Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: 400notout on April 04, 2013, 07:10:53 AM
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Have been reading a few articles recently and would like to know on either side who we reckon is the best XI the aussies can produce for the Ashes. Apologies if this has been done before, finally at the end of the post, put wether you are English/British or Australian, just out of curiosity to see if the English/Aussies really dislike someone!
1. C. Rogers
2. E. Cowan
3. S. Marsh
4. P. Hughes
5. M. Clarke
6. C. Hartley
7. L. Butterworth
8. M. Starc
9. P. Siddle
10. J. Pattinson
11. J. Holland (Is he fit?)
If Holland isn't fit, I'd be taking Steve O'Keefe and moving him in around 7/8?
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Think you're very optimistic with that line up! Off the top of my head, I think you've added 5 players who weren't even in the squad for India and a few that haven't even been awarded a CA contract. Given that it's only 3 months til the first Test and the Australian domestic season is over and all we have now is IPL, I don't see many of your new faces breaking into the squad. Of them Rogers seems the most likely given his form in England over the years, but if he is going to take any openers' spot it would be Cowan rather than Warner.
For what it's worth, I would imagine it will look something like:
1. D Warner
2. E Cowan
3. P Hughes
4. M Clarke
5. S Watson
6. A Voges / C Rogers / S Marsh
7. M Wade
8. M Starc
9. J Pattinson
10. P Siddle
11. N Lyon.
Only real uncertainty is the number 6 spot. And I'm from England, if you hadn't guessed :)
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You can look at this a number of ways given that the Aussie's are abit shallow in the batting department. My line up would be;
1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. Hughes
4. Clarke
5. Bailey (for maturity and stability - ideal Hussey replacement) or Khwaja
6. Watson (geniune allrounders role - wreak havoc batting against the older ball or 2nd new ball similar to Gilchrist)
7. Wade or Haddin (similar value to the team)
8. Starc
9. Pattinson
10. Siddle
11. Lyon
12. Bird ( i rate this guy - the next McGrath )
My bolter will be Rogers as an opener if they get desperate for stability. Would like to also see Marsh in there as another option at No 5.
I'm from the land down under.....
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Henriques has made a good argument to play surely, he offers them so many options. Got decent shield runs as well as runs in India which were very hard to come by.
I'd take a punt on one of Ferguson/Burns/Maddinson At 6 and I also think Watson will open.
Watson
Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Ferguson/Burns/Maddinson/Henriques
Wade/Haddin
Starc
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
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Henriques has made a good argument to play surely, he offers them so many options. Got decent shield runs as well as runs in India which were very hard to come by.
I'd take a punt on one of Ferguson/Burns/Maddinson At 6 and I also think Watson will open.
Watson
Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Ferguson/Burns/Maddinson/Henriques
Wade/Haddin
Starc
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
I like the look of that line up even though i don't think Watson should open - too attacking as per warner.
In saying this, if you had Watson to open it drops Cowan to 3 which would be ideal for stability. This drops the aggressive Hughes to 4 which would be ideal and Clarke slots back to his preferred 5. At 6 i still think either Bailey or Khwaja, then the rest as per discussed.
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I agree, although that would rely on the Aussie selectors actually looking at their resourses and doing something sensible - like picking the best available team. Clarke should probably be at 4. I still think Hughes is terrible, however this is a much more attacking team than the England team where the balance of blockers and hitters is wrong.
Watson
Warner
Cowan
Clarke
Hughes
Henriques
Wade
Starc
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
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however this is a much more attacking team than the England team where the balance of blockers and hitters is wrong.
Care to expand on that? A 5,6,7 of Bell, Root and Prior is superior to Hughes, Henriques and Root which ever way you look at it. While the Aussie side is aggressive, a Test is played over 5 days. I'd quite happily hav Compton, Cook and Trott see off the new ball and get to 250 for 1 at close of play then see Warner flash his way to 20/30 and then watch the procession of Aussie wickets fall.
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I agree, although that would rely on the Aussie selectors actually looking at their resourses and doing something sensible - like picking the best available team. Clarke should probably be at 4. I still think Hughes is terrible, however this is a much more attacking team than the England team where the balance of blockers and hitters is wrong.
Watson
Warner
Cowan
Clarke
Hughes
Henriques
Wade
Starc
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon
I think your selection of Henriques at 6 is only feasible if Watson bats only. If he bowls as well, no need for another allrounder, so i would go with a specialist batsman, someone who knows his game (experience). Besides that, i think the rest are good
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Care to expand on that? A 5,6,7 of Bell, Root and Prior is superior to Hughes, Henriques and Root which ever way you look at it. While the Aussie side is aggressive, a Test is played over 5 days. I'd quite happily hav Compton, Cook and Trott see off the new ball and get to 250 for 1 at close of play then see Warner flash his way to 20/30 and then watch the procession of Aussie wickets fall.
No problem. If you look at all the great teams they have a combination of attacking and defensive players in the line up. Especially if you look at the three truely great teams
Aus post 2nd world war (the invincibles) 1948 especially
WI in the 80's
Aus in the late 90's/2000's
we see a combination of hard hitting stroke players at the top of the order and batsmen who bat time to balance them (we wont even mention the players who came after the top three, Millar, Hassett, Clive Lloyd, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh etc...)
Barnes, Morris, Bradman
Grenidge, Haynes, Richards
Haydon or Slater with Langer or Taylor then Ponting at 3
Even the second tier of just very good teams we see the 2005 Eng team had
Trescothic, Strauss, Vaughan.
the Indian late 2000's team of:
Sehwag, Gambhir and Dravid
there is always at least one attacking opening bat and then complementing players around them.
We currently have a top three of
Cook, Compton and Trott, who hardly get the ball of the square - which means there is too much pressure on the likes of KP and Bell to take the game away from the oposition - even if they come in at 150-2 it will be just before tea and they will have to get their eye in - then go off for tea then come back, get their eye in and face the second new ball. We really are not helping ourselves.
My regularly stated view is that if we want to really challenge we need to ask the question of is there a way we can rebalance the order?
Should we think about Bell opening or KP at three. Yes. Manormanic would say that is his worst nightmare - but I can think of many worse scenarios. one of which is the current line up.
Would you not think a line up of
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Trott
Bairstow
Root/Compton
Prior
would look a better bet for putting pressure on the opposition early on? if it was 12-2 seeing trott walking out is far more reasurring that seeing KP walk out. if it was 210 for 2 just before tea and you then had trott walking out to bat the bowlers would want to kill themselves. This wouldn't happen with the current line up.
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You can line them up anyway you want...this series is a fore gone conclusion.
Australia's bowlers will scythe through the English batting line up in favourable conditions giving the Aussies the sniff, only for the Aussie batsmen to meekly crumble time and time again with only Clarke standing up on any regular basis.
It is going to get ugly my friends, very ugly.
I pray for a close, hard fought series, but I am not optimistic.
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Australia's bowlers will scythe through the English batting line up in favourable conditions
I don't see the conditions being all that favourable for the Aussie bowlers or see them scything through our batting. But that is just my view.
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Don't for a minute think it will happen but surely the Aussies need guys who have done it week in week out in England
1. Rogers
2. Warner
3. Hughes
4. Clarke
5. Watson
6. Hodge/ Voges
7. Haddon
8. Siddle
9. Starc
10. Pattinson
11. Johnson
Batting order of the tail is all wrong as I was going to play a spinner but if you had hodge and Clarke they would do about as good a job as Lyon.
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No mention of Steve Smith so far, Aussies best bat after Clarke in India surely?
My View:
Cowan
Warner
Watson
Clarke
Khawaja
Smith
Paine
O'Keefe/Lyon
Siddle
Harris
Pattinson
Don't rate Hughes at all at the moment, I think Bailey mustered one Shield fifty all season so no room for him. Marsh got destroyed by Indian seamers in Aus which is pretty embarassing plus he seems to cause plenty of trouble.
Smith was Australia best bat after Clarke in India so he gets first go at 6 and Khawaja was supposedly the second coming of bradman after his 30 in the Ashes so lets see what he's got.
I keep hearing how O'keefe is the best spinner around in Aus although I havent seen him so he is in. Siddle is the best seamer they have provided he pitches it up and doesnt do a Broad enforcer role! Harris provided he is fit is still ahead of Starc who is a bit wayward but does provide variety. Pattinson is quick and talented but made of biscuits so I don't expect him to play all 5 tests. Plus all of the bowlers can bat a bit whihc will help when the top order fails.
Don't rate Wade or Haddin so if Paine is fit then I want to see what the hype of a few years ago was all about.
As an englishman I would quite like to see the following XI:
Warner
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Henriques
Wade
Maxwell
Johnson
Starc
Siddle
Doherty/Lyon
Plenty of mediocre players in there :)
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I stated in my post who I reckoned the Best XI the aussies could muster.
I agree, that the only likely change will be Rogers, but thats the XI out of Australia that are still available for Tests that I feel is their best team.
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My regularly stated view is that if we want to really challenge we need to ask the question of is there a way we can rebalance the order?
Should we think about Bell opening or KP at three. Yes. Manormanic would say that is his worst nightmare - but I can think of many worse scenarios. one of which is the current line up.
