the pro game. I only see upside where renewed (and continued) interest in cricket helps pro-game viewership and stadium attendance.

MCC/ICC really needs to consider these options for amateur/non-pro game.

It'd be great if an enterprising bat maker tests out some non-willow/non-traditional material for bats and even balls.

Im sure many on the forum are familiar with this study

https://www.enterprise.cam.ac.uk/bamboo-bats/

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #87 on:** April 05, 2023, 10:22:37 PM »

Quote from: The Cricket Boutique on April 05, 2023, 08:03:30 PM

Do you cap the volume of bats you make per day/week/month and scale back your labour costs to keep product costs low? Potentially missing out on sales or asking customers to wait for a product by making them in turn?

The volume of bats made per day/week etc works for Salix but again this is a totally handcrafted process once the cleft arrives. If I was spending �400 ish I know where I would go over B3 or one of the more established brands and that�s purely because the end product in my opinion is better in all capacity�s including service, as well as the final product.
However you can�t have a one size fits all approach to business and the brands mentioned here like B3, GM, GN, Kippax etc must be doing something right as to remain in business is much harder than starting one.

Chad · « **Reply #88 on:** April 05, 2023, 11:26:14 PM »

Quote from: jonny77 on April 04, 2023, 02:35:27 PM

They're sub bats. Clearly states in the description....

https://garrardcricket.com/products/workshop-stock-collection-2lb9-9oz-2?_pos=1&_sid=39d80c79e&_ss=r

Funnily enough, this seems to be the same bat listed on eBay for �175 with no mention of any defects, which seemingly sold on Garrards site for �100 🤔 I could be wrong, but seems the same one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225473329336?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=AK8rbvdlTia&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=phkDW9d0TMq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Pretty shocking behaviour if that's actually a sub and someone's just gone to flip it like that. Last thing we'd want is for the scalping to happen to bats like it does for tickets to see a popular artist.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #89 on:** April 05, 2023, 11:50:10 PM »

Quote from: Devondumpling00 on April 05, 2023, 10:06:40 PM

Im sure many on the forum are familiar with this study

https://www.enterprise.cam.ac.uk/bamboo-bats/

Wow! Thanks for sharing this. So many positives in this study! It seems like this was discussed in 2021 by ICC/MCC.

Author Topic: B3 cricket bat prices (Read 12308 times)

ppccopener

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SD

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Chad

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Bats_Entertainment

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The Cricket Boutique

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MichaelM

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alba caerulea

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geeders

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The Cricket Boutique

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MichaelM

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InternalTraining

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Devondumpling00

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SOULMAN1012

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Chad

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InternalTraining

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