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[GJ]

I wasnt really sure where to put this but here goes... There seems to be a lot of talk these days with low density clefts, huge edges etc. And companies are advertising this within their descriptions. Take for example the new Millichamp Amplus. Made from huge oversized clefts to meet comsumers needs.

If these low density clefts are rare, what happens when demand for these products become too high and they are unable to meet demand. Do they openly admit they are unable to meet their requirements and will wait until the right one comes in, perhaps losing a customer/sale or will they side track and use other methods. Perhaps using a so called 'standard' cleft or using methods of drying willow further? Not questioning millichamps integrity, just whether its a case with most manufacturers. Afterall we heard the saga with Mike's famous Gray Nicolls oblivion. Purchasing what was described as a 'pro' quality bat, and him getting what was close to the description of a twig. Now maybe the average punter wont realise the difference in overall size of the bat, but us more observant among the forum would pick this up a mile off and i'm sure would kick up a stink.

[100 not out]

The oversized cleft is not low density as such. It's a cleft that has been cut to a larger size than normal. Not sure of the numbers but let's say if from a round you would get x normal sized clefts. From the same round you could also get fewer larger or oversized clefts. Does that make sense.

[procricket]

load of hype the whole thing

another fad like heartwood and grain grains

Pro bats most look like twiggs as you say

Low density just look at most pro bats there hardly massive looking are they

[jonpinson]

An oversize cleft will allow a higher spine height to be achieved. Not necessarily link with low density.

After discussions in the last few days, I'd advise you to not buy into it too much.

[100 not out]

I agree. I'm gonna get myself a classical shaped bat that performs. Whilst I acknowledge the real pucka stuff is sought after. I reckon you should worry more about the pressing than density.

[GJ]

Didnt know oversized clefts were different drom low density willow. Dont think you can say its all 'hype', the more wood behind the bat will increase performance. Surely to achieve a higher than average spine on a bat, it will also require the cleft to be naturally light weight?

Whilst I agree pressing is the most determining factor on the performance of a bat, denisty also contributes. Cant beat a classical shape bat, like the old retro Salix's and Millichamps.

100 Not out, your inbox is full if you would like a reply to your PM...

[jonpinson]

Didnt know oversized clefts were different drom low density willow. Dont think you can say its all 'hype', the more wood behind the bat will increase performance. Surely to achieve a higher than average spine on a bat, it will also require the cleft to be naturally light weight?

Whilst I agree pressing is the most determining factor on the performance of a bat, denisty also contributes. Cant beat a classical shape bat, like the old retro Salix's and Millichamps.

Yes,  but it isn't the be all and end all that some would have us think.

[Washington]

Its simple really there is no trickery involved . . . . take the 2 M&H profiles the Amplus (big edges with the spine being just a little bigger) the Distinction (tiny edges huge spine) its not magic but rather down to the skill of the batmaker shifting weight.

You could ask for both in 2.10lb and there will be the same mass in both.

I am yet to see a bat with 35mm+ edges with 70mm+ spine (apart from laminates).

Its all trends/fashion i.e heartwood, no heartwood, concaving, no concaving

[Kulli]

Its simple really there is no trickery involved . . . . take the 2 M&H profiles the Amplus (big edges with the spine being just a little bigger) the Distinction (tiny edges huge spine) its not magic but rather down to the skill of the batmaker shifting weight.

You could ask for both in 2.10lb and there will be the same mass in both.

I am yet to see a bat with 35mm+ edges with 70mm+ spine (apart from laminates).

Its all trends/fashion i.e heartwood, no heartwood, concaving, no concaving

It's still possible to make two bats in the exact same shape and size and for them to have different weights though.

[Washington]

Is it?

[uknsaunders]

other tricks seem to be to reduce the blade length, slope the shoulders, until recently carbon handles, scoops. I have a CA Gel Laminate and while it weighs 2'7 with nearly 40mm edges, the spine isn't very high and it picks up closer to 2'9/10.

[Kulli]

Yes, willow's a natural product and no two trees (or indeed clefts from the same tree) will have the exact same properties of the wood.

Unless I'm very much mistaken it's possible for two bats with the same volume of wood to have different weights, this would be caused by the wood being having differing densities.

The big question is, if you have more wood but it's of a lower density, does that give increased performance?

[steelcouch]

Yes
more times than not

[will5210]

other tricks seem to be to reduce the blade length, slope the shoulders, until recently carbon handles, scoops. I have a CA Gel Laminate and while it weighs 2'7 with nearly 40mm edges, the spine isn't very high and it picks up closer to 2'9/10.

Or shave the Bat width, as in the Joker.

I'm sure all this was discussed when the Joker first appeared. People assumed they were from lighter or overdried clefts but it was simply careful rearrangement of wood from the length & width to the middle, thus giving you 'meat' where its needed.

I think batmakers weigh & grade every cleft once its been cut to its final size - I'd be interested to know what the max & min weights that typically come with a job lot of willow?

Also, there must be a reason why brands sometime only sell a certain shape in e.g. 2.9 upwards, as there probably isn't enough light willow to get a decent sized result in a lightweight bat.

[tim2000s]

Or shave the Bat width, as in the Joker.

I'm sure all this was discussed when the Joker first appeared. People assumed they were from lighter or overdried clefts but it was simply careful rearrangement of wood from the length & width to the middle, thus giving you 'meat' where its needed.

I thought that the Joker was only length challenged, not width challenged?