Would you not think a line up of
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Trott
Bairstow
Root/Compton
Prior
would look a better bet for putting pressure on the opposition early on? if it was 12-2 seeing trott walking out is far more reasurring that seeing KP walk out. if it was 210 for 2 just before tea and you then had trott walking out to bat the bowlers would want to kill themselves. This wouldn't happen with the current line up.
I don't agree with everything you've said but I do agree that there is a certain logic to avoiding, where possible, the dangers inherent in a one paced line up, which England do kind of have with Cook, Compton and Trott in the first three spots. There might be days when the ability to grind out two sessions at who cares how few an over is a positive, but tehse are few and far between and, for the most part, mopre aggressive players can make the adjustment down more easily than Brigadeer Block types can press the accelerator.
But...firstly, I really would not want to have KP at three. The point about Trott walking in at 12-2 is valid, but I reckon most of the times when that happened would be because KP walked in at 12-1 not fully engaged and, looking at your scoreboard point in reverse, the opposition would be far more likely to want to kill themselves if they were about to face a fired up Pietersen looking to remind the crowd that it was him they paid to see Goddammit....
This argument does make Nick Compton look vulnerable. I don't have a problem with this - you all know I was not sure of him before New Zealand and I remain unsure now, for all that he made a couple of easy flat deck tons; the question is who would replace him because I do not at this stage share your perception that Root is capable of dashing the ball around, am certainly not keen on the idea of Bell doing it (even ifit does free up a spot for young Bluey) and do not see an obvious candidate in the first class game, unless Hales has a really stellar year in 2013.
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I can't believe that the Aussies don't have better players than Hughes? Kawaja has experience of English conditions and for me is a far better option. What about Finch? Or is he just a 20/20 player?
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No problem. If you look at all the great teams they have a combination of attacking and defensive players in the line up. Especially if you look at the three truely great teams
Aus post 2nd world war (the invincibles) 1948 especially
WI in the 80's
Aus in the late 90's/2000's
we see a combination of hard hitting stroke players at the top of the order and batsmen who bat time to balance them (we wont even mention the players who came after the top three, Millar, Hassett, Clive Lloyd, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh etc...)
Barnes, Morris, Bradman
Grenidge, Haynes, Richards
Haydon or Slater with Langer or Taylor then Ponting at 3
Even the second tier of just very good teams we see the 2005 Eng team had
Trescothic, Strauss, Vaughan.
the Indian late 2000's team of:
Sehwag, Gambhir and Dravid
there is always at least one attacking opening bat and then complementing players around them.
We currently have a top three of
Cook, Compton and Trott, who hardly get the ball of the square - which means there is too much pressure on the likes of KP and Bell to take the game away from the oposition - even if they come in at 150-2 it will be just before tea and they will have to get their eye in - then go off for tea then come back, get their eye in and face the second new ball. We really are not helping ourselves.
My regularly stated view is that if we want to really challenge we need to ask the question of is there a way we can rebalance the order?
Should we think about Bell opening or KP at three. Yes. Manormanic would say that is his worst nightmare - but I can think of many worse scenarios. one of which is the current line up.
Would you not think a line up of
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Trott
Bairstow
Root/Compton
Prior
would look a better bet for putting pressure on the opposition early on? if it was 12-2 seeing trott walking out is far more reasurring that seeing KP walk out. if it was 210 for 2 just before tea and you then had trott walking out to bat the bowlers would want to kill themselves. This wouldn't happen with the current line up.
I tend to agree with most of Buzz's analysis... Please please please don't put Bell up the order though!!! He's fragile enough at 5 let alone moving him up to a more pressurised position!!
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I'd actually like to see Bell open, which would give better balance as Bell is more attacking in nature but also has great technique and concentration. Compton has done nothing wrong but has to find a balance between surviving and scoring runs.
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I'd actually like to see Bell open, which would give better balance as Bell is more attacking in nature but also has great technique and concentration.
has no brain.. has no brain.. has no brain
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has no brain.. has no brain.. has no brain
I'm impressed how you have managed to change a thread about the Aussies in to more bashing of Bell! :)
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I'm impressed how you have managed to change a thread about the Aussies in to more bashing of Bell! :)
Sorry :). Can't let people discuss him opening, gives me nightmares him being at 5 let alone opening!
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I suggested Bell because he is used to batting at the top of the order, opens in ODI cricket and is more of a stroke player who has almost 6000 test runs at 46 - and I think he is in the top 6 batsmen in the country. No problem with not agreeing with me, but you are likely to be wrong (!!! ;))
Back on topic - what to the Aussies think of Sam Robson? - he clearly views himself as an Aussie (nothing wrong with that) and is playing under his British passport so he isn't an overseas and can hedge his position (I would do the same)
This is great from George "it's going to be a bright sunshining day" Dobell on cricinfo today
It is probably only natural that a club based in the middle of one of the most ethnically diverse cities in Europe will reflect the community it serves. But, even by the standards of London, this Middlesex side is a cosmopolitan bunch.
It contains two men born in Australia, three men born or brought up in South Africa, one born in German, another in Wales and one each from Lancashire and Kent. Even the two London-born players, Tim Murtagh and Toby Roland-Jones, have previously passed through the Surrey system. You could make a strong case to argue that not one of this team have developed through the Middlesex development programme.
Middlesex, noting their reliance upon imports, have invested heavily in their facilities in recent times and it is hoped, in time, they will be more self reliant.
But they were grateful for a couple of their imports on the second day of this game. First Sam Robson established a platform before John Simpson built on it to earn Middlesex a position from which they could earn a match-defining advantage on day three.
Robson looks a fine player. There is more than a passing resemblance to Mike Atherton in his determination and the way he looks at the crease, with the fluency through wide mid on and the similarities of the cut stroke most uncanny.
But quite who benefits from his development remains to be seen. Robson, who claims he is uncertain over his qualification status, was born in Australia, played for the U19 side and returned to participate in Grade cricket this winter. He has a British mother, however, and is ensuring he spends enough time in the UK to qualify for England at the start of the 2014 season. In this weather, that probably shows some level of commitment.
Bearing in mind Australia's current dearth of batting talent, however, he could well be one of three men in this match (Chris Rogers and Ed Cowan are the others) considered for national selection some time before then. His options remain open and Australia could do a great deal worse.
Certainly he was reluctant to categorically confirm his commitment to England when asked about it at the close of play. "Everyone wants to play international cricket," he told ESPNcricinfo. "I'm loving playing in England and my home is in London. I'm not looking at anything more than that."
Whether that is a satisfactory situation in a county game that is duty bound to support the development of the England team is debatable. While it might be argued that players like Robson help raise the standard, it might equally be argued that they impede the progress of young men who would be less equivocal in their national commitments. Robson, understandably focused on making his way in the game, is hardly to blame for the unsatisfactory regulations.
Robson, keeping with the theme of this match, battled hard only to then play a large part in his own downfall. Throwing his hands at a wide ball, he edged to the keeper in a spell of play that brought Nottinghamshire back into the game; a shot he later described as "criminal". Middlesex, having posted 106 for the first wicket, then lost five wickets for 69 runs. Still trailing by 103 with their top-order gone, the match was in the balance.
That Nottinghamshire side were unable to capitalise upon that position was largely their own fault. On a pitch offering variable bounce and in conditions offering just enough seam and swing, they delivered far too many release balls to build the requisite pressure. Middlesex accumulated 160 runs in boundaries and another 38 in extras - including 11 from wides and eight from no-balls - as Nottinghamshire's bowlers squandered the conditions and sprayed the ball around.
"We're slightly disappointed," Luke Fletcher, the pick of the bowlers, admitted afterwards. "We didn't put the ball in the right areas enough. It is still moving around and swinging."
Gareth Berg - South African born, but an Italian international cricketer - and Simpson also deserve some credit. The pair added 116 for the sixth wicket with Simpson registering his first half-century in the Championship since September 2011. He drove and cut nicely, but could count himself fortunate that Nottinghamshire's bowlers remained so inconsistent. He had earned his side a lead of 19 by the time bad light ended play 9.2 overs early. Possibly, had Ollie Rayner been dismissed, play could have continued: if is often said you can see clearly once Rayner has gone.
Perhaps the cold contributed to Nottinghamshire's problems. In conditions so cold that even Captain Oates would think twice before venturing out for a walk, the floodlights remained on for the entire day and fielding was an uncomfortable business.
When Nottinghamshire did stick to a decent line and length, they won due reward. Chris Rogers, who may have nudged the Australian selectors once more by passing 19,000 first-class runs on his way to another half-century, perished when he left a straight one that swung back at him before Joe Denly, Dawid Malan and Neil Dexter were all forced onto the back foot by sustained and impressive spells of short bowling and then dismissed when they failed to get fully forward to fuller balls.
While Fletcher may still more resemble the chef at Hooters he used to be than an elite athlete, he bowled with skill and discipline. Ajmal Shahzad, among some pretty horrid stuff, also bowled some excellent deliveries, but Andy Carter, feeding the cut shot, endured a disappointing day and Andre Adams, by his lofty standards, was surprisingly inconsistent.
Middlesex's hopes of pressing for victory could be harmed by an injury to James Harris, though. The club fear he has a hamstring strain, but hope he has been suffering from cramp after his exertions on the first day. It remains to be seen if he will bowl again in the game.
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As an englishman i'd love to see Maxwell continue getting in the side, he's just not up to the level required if you ask me!
1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. P Hughes
4. Clarke
5. Watson
6. Henriques
7. Wade
8. Siddle
9. M Starc
10. J Pattinson
11. Lyon/Doherty/and for old time sakes, about time someone through Shane Warne into the mix for a recall :)
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I think Bailey mustered one Shield fifty all season so no room for him.
Baileys current playing here at Hampshire for the season so has a chance to impress , hope he doesn't get in though so we keep him all season ???. Got 90 odd in his first innings the other day in the CC.
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Out of the recent Australian test series I only really watched the India series closely. On this flimsy evidence though I would say their best line-up is:
Warner
Cowan
Watson (if he bowls, if he doesn't bowl then he is out of the team)
Clarke
Khawaja (struggling to think of any other recognised batsman who can fit in here other than the out-of-sorts Hughes)
Smith
Wade
Siddle
Johnson
Pattinson
Starc
Long tail but Siddle and Johnson can contribute. I think at Trent Bridge it probably best you go for your best seam attack. If it looks like there may be some turn then Lyon comes in. This line-up requires Smith and/or Watson to bowl significant overs and if Watson isn't bowling then bring in any batsman or Henriques to bat 7 and shuffle the middle order.
Whatever way I have looked at it, the Aussies are extremely thin in batting and although he performed OK in India Smith just isn't high quality enough to hold down a spot on his batting alone.
I've got tickets for day 2 at TB so I hope England bat first and put on a decent display on the 1st day so I can see the likes of Prior smack it around in the 2nd morning then watch the Aussies crumble for the rest of the day.
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Warner
Cowan
Chris rodgers (has 19000 first class runs and provides experiance to a fragile order)
Clarke
Khawaja
Smith
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Starc/Pattinson
Lyon
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I don't see the conditions being all that favourable for the Aussie bowlers or see them scything through our batting. But that is just my view.
What?
Is England planning on preparing 5 sub continental style bunsen burners for the series?
If that is the case, your bastmen will make 500+ each time.
If normal seaming decks are prepared, the Aussie pacemen will take wickets...and lots of them.
The Australian batting is so weak, that any advantage gained by the bowlers will be lost immediately.
I have been pretty clear on that for months.
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Sam Robson is an interesting one.
The fact that he has never been selected to play even a single FC match in Australia despite averaging 50 in CC only a year or so ago suggests that the CA heirarchy believe that Robson had his sights on representing England.
However, with this more recent non committal attitude from Robson would suggest that he has done a volte face, as it doesn't take Einstein to work out that Robson would stand a very good chance of playing for Australia sooner than he would for England.
Robson may consider himself an "Aussie", but evidently something in the past has convinced CA to see him as committed elsewhere - how else can you explain NSW ignoring him in the last two seasons?
In any case, he would need a mountain of runs in FC cricket over the next two months to force his way into the squad for the upcoming Ashes squad. Even then, it would be extraordinary for a lad to be selected for Australia's test team who has never played FC cricket in Australia.
But, desperate times call for desperate measures.
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I don't know what the story with Robsonis - he certainly speaks like an Aussie and behaves like an Aussie (for good and for ill) - hell, he even bats like an Aussie.
Is he ready for Test cricket? Probably not - is he better than Phil Hughes? Almost certainly...
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I don't know what the story with Robsonis - he certainly speaks like an Aussie and behaves like an Aussie (for good and for ill) - hell, he even bats like an Aussie.
Is he ready for Test cricket? Probably not - is he better than Phil Hughes? Almost certainly...
Better than Hughes?
I haven't seen Robson to be fair, so I have no idea.
It would be hard NOT to be technically better than Hughes, but statistically, it is a no contest. At the same age as Robson is now, Phil Hughes already three test centuries (2 against SA and 1 against SL) and 4 scores in the 80's (2 against SL, 1 against SA and 1 against NZ). Also has a 75 against SA and a 69 against India.
Last County Championship season Robson barely averaged 30 while Hughes averaged circa 45.
So while Robson apparently has a lovely technique (if the comparisons with Atherton are correct, that is good enough for me), his results are modest compared to the kamikaze technique Hughes.
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A few obvious differences though - Robson has not as yet been routinely exposed by all types of bowlers in all types of conditions, nor has he been shown to be incapable of making the technical adjustments necessary to move beyond the one or two season wonder that he will probably be remembered as!
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A few obvious differences though - Robson has not as yet been routinely exposed by all types of bowlers in all types of conditions, nor has he been shown to be incapable of making the technical adjustments necessary to move beyond the one or two season wonder that he will probably be remembered as!
Who is the one or two season wonder?
Hughes - who has been playing FC class cricket with excellent results since he was 18 years old?
Or Robson who is basically the same age (less than a year difference) and has accomplished 3/5ths of FA?
No offense, but I want to see a hell of lot more from Robson who has basically only ever had one good summer before I will declare him the second coming.
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At international level, Hughes is a one season wonder who has become an embarrassing joke.
No, Robson is not necessarily the best replacement, but he is one the Australian selectors should look at, if he is interested in playing that is.
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At international level, Hughes is a one season wonder who has become an embarrassing joke.
No, Robson is not necessarily the best replacement, but he is one the Australian selectors should look at, if he is interested in playing that is.
Hughes made two scores in the mid 80's in consecutive tests only a few months ago.
Hughes also made a good 69 when he was wrongly given out in India (with DRS he would have been fine).
Can you tell me what your last few test scores are?
Hmmm, a keyboard warrior, eh?
How about posting your last 10 club scores - I reckon Hughes has you covered there as well.
Actually, talking about DRS, if it was in place in the 2009 Ashes, Hughes would not have been given out for 16 in his last test innings on English soil when Strauss caught the ball after it bounced 6 inches in front of him at slip off Anderson.
The English bowlers apparently had Hughes "worked out" in that series.
In Hughes three innings on that tour he made 36 at Sophia Gardens before he got a brute of a ball from Flintoff that would have tested any batsman out let alone Hughes.
He then was out for 4 at Lords strangled down the legside (how does a bowler plan for taking a wicket that way?)
Finally he was cheated out in the second innings for 16 when Strauss claimed a catch that bounced in front of him.
There is no correlation between the three dismissals - so I am not sure what "worked out" was?
Tell me, was the plan to bowl a leg cutter at his body to get him to edge to first slip?
Bowl at his hip to get him to glance one fine down the leg side to the keeper?
Or was it to edge one low to second slip which bounces before it is caught?
So tell me, what was the plan again?
In the 2010/11 it was a different set of circumstances, Hughes had been out of the test team for 18 months pretty much and was in horrendous FC form that summer, averaging 16 and in the process of losing his place (briefly) in the NSW team. Against all logic, he was selected to open in the last three tests when Katich was ruled out injured. He was set up to fail by the Oz selectors - not purposely, but through their stupidity.
Of course your heroes, Bairstow who averages 25.62 at test level and Joe Root who averages 30.16 at test level are SUPERSTARS eh?
But Hughes who averages higher is an embarrassing joke?
You are too funny!
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I do like a good arguement! Hughes is far better than people give him credit for.
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I do like a good arguement! Hughes is far better than people give him credit for.
He certainly has his technical frailties, no question, but anyone who has made centuries and half centuries at test level cannot be sneezed at...let alone called an "embarrassment".
You can throw in most of Australia's top order at the moment, because with the exception of Clarke, none of the rest are performing. Watson has averaged mid 20s over the last two years, Cowan averages around 30, Warner in the low 40's...it doesn't inspire much confidence.
But...I would kill to play test cricket like these guys. If I could play even a 1/4 as good as any of the guys mentioned in my last two posts, I would be the happiest geezer going. Because they are ALL better tan any of us on here will ever be.
For that alone, they are worthy of respect.
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Vic - we are not comparing them with people on here! Why would you do that!!!
I think people are comparing them to other International batsmen?
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I think Vic has it pretty much spot on there. It's easy to bag Hughes. The caught Guptill bowled Martin was an interesting case study though.
I worry about the Ashes, particularly in line with what Buzz said about the top order creating pressure for the dashers.
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Hughes made two scores in the mid 80's in consecutive tests only a few months ago.
How about posting your last 10 club scores - I reckon Hughes has you covered there as well.
I deleted the rest of your piffle. And checked - on last ten knocks I beat Mr Hughes by nearly a hundred fifty total, though at a rather lower level (well, some of those Sri Lankan seamers were pretty woeful so maybe not THAT much lower....).
But anyway, lets look at a few of the things you neglected to mention in pathetically posturing bullet point form:
I doubt anyone on here has ever gone ona run of "form" at our chosen level like Phillip-dear did in India. What was it, 5 dismissals in 32 balls for 4 runs or something?
I doubt anyone on here has had to have a (suposedly) lesser player cover for them against good opposition lest they fail and it affect their confidence.
The fact is, once that initial three test burst of form against South Africa passed, Hughes has managed a few cheap runs against one of the worst Test attacks in living memory....and not much else. He can't play the short ball, the ball close to his body, the inswinger or any form of spin - I actually admire his tenacity for continuing to try (or at least, I would until I think about the pathetic conversations he must have had before the South Africa series).
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I think you guys are missing one key factor, neither Hughes nor Robson are good enough for test cricket, there must be better players whether they be in aus or england and an aussie.
in my personal opinion i honestly think chris rodgers would be the perfect guy to bat at 3 to bring in some experiance (not much test having only played one) as he has hit 19000 fc runs!!
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in my personal opinion i honestly think chris rodgers would be the perfect guy to bat at 3 to bring in some experiance (not much test having only played one) as he has hit 19000 fc runs!!
In the short term, Australia could do much worse I agree - a side of Rogers, Warner, +1, Clarke, D Hussey, a bowling Watson, Wade, O'Keefe, Starc, Siddle, Pattinson has some stability to it (the =1 is tricky - Cowan Khawaja or Burns?)
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Why did khawaja get dropped? He looked quite good.
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I've always rated khawaja, even if he has got a name I always forget how to spell! ;)
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In the short term, Australia could do much worse I agree - a side of Rogers, Warner, +1, Clarke, D Hussey, a bowling Watson, Wade, O'Keefe, Starc, Siddle, Pattinson has some stability to it (the =1 is tricky - Cowan Khawaja or Burns?)
yeah definately short term however having him round the squad would bring on the attitude clarke wants
khawaja is definately one for the future just needs a run in the side
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khawaja is definately one for the future just needs a run in the side
He does - though I am not entirely convinced that he will make it, he may equally be one of those players who uses international cricket to work out his game that little bit extra.
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I deleted the rest of your piffle. And checked - on last ten knocks I beat Mr Hughes by nearly a hundred fifty total, though at a rather lower level (well, some of those Sri Lankan seamers were pretty woeful so maybe not THAT much lower....).
But anyway, lets look at a few of the things you neglected to mention in pathetically posturing bullet point form:
I doubt anyone on here has ever gone ona run of "form" at our chosen level like Phillip-dear did in India. What was it, 5 dismissals in 32 balls for 4 runs or something?
I doubt anyone on here has had to have a (suposedly) lesser player cover for them against good opposition lest they fail and it affect their confidence.
The fact is, once that initial three test burst of form against South Africa passed, Hughes has managed a few cheap runs against one of the worst Test attacks in living memory....and not much else. He can't play the short ball, the ball close to his body, the inswinger or any form of spin - I actually admire his tenacity for continuing to try (or at least, I would until I think about the pathetic conversations he must have had before the South Africa series).
You are full of crap.
Firstly, I do not believe you and until you show me your score cards, I will continue to treat your utterances as BS.
Secondly, Hughes doesn't need any protection from SA as his record against them is the best of any team he has played against - and yes, he has played more than one series against them you wonker.
Joe Root - the GREAT white hope on this forum - played against arguably the worst seam attack in the world and did three fifths of (No Swearing Please) all. Do you label him an "embarrassment"?
Nope. because you are blinkered wonker.
Jonny Bairstow has done next to nothing, yet you rate him a superstar. Based on what? One innings?
How about the other favourite poster boy around here - Taylor - he hasn't managed even ONE decent test innings. He was highly rated because he made some runs in Div 2. Big fockin deal!
But don't worry wonkermaniac, because there were some really classy South African kids at the last u19 World Cup - I am sure the ECCB talent scouts in Cape Town are already trying to find even a skerrick of British DNA in their family trees in order to fit them in to the England top order as we speak.
P.S. I love how you avoided answering the question vis-à-vis Phil Hughes three varied dismissals in the 2009 Ashes - nutmegged you good and proper you plonker!
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I think you guys are missing one key factor, neither Hughes nor Robson are good enough for test cricket, there must be better players whether they be in aus or england and an aussie.
in my personal opinion i honestly think chris rodgers would be the perfect guy to bat at 3 to bring in some experiance (not much test having only played one) as he has hit 19000 fc runs!!
If there were better players than Phil Hughes in Australia, they would already be playing.
I would rather play Rogers, D. Hussey and old man Hodge, as allied with Clarke, they would make decent totals to give the bowlers something to bowl at - but that isn't going to happen, so it is pointless even dreaming of it.
If I could pick the first test team, it would look something like this:
Warner
Cowan
Khawaja
Clarke
Burns
S. Marsh
Wade
Starc
Pattinson
Siddle
Lyon/Bird
But no way will the selectors go down that road.
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Still speculation but here's what Cricinfo thinks:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/631745.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/631745.html)
I know he was part of the 'Homework 4' but I thought Johnson was worth the risk this summer, even just as a squad player.
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This for me could be quite a good squad...
1.) David Warner
2.) Ed Cowan
3.) Phil Hughes
4.) Michael Clarke
5.) Shaun Marsh
6.) Shane Watson / Steve Smith ( Would make it difficult to justify having Lyon in the squad if you have Smith, but if you have Watson you might, MIGHT need one less pacer)
7.) Matt Wade. No way am I picking Brad Haddin.
8.) James Faulkner ( Not rated in the 5 day game, but he is a big talent, and a bit of exposure could do him good, and he is the in the top three for leading bowlers in the IPL, but then again you have this question of T20 and Test being so different, you wonder if he could last a series in England without going Gayle-Force and slogging et al ?)
9.) Mitch Starc. Rate him highly.
10.) James Pattinson.
11.) Nathan Lyon/Xavier Doherty/
On The Fringe :
Aaron Finch
Ben Laughlin
Dave Hussey
Luke Pomersbach
Mitchell Marsh
Jackson Bird
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6.) Shane Watson / Steve Smith ( Would make it difficult to justify having Lyon in the squad if you have Smith, but if you have Watson you might, MIGHT need one less pacer)
Smith is not a bowler! Can't believe people haven't figured this out yet. He is a batsman who can turn his arm over in the same mould as Pietersen or Trott. He only bowled 15 overs in the Sheffield shield last year so there is no way he would be picked as a front line spinner.
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Yeah Smith can not get into the team as an all-rounder. Only as a batsman where he might get the nod over Hughes or Marsh. Both Smith and Watson have shown form in the IPL so possible they could both play but Watson has to bowl if that is the case.
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well the squad has been announced
Ashes squad: Michael Clarke (capt), Brad Haddin (vice-capt, wk), David Warner, Ed Cowan, Phillip Hughes, Shane Watson, Usman Khawaja, Chris Rogers, Matthew Wade (wk), James Faulkner, Ryan Harris, Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Mitchell Starc, Nathan Lyon, Jackson Bird.
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It is, if nothing else, a step back toward common sense from the Australian selectors.
Obviously, Hughes should have been left out, but that was never realistically going to happen. At least the other batting places are right (assuming that Watson is going to bowl), and Rogers will add some gumption to the top of the order.
Faulkner instead of Henriques....not sure what the latter really did wrong...
Smith perhaps a bit unlucky after being one of the better performers in India...
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Surprised they have gone back to Haddin, although I do accept he brings a bit more leadership to the table and is a close buddy of Clarke's. Not sure that Wade has done a lot wrong, although claims that he would get in the side for his batting alone are laughable.
Also don't see where Rogers is going to slot in, unless Watson takes the all-rounders role at number 6, in which case Rogers would fill the number 3 slot vacated by Hughes.
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based on the squad, the likely batting order will be
David Warner, Ed Cowan, Chris Rogers, Shane Watson, Michael Clarke (capt),Phillip Hughes, Brad Haddin (vice-capt, wk), Ryan Harris, Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Nathan Lyon.
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Bit harsh on Michell Starc if he doesn't start the series.
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I agree. I think that he will play instead of Pattinson.
I'm not sure that Hughes will bat at six either.
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I don't think Pattinson will miss out either - I suspect Harris and Siddle will share workhorse duties.
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They (the Aussies) need experience and scrappers, of which Haddin and Rogers tick both boxes. The Ashes isn't a place for players who are struggling for form at the start of their careers (Hughes, Khawaja, et al).
Agree that Rogers should bat 3 and Hughes/AN Other at 6. Not surprised Johnson wasn't picked for English conditions, though feel that Smith and Henriques have been hard done by.
Don't know anything about Faulkner.
Watson got hammered in an article in the Cricketer, so I guess if Haddin is a good mate of Clarke's, he wants a right hand man he can trust.
Overall, glad the selectors have seen sense and gone for experience...
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Can't play Harris and Siddle, they're basically the same bowler. Starc as a left arm would bring variety and is a more than useful bat as well. Phil Hughes isn't a number 6 either - Watson will have to revert back here if he plans to play as a change bowler as well.
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There are 5 openers in that squad so the batting order will take some figuring out.
The interesting thing is the A squad has Pattinson, Siddle and Harris. Maybe a bit of a bowl off there?
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Can't play Harris and Siddle, they're basically the same bowler. Starc as a left arm would bring variety and is a more than useful bat as well. Phil Hughes isn't a number 6 either - Watson will have to revert back here if he plans to play as a change bowler as well.
your spot on.
Warner
Cowan
Rogers
Hughes
Clarke
Watson
Haddin
Starc
Siddle
Pattinson
Lyon
On paper, it looks a solid lineup compared to what they have recently been experimenting with.
Rogers gives some backbone to the important No3 position, Hughes can then play his natural aggressive game at 4, Clarke slots back into his favoured 5, Watson can play the old ball bully role at 6 or new ball role he was accustom to when opening, Haddin can slot in nicely at 7 where he can cause some damage as an aggressive batsmen, Starc, Siddle & Pattinson are bowlers who are all very capable with the bat and Lyon is very differcult to remove as the bookend No 11.
Harris will be used as a pinch hitting bowler when required if one of the 3 quicks are not firing, then there is Faulkner (bowling allrounder) who will be putting the wind up Watson's rear end if he doesn't perform and Bird as a McGrath clone if the bowlers leak runs on the short english outfields.
Looks like good balance with excellent coverage should it be required.
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As an England fan I think it's a great shame Mitchell Johnson and Steve Smith haven't been picked! They lighten the mood considerably!
Good to see Chris Rogers get into the squad, he's a top player and will add some solidity to the top of the order. Henriques absence is a little odd as he hasn't done badly in the few games he's played? Maybe he's just not one of Clarke's mates? Harris is the best of the Aussie quicks so he's a good pick but I doubt he'll stay fit for the entire series. I appreciate that recently he has been injury free but the Aussies only play about 8 games a season domestically! An Ashes tour might prove too much for him.
The rest of the quicks look very good and will cause problems. Lyon will be ineffective, he's ok but nothing special. He'd be 4th choice if he was English and that's pushing it! The rest of the batting looks shaky. I don't rate Warner. Against the new ball in England he'll get found out, Watson is no better than average, Hughes is a walking wicket and Ed Cowan hasn't done enough to convince me he is international class yet but he does seem like a good guy! Haddin will do alright and Clarke is the obvious star of the side.
I can't see any other result than an England win but it won't be a walkover and the series in Australia will be closer but I think it will still come a couple of years too early for Australia.
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Faulkner is a far superior cricketer to Henriques - proven performer in all forms of the game. He is an aggressive and confident cricketer who gets the job done, bowls very economically with his lefties and his batting has come on leaps and bounds with consistent runs.
I think the selectors wanted confident personel in the team who will not be overalled by the occassion and Faulkner definitely fits the bill here..... he wasn't shy at giving Gayle a send off during the recent series
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Faulkner is a far superior cricketer to Henriques - proven performer in all forms of the game. He is an aggressive and confident cricketer who gets the job done, bowls very economically with his lefties and his batting has come on leaps and bounds with consistent runs.
And he's a good mate of Clarke's??
Was he injured for the tour of India then or was the selection of Henriques just another example of shambolic Australian selection?
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Reflecting on this, it smacks to me of a relatively low scoring series, with two good seam attacks (at leas until injuries bite) attacking two batting line ups that have their weaknesses. England are still the favourites - their batting being far the more reliable of the two sides - but at least Australia are bringing something close to the right party.
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And he's a good mate of Clarke's??
Was he injured for the tour of India then or was the selection of Henriques just another example of shambolic Australian selection?
you said it .......
Australian cricket has too many cooks trying to find the perfect recipe for a tasty dish and i think they get lost in the interpretation.
They had consistent proven performers over the last couple of seasons (like Faulkner) and didn't select them. He was called into the one dayers and 20:20 during the australian season and was probably our best performed player, not to mention he had a huge sheffield shield final and still go overlooked.
He is a good old fashion scrapper who has the skills to execute, in the mould of the previous era of successful aussie cricketers.
For Australia cricket to get some clarity, they need to simplify their setup.... piss off all these high performance managers who have rugby backgrounds, piss off Inverarity who has lost touch with modern day cricket and bring in the big boys who understand what success is. Mark Taylor needs to be the head of cricket, Warney needs a role as he is a visionary, maybe a selector, McGrath needs to be the bowling coach, Hayden the batting coach and also find some role for Steve Waugh as he was the ultimate never say die competitor who performed and punched above his weight when it came to talent (an over achiever).
Might be earlier doors, but Ponting would be a awesome coach with his work ethic and fitness
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Rather strange that they replace one average keeper with another.
They should either have stuck with Wade or chose Hartley, as he's the best gloveman in Australia.
Faulkner is a very good young all rounder.
Good riddens that's Johnson's been caned.
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Reflecting on this, it smacks to me of a relatively low scoring series, with two good seam attacks (at leas until injuries bite) attacking two batting line ups that have their weaknesses. England are still the favourites - their batting being far the more reliable of the two sides - but at least Australia are bringing something close to the right party.
you said it. The team that will conjure up the most runs will win the series.
Bowling will dominate and patient batting will prevail...... this points to an English series win, because the aussie's don't know how to grind out an innings. Its breed into our nature to be competitive and aggressive and this will be their down fall if the seaming/swinging conditions expose their technical flaws.
Thats what happened in India - no one wanted to grind out an innings like Cook did during the english tour
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Reflecting on this, it smacks to me of a relatively low scoring series, with two good seam attacks (at leas until injuries bite) attacking two batting line ups that have their weaknesses. England are still the favourites - their batting being far the more reliable of the two sides - but at least Australia are bringing something close to the right party.
Isn't this what Vic said?
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I think spin will be the biggest difference. I can't believe O'Keefe, the leading spinner in the country, didn't even get into the A squad for a look. It's quite bizarre. Guess he's no mate of Clarke's hey Pedals? ;)
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It's the only thing I can think of! Some of the decisions have been downright bizarre......Mind you, I have always stood up for Micky Arthur as he worked wonders for the Saffers but he seems to have gone a bit mental whilst in charge of Australia.....maybe the pressure of dealing with the likes of Clarke, Watson etc has proved too much?
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I think Jackson Bird is going to be the surprise package of this series
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I think Jackson Bird is going to be the surprise package of this series
I totally agree. Fitness is the only issue. Otherwise I thought they would've given him a run on the A squad.
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He is the only Aussie bowler I have seen in recent times who can really move the ball off the seam
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Bowling will dominate and patient batting will prevail...... this points to an English series win, because the aussie's don't know how to grind out an innings. Its breed into our nature to be competitive and aggressive and this will be their down fall if the seaming/swinging conditions expose their technical flaws.
In some ways this is the issue that Australia face - they still think in their heads that they are the wonderful, talent laden, dominant side of ten years ago facing some of the awful sides that were offered up in sacrifice, when they ould do much better if they knew how to play within their limitations. The Cook analogy hits the nail on the head for me...
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Rather strange that they replace one average keeper with another.
this presupposes Haddin will be in the Test side - being vice captain for hte tour does not perforce guarantee that...
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this presupposes Haddin will be in the Test side - being vice captain for hte tour does not perforce guarantee that...
It does show who they are leaning towards as Wade was very much in line for the VC role.
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It does show who they are leaning towards as Wade was very much in line for the VC role.
really?
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Ummm yeh really... Wade captained the 1st tour game in India and was VC in the last test in India.
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Ummm yeh really... Wade captained the 1st tour game in India and was VC in the last test in India.
has not picked up on that....wow, would not have thought of him as leadership material!
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this presupposes Haddin will be in the Test side - being vice captain for hte tour does not perforce guarantee that...
They've announced Haddin is the number one gloveman as it stands now.
overall they've done well with the squad imo. I cant stand Warner and would love Rogers come in and excell in the opening spot.
Rogers
Cowan
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Wade
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
Starc
Lyon
For mine, however Warner will open in Rogers spot.
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Where's Vic when you need him...... i wouldn't mind seeing his comments on this.
Come on mate, give us your feedback on todays topic.
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Warner is almost a lock - I would have thought Hughes would be more at risk.
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Warner is not my favourite cricketer, however if he gets going he can win or setup a test match in a session. I'm sure we will get one classic during the series and this is what the selectors will be banking on (especially on the small grounds) ...... similar to Sehwag.
Everyone writes off Hughes, however he has a habit of scoring big runs when he gets a start. His first class career will show this.
I think he has the determination and drive that will eventually make him a success. Remember he is still a pup and has many years ahead of him.
All of the past Aussie great's rate him, so there must be something there....
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To have 21 FC hundreds at 24.. Theres more than something there!
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Chris Rogers and Haddin, top players although it has a hint of England selections of years gone by. We all remember the recall of Harmison, the call up of Darren Pattinson and the desperate calls for Ramprakash and Trescothick!
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Chris Rogers and Haddin, top players although it has a hint of England selections of years gone by. We all remember the recall of Harmison, the call up of Darren Pattinson and the desperate calls for Ramprakash and Trescothick!
you might be right, but it can't be any worse than the indian series selection debacle. At least Rogers and Haddin are scoring runs at present.
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And ironically the two players to come out of the India series with any credit, Smith and Henriques are deemed surplus to requirements. What a world we live in.
Amazing considering less than a decade ago Australia couldn't find room for Michael Hussey, David Hussey, Stuart Law, Martin Love, DiVenuto, Brad Hodge (I'm sure I'm missing some big names too). Potentially the best top 6 in the world aside from Australia's actual top 6 at the time.
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has not picked up on that....wow, would not have thought of him as leadership material!
No, Wade certainly didn't lead by example that's for sure. But he's definitely earmarked for a leadership role in future.
The loss of Hussey at the end of the summer was a huge blow. And this happened not long after Ponting had retired - granted he hadn't been performing for quite some time. And that's the problem sometimes (and hindsight is a wonderful thing) because if Ponting had retired at the right time, we could have given someone a full season (or two) to acclimatize while Hussey was still around.
As it stood, there was probably an assumption that a couple of the young guys would step up and fill those massive middle order voids in India. But that didn't happen and so they need some consistent, experienced heads to grind it out and hope this rubs off on the young guys along the way. Good move in my opinion.
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Well the squad was only announced yesterday and we have an injury already. It seems Ryan Harris flew home injured from the IPL the night before the squad was announced!!! Harris missed all but the last 3 games of the domestic season due to injury, played 3 IPL games and he's injured yet again... How on earth did Harris or Cricket Australia think it was appropriate for him to play in the IPL??? Flummoxed...
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Well the squad was only announced yesterday and we have an injury already. It seems Ryan Harris flew home injured from the IPL the night before the squad was announced!!! Harris missed all but the last 3 games of the domestic season due to injury, played 3 IPL games and he's injured yet again... How on earth did Harris or Cricket Australia think it was appropriate for him to play in the IPL??? Flummoxed...
oh dear - the most sensible thing that CA have done in ages followed immediately by evidence of clinical insanity...
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Harris is a great bowler, potential match winner who will excel in English conditions..........but is a massive risk being such a fragile cricketer (given his history) in a 5 day game.
He may win them a test or could severely hamper them, potentially losing them a test if he breaks down on the first day of a test match.
Does CA roll the dice and play him in the starting line up of the 1st Test or use him as a pinch hitter latter on in the series should he be required. Will they be aggressive and go for the all out win first up or play conservatively and run with a more durable lineup.
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I suspect he might be the kind of guy who could take wickets in England - he does a bit with the ball at decent pace from a good length - so can see why they want him along. I guess if Watson is bowling again or Faulkner plays as an all rounder there is less risk associated with a break down, otherwise he could surely only play as one of four seamer...
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I suspect he might be the kind of guy who could take wickets in England - he does a bit with the ball at decent pace from a good length - so can see why they want him along. I guess if Watson is bowling again or Faulkner plays as an all rounder there is less risk associated with a break down, otherwise he could surely only play as one of four seamer...
I thought if Watson bowled again, he would break?
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I thought if Watson bowled again, he would break?
he'll probably risk it if his test place is ont he line!
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he'll probably risk it if his test place is ont he line!
you hit the nail on the head. He wants to bowl again because he is not succeeding with the bat and is starting to feel insecure with his position within the team.
Sometimes i think with Watson, its all about "me" as a player rather the "team". Firstly he wants the opening position without giving thought to what Cowan or Warner may think, then when he breaks down and can't bowl, he talks about giving up bowling and becoming a specialist batsmen to further his career. Now thats not working, he wants to recommence the all rounders role and bowl again.
Don't get me wrong, i think his best value in the team is as an allrounder and he should bat No 6 after Clarke and be a geniune allrounder. These players provide enormous depth and flexibility with selection to a team, as freddie did when the english were at their best. Lets face it, Watto's bowling record is half decent and he has the happy knack of picking up an early wicket every time he comes onto bowl...... partnership breaker....
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he'll probably risk it if his test place is ont he line!
So it's pretty much a case of Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't then!
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An insight into Faulkner if you boys don't know much about him
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/632375.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/632375.html)
don't forget to read the comments at the bottom from the article viewers
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you hit the nail on the head. He wants to bowl again because he is not succeeding with the bat and is starting to feel insecure with his position within the team.
Sometimes i think with Watson, its all about "me" as a player rather the "team". Firstly he wants the opening position without giving thought to what Cowan or Warner may think, then when he breaks down and can't bowl, he talks about giving up bowling and becoming a specialist batsmen to further his career. Now thats not working, he wants to recommence the all rounders role and bowl again.
Don't get me wrong, i think his best value in the team is as an allrounder and he should bat No 6 after Clarke and be a geniune allrounder. These players provide enormous depth and flexibility with selection to a team, as freddie did when the english were at their best. Lets face it, Watto's bowling record is half decent and he has the happy knack of picking up an early wicket every time he comes onto bowl...... partnership breaker....
Couldn't agree more - as a fifth bowler, he'll do no worse than get through some overs economically (and, with Lyon occasionally a liability, having five bowlers relieves the pressure all round) whilst, if he is contributing elsewhere, his habit of making nice little 30s and 40s is far less offensive than if he was one of five frontline batsmen.
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i know you guys don't rate Lyon and i agree he is no front line spinner who is going to win you a test match, however his record isn't that bad considering he has only been playing cricket at a top level for a relatively short period of time. Don't forget, he only played a hand full of first class matches before he was picked from no where (first class debut was 6 mths before his test debut)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/272279.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/272279.html)
Lyon - average 33 / SR 63
Swann - average 29 / SR 59
In essence, he is still learning his trade but is more than capable of filling a role in resting the quicks and keeping some pressure on. Lets face it our strength is our pace attack.
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Good point, but I think he will improve over time. Correct me if I am wrong but he is the fastest off spinner to take 50 wickets. Another thing is there is not much competition in the spinning ranks so if the selectors can keep giving him a go I think he can become a very important asset to the Australian team when he gains some more experience.
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Good point, but I think he will improve over time. Correct me if I am wrong but he is the fastest off spinner to take 50 wickets. Another thing is there is not much competition in the spinning ranks so if the selectors can keep giving him a go I think he can become a very important asset to the Australian team when he gains some more experience.
well said, about time someone said something kind about Lyon on this forum. He will never be a Warney and we should never expect him to live up to those lofty standards. He is not far off Swanns figures and everyone talks Swann up as being the best offspinner going around.
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Thanks mate,
Are you a fellow aussie
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Rogers looks like he is staking a claim to a spot in the top order.
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i think its mainly due to his county form
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i think its mainly due to his county form
Genius!
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Think Rogers should be in over Cowan
Warner And Hughes should get the first two Tests as both are capable of scoring big hundreds if they get in.
Cowan gets in and gives his wicket away time after time.
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cowan will surely be playing the first test i think. at least he gets in almost everytime, which is more than what you can say about warner, hughes
top order: warner, cowan, hughes
middle order: watson, clarke
wicket keeper: haddin
bowling attack: pattinson, starc, siddle and lyon
1 spot left at no. 6/7. if they want someone who can bowl, faulkner would be a good option (at 7, haddin at 6 then) but not sure about his batting prowess.
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Having watched some more ipl I think that I'd have a Different team.
1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. Hughes
4. Wade
5. Clarke
6. Watson
7. Faulkner
8. Starc
9.Lyon
10. Pattinson
11. Hilfenhaus
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cowan will surely be playing the first test i think. at least he gets in almost everytime, which is more than what you can say about warner, hughes
top order: warner, cowan, hughes
middle order: watson, clarke
wicket keeper: haddin
bowling attack: pattinson, starc, siddle and lyon
1 spot left at no. 6/7. if they want someone who can bowl, faulkner would be a good option (at 7, haddin at 6 then) but not sure about his batting prowess.
Its almost certain that Rogers will play - they would not have realled a specialist in English conditions at 36 to be a squad batsman.
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Having watched some more ipl I think that I'd have a Different team.
What does the IPL have to do with Test cricket in English conditions?
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What does the IPL have to do with Test cricket in English conditions?
Form.
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Form.
So nothing then. Form in a biff bash 20 over slogfest for retirees and Indian club bowlers has nothing to do with form in the real, longer form of the game.
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Think Rogers should be in over Cowan
Warner And Hughes should get the first two Tests as both are capable of scoring big hundreds if they get in.
Cowan gets in and gives his wicket away time after time.
Cowan doesn't give his wicket away, thats the best thing about him.
And facepalming at whoever said after watching some IPL... hahah.
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here are my Aussie test squad!!
1. Cowan
2. Warner
3. Hughes
4. Haddin
5. Clarke
6. Watson
7. Faulkner
8. Starc
9.Lyon
10. Pattinson
11. Mitchell Johnson
I also genuinely believe the Brits have it all to do being the in form team with the current bragging rights etc, and if Jimmy anderson or swanny get injured etc there could be a big upset coming!!!
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mitchell johnson wasn't picked (even though he is bowling really well in the IPL)
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I'd say England are far from being in form!! The humbling series draw in NZ was a massive wake up call, England are a long way from being where they need to be.
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I think hilfenhaus is a must as he is one of the only Australian bowlers that can genuinely swing the ball
Our bowlers are not really swingers so to have him for me would be a must IMO
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Gents, Hilfenhaus isn't even in the squad, never mind the first choice XI... So he will not be anywhere near any of these sides unless someone gets injured (still a possibility mind you, seeing as though the Aussie seamers have a habit of falling apart...)
I'm with Gerry and Manormanic on this, you don't pick a guy out of the blue like Rogers without intending to play him!
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I'd say England are far from being in form!! The humbling series draw in NZ was a massive wake up call, England are a long way from being where they need to be.
Whats more worrying for Aus is that the last time they did poorly in a series they should have won (PAk in UAE), they won in India. Wake up calls seem to work for this squad, not that they should have to mind!
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I'm with Gerry and Manormanic on this, you don't pick a guy out of the blue like Rogers without intending to play him!
I almost agree with this. I think there is the thought process that they are worries about the top order being knocked over easily by the swinging ball. By having Rogers in the squad if Warner, Cowan etc are not in great form or say the top get blown away in the first test then Rogers who has played here for a while slots in to try and patch the top order up. The Aussie top order don't seem to like leaving the swinging ball and seem to go after things that players that have played in our conditions for a while know to leave alone.
Just my thought anyway.
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Cowan doesn't give his wicket away, thats the best thing about him.
And facepalming at whoever said after watching some IPL... hahah.
His run range on test matches is generally between 20-70.
So he gets in and never goes on to get the match winning score.
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As much as I love Shaun Marsh, I don't think he will get into the team unless someone gets injured or loses form! He couldn't buy a run and has struggled of late, very weird pick imo
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Assuming everyone is fit, this is the side I would like to see going into the first test:
Cowan
Watson
Rogers
Hughes
Clarke
Warner
Haddin
Pattinson
Harris
Lyon
Bird
Watson has always looked best as an opener for me, but having him there or at first drop with Rogers opening, seems the best option. Cowan provides some stability and metal remaining at opener. Rogers is in the squad to play; he won't have been picked just as a backup. Great record in county cricket, experienced and knows the conditions. At three or opening he provides a bit of steel. That allows Hughes, Clarke and Warner to bat where they should be (4, 5 and 6).
In English conditions, Pattinson, Harris and Bird should be the quicks for me. I love Siddle, but when Harris is fit he's a massive asset and a quality bowler. 98 wickets in two seasons playing for Tasmania in similar conditions suggests Jackson Bird should thrive. And Pattison is a must. If Harris breaks down or Bird doesn't work, bring in Siddle or Starc.
I'm not brave enough to say whether I think that team could claim a series win, but it should be able to give it a good shake. That said, England are still the better team by a long way, and I think I'll be fairly pleased if we manage to win a test or two and still lose the series. It'll be progress.
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As much as I love Shaun Marsh, I don't think he will get into the team unless someone gets injured or loses form! He couldn't buy a run and has struggled of late, very weird pick imo
He wasn't picked.
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He wasn't picked.
Ahh my bad!!
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Warner
Watson
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Watson
Rogers
Haddin
Bird
Pattinson
Harris
Assuming Watson can bowl a fair amount of overs this would be my team
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Warner
Watson
Cowan
Hughes
Clarke
Watson
Rogers
Haddin
Bird
Pattinson
Harris
Assuming Watson can bowl a fair amount of overs this would be my team
Surely we all know by now he cant! Watson so good he gets to bat twice?
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Whats more worrying for Aus is that the last time they did poorly in a series they should have won (PAk in UAE), they won in India. Wake up calls seem to work for this squad, not that they should have to mind!
You've also gotta remember that the tracks in NZ were absolute roads, esp the game Fulton got tons!! Will be so different over here
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Also there is no way in your side that Rogers would bat anywhere other than the top 3. Putting him at 7 does no one any benefit.
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Surely we all know by now he cant! Watson so good he gets to bat twice?
sorry the last place must go to either lyon or starc
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I'd like to see Starc get a run in swinging conditions!
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Jackson Bird will be a match winner
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A few questions:
Do Australia need a 5th recognised bowler? If so does that mean Faulkner or Watson plays as an all-rounder?
If they go for 4 bowlers, does that mean Lyon is more or less likely to be picked?
How much will the ability to bat count when picking the bowlers?
Answers on my desk by end of school and please show your working.
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Sam Robson must be in their thoughts if someone breaks down.
M I NO Runs HS Av
Sam Robson (Middlesex) 4 7 2 579 215* 115.8
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According to Chris Rodgers he's already made his mind up to play for England......he qualifies next May. He's scored more runs in 7 innings than Phil Hughes scored all season.... :D
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According to Chris Rodgers he's already made his mind up to play for England......he qualifies next May. He's scored more runs in 7 innings than Phil Hughes scored all season.... :D
what a shame that is...
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Indeed.........as good a 'steal' as any in recent years!
You have to ask yourself why Australia haven't been in touch sooner though....he has lived in England for 4 years now but he was the Australian under 19's captain...talk about casting someone adrift. If they lose him it will serve them right!
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is that something you have to decide, Symonds was selected to play for England and said, sorry I am an Aussie. I will have cost him maybe 40+ test match caps.
if he wanted the easy route to international cricket he would put his name forward to the Aussies, like Andrew Symmonds this is the harder call.
good luck to him.
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Honestly, why should he choose Australia?
He has never performed well enough in Australia to play even one first class game in Oz.
Before you all pipe up, his club record in grade cricket was mediocre at best and he quite simply did not merit selection.
His county record has been middling up until now as well, however, over the last two seasons he has improved after all the patience shown in him. Also, by all reports that 215 was made against an attack that was barely club standard let alone FC.
Let us see how he goes in the future shall we. Because as it stands, Phil Hughes has about 14 more FC hundreds than Sammy and 3 test hundreds more as well.
I wish the lad well.
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is that something you have to decide, Symonds was selected to play for England and said, sorry I am an Aussie. I will have cost him maybe 40+ test match caps.
if he wanted the easy route to international cricket he would put his name forward to the Aussies, like Andrew Symmonds this is the harder call.
good luck to him.
The "harder" call?
If he was available now, he would be replacing Compton this week!
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Would that be the same Nick Compton who already has more test 100's than Ed Cowan?
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Honestly, why should he choose Australia?
He has never performed well enough in Australia to play even one first class game in Oz.
Before you all pipe up, his club record in grade cricket was mediocre at best and he quite simply did not merit selection.
His county record has been middling up until now as well, however, over the last two seasons he has improved after all the patience shown in him. Also, by all reports that 215 was made against an attack that was barely club standard let alone FC.
Let us see how he goes in the future shall we. Because as it stands, Phil Hughes has about 14 more FC hundreds than Sammy and 3 test hundreds more as well.
I wish the lad well.
He would be playing state cricket, but coming back to Australia to play Aus state cricket would mean he'd have to play in England as an overseas player which would jeopardize his spot at Middlesex which isn't what he wanted to do. Still lives in Australia and plays club cricket here every season. Averaged 54 opening the batting in Sydney First Grade with 3 hundreds this season just gone.
Still has a big Australian accent with lots of mates here, nice guy too.
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The "harder" call?
If he was available now, he would be replacing Compton this week!
pretty sure he is behind Joe Root, Michael Carberry and a few others in the England pecking order to open the batting. All of whom would be in the current Aussie team.
but nice thought!!
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pretty sure he is behind Joe Root, Michael Carberry and a few others in the England pecking order to open the batting. All of whom would be in the current Aussie team.
but nice thought!!
Lets see, Cook and Root will start the Ahses with Compton, Carberry, Hales and Chopra ahead of Robson, so he'd be seventh choice at best!
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With Hales current form i dont think he'd be in that list, he needs an big season for notts and to break into the ODI side before i can see him in the test side especially with a relatively settled top order of cook, root/compton, trott, kp/bairstow. bell, taylor.
Id say james taylor has a better chance of playing test cricket again before hales especially with having root in the side who is by trade an opener not number 4/5/6
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Lets see, Cook and Root will start the Ahses with Compton, Carberry, Hales and Chopra ahead of Robson, so he'd be seventh choice at best!
I am 95% certain that Compton will be opening in the first Ashes test alongside Cook.
His record at this stage of his career is no worse than Trescothick or Vaughan.
Carberry has NO hope.
Hales and Chopra - we will see.
Root opening the first Ashes test? Yes please.
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pretty sure he is behind Joe Root, Michael Carberry and a few others in the England pecking order to open the batting. All of whom would be in the current Aussie team.
but nice thought!!
Carberry - a 32 year old with a FC average of 43?
Ahead of Chris Rogers? Average 50.16
We might be desperate, but we haven't bottomed out just yet.
Root? Yep, grant you that one. Will be a class player.
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Would that be the same Nick Compton who already has more test 100's than Ed Cowan?
Cowan's test hundred was against Steyn, Filander and Morkel.
Remember those guys?
You know, the ones that handed you your arses last summer?
Compton's two centuries were such landmark innings, that he is on the verge of being dropped, never to be seen again when they were only six innings ago.
That is what the English selectors think of those two hundreds.
I am glad you rate them higher than the English selectors.
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He would be playing state cricket, but coming back to Australia to play Aus state cricket would mean he'd have to play in England as an overseas player which would jeopardize his spot at Middlesex which isn't what he wanted to do. Still lives in Australia and plays club cricket here every season. Averaged 54 opening the batting in Sydney First Grade with 3 hundreds this season just gone.
Still has a big Australian accent with lots of mates here, nice guy too.
Sammy Robson has done well in the last two club seasons and would definitely have been selected for NSW's last season - if he wanted to make himself available.
However, when he went to England four years ago, his club record was nothing to get excited about....and he wasn't going to leap frog Katich, Jacques and Hughes in the 2008/09 NSW line up. Watson headed to NSW soon after as well. So Robson was up against it at that time.
Nowadays, he is a better player and would be in contention for an Oz cap - if he played FC cricket in Oz.
Playing cricket professionally as "local" player rather than a foreign player is evidently more important to him. Fair enough too, because there are no guarantees that he will make it as a test player for either Australia or England, whereas he has a lucrative County career sown up for the next 12 years.
Who can blame him?
In his shoes, I would do the same.
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Playing cricket professionally as "local" player rather than a foreign player is evidently more important to him. Fair enough too, because there are no guarantees that he will make it as a test player for either Australia or England, whereas he has a lucrative County career sown up for the next 12 years.
Who can blame him?
This is a very valid point - his game is not suited to the biff bash stuff particularly and there is a lot better living in playing Championship cricket here than there is in State cricket in Aus, so unless he considers himself a dyed in the wool Aussie, he's made a sensible decision. After all, at 20, how can he really tell where he might have a better chance to play Test cricket in five or six years time!
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This is a very valid point - his game is not suited to the biff bash stuff particularly and there is a lot better living in playing Championship cricket here than there is in State cricket in Aus, so unless he considers himself a dyed in the wool Aussie, he's made a sensible decision. After all, at 20, how can he really tell where he might have a better chance to play Test cricket in five or six years time!
He's nearly 24.
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Carberry - a 32 year old with a FC average of 43?
Ahead of Chris Rogers? Average 50.16
We might be desperate, but we haven't bottomed out just yet.
Root? Yep, grant you that one. Will be a class player.
Weren't we talking about Sam Robson. If Rogers was English, he would have already got a lot of caps. I thought we were saying that Sam Robson will qualify next year, and he definitely wouldn't come in and replace Compton.
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Go read page 10.
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Are you talking to me mate, if you are I suggest you go and read page 10. 'Chris Rogers has already said he wants to play for England'. Well Chris Rogers doesn't want to play for England otherwise he wouldn't have been picked for the Aussie side. I read that as [Chris Rogers has already said that Sam Robson wants to play for England] (being team mates and all).
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Vic Nicholas was replying to Buzz's claim that any one of the next in line for an England spot - "Joe Root, Michael Carberry and a few others" - would walk into the current Australian team, and refuting it by implying Rogers' first class average is considerably better than Carberry's and that he probably wouldn't get in ahead of him.
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But its all irrelevant anyway because that wasn't the point that was being made anyway! Listen mate, lets not argue and derail the topic. Chris Rogers would probably be closer than 7th in line to open for England, however he won't get close to the team because he's committed to playing for Australia. Sam Robson would probably be closer than 7th in line to open for England on 'current' form, nothing else but won't because he hasn't qualified yet. Vic makes a good point, but I think the thread has got lost in translation a little bit, lets move on!
Edit: Apologies mate, I've re-re-read and see what you mean!
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:) All good, pal.
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I suspect a close series I don't know why bar there openers and top order and a spinner there not much in it really
I rate the Australia attack I think potentially minus the spinner there not much in it.
Batting well that's e difference only currently clarke would get into England top order I suspect
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He's nearly 24.
which means four years ago when he came over to play for Middlesex he was....erm...
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the spinner is a massive advantage for england. but apart from that, both teams are not far apart. if KP comes in, then i would give england the advantage in batting
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The teams ARE far apart.
Australia will field an excellent three pronged pace attack that will cause England some problems.
But that is where it ends.
Even if by some chance England are (occasionally) dismissed for sub 200 scores, the Australian batting line up without the ballast of Hussey will be toppled for less.
I watch this series with no expectations.
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http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/punter-would-never-say-never-to-ashes-comeback-20130529-2nam4.html (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/punter-would-never-say-never-to-ashes-comeback-20130529-2nam4.html)
These articles will keep cropping up right until the first test.
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The teams ARE far apart.
Australia will field an excellent three pronged pace attack that will cause England some problems.
But that is where it ends.
Even if by some chance England are (occasionally) dismissed for sub 200 scores, the Australian batting line up without the ballast of Hussey will be toppled for less.
I watch this series with no expectations.
[/quote
Vic lets be honest you do really I have never meet a Aussie who hasn't even with the turgid batting line up
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I am not sure I understand that last post?
Are you saying I do have expectations? Like, of the positive kind?
I may be many things PC, but delusional is not one of them.
I do not know anyone in Oz who is a cricket fan who honestly think we are a chance of winning any more than one test this series. We will be lucky to even achieve that.
Not getting slaughtered would be a positive result.
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Vic - I am not sure the teams are that far apart.
here are the Eng top order batting averages for 2012/13
England's batsmen in Tests since Jan 2012
Batsman Tests Runs Average Strike rate 100s/ 50s
Alastair Cook 20 1656 47.31 42.84 6/ 3
Jonathan Trott 20 1486 42.45 44.78 3/ 9
Kevin Pietersen 16 1138 42.14 63.46 3/ 5
Matt Prior 20 1131 43.50 55.60 1/ 8
Ian Bell 19 898 32.07 37.12 1/ 7
Nick Compton 9 479 31.93 34.68 2/ 1
Joe Root 6 424 42.40 42.57 1/ 2
Jonny Bairstow 8 341 31.00 54.82 0/ 3
these numbers are hardly aweinspiring. The suggest an average innings score of about 285 which wont win you many games.
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285 will win you most games against this current Oz batting line up.
If Hussey was still around, we may have been a sneaky chance, but as it stands, none.
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clarke is in the form of his life and i expect watson to do well. i expect the australian batsmen to do as well as the english line up. i think this ashes is going to be close (contrary to popular belief). and if all 3 fast bowlers are in form and england is without kp (or a struggling kp), then i would favour an upset
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How the Oz top 4 deal with the swinging ball will be interesting. If they can get that right they've got a decent shout at winning a test or two.
As an England fan, it'd be great if we can get someone like Anderson or Onions bowling at Clarke when the ball is still new.
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how Australia handle the swinging ball is the key. The last couple of Ashes series in England have come down to 1 or 2 sessions where the ball was swinging and the Aussies couldn't handle it. Looking forward to a good contest.
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i expect watson to do well.
Based on?
The man has hardly made a run in two years...
Clarke is the man.
Knock him over, and Australia will struggle to make a competitive total.
Fail to get him in that first 30 minutes - and you are almost resigned to him going on to a big score.
England have Cook, Trott in that category, with Bell and Prior not too far behind.
I do not see how this can be anything other than a comfortable English victory.
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based on the IPL and his ambition and desire to prove himself
clarke will be top dog as usual.
as for england, dont see trott doing too well. cook will be the main wicket. and like i mentioned earlier, depends on kp
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Based on the IPL? Oh dear...
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THINK WE'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE. bUT wATTO SAYS HE SHOULD BE OPENING SO....
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Also Trott averages 86 against the Aussies, I think he'll be fine.
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Also Trott averages 86 against the Aussies, I think he'll be fine.
Kevin Pietersen once averaged a 130 in ODI cricket and Mike Hussey once averaged 80 odd in Tests.
The stats will level out for Trott.
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Kevin Pietersen once averaged a 130 in ODI cricket and Mike Hussey once averaged 80 odd in Tests.
The stats will level out for Trott.
Trott is my favourite test cricketer leave him alone averages both 49 in first and 2nd innings for a lad many though was not up too it the guy is world class...
every team needs a Trott he would get in any team in the world
His new ashes bats are belters too :D
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based on the IPL and his ambition and desire to prove himself
So you're comparing Test Cricket in English conditions, to 20/20 on Indian flat tracks
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based on his form, class etc. it has nothing to do with conditions...more to do with his desire to do well
and by the way he scored 135 in the first warm up game.
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Gower's take on the Aussie Ashes team...... when asked if the Ashes was a clash of culture!
"I'm tempted to say, how can you have a clash of cultures when you're playing against a country with no culture?"
Let the games begin!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22766693 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22766693)
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Looks like Clarke's dodgy back is playing up already...
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based on his form, class etc. it has nothing to do with conditions...more to do with his desire to do well
and by the way he scored 135 in the first warm up game.
What a comment! Based on this comment alone any future posts by you should be ignored.
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"I'm tempted to say, how can you have a clash of cultures when you're playing against a country with no culture?"
I'm tempted to say, well, that'd be England's influence ;)
I like how he paints all Australian cricket fans as boozed-up neanderthals. I've seen enough of the Barmy Army o understand where that influence has come from :D
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What a comment! Based on this comment alone any future posts by you should be ignored.
for the world class players, its more to do with the hunger. if they want something badly, they will achieve it despite all the odds.
anyway we will see after the ashes if the comments were right or not
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I'm tempted to say, well, that'd be England's influence ;)
I like how he paints all Australian cricket fans as boozed-up neanderthals. I've seen enough of the Barmy Army o understand where that influence has come from :D
I'm tempted to say that its all a little tongue in cheek! As I said, time to let the fun and games commence! I love the Ashes banter!
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And me using the emoticons is recognition of that fact, and giving some back ;) Heh heh
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Yeah Yeah I know mate, you lot are horrible fans though, unfit to grace a sporting stadium ;)
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We learned from the best!
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Trott is my favourite test cricketer leave him alone averages both 49 in first and 2nd innings for a lad many though was not up too it the guy is world class...
every team needs a Trott he would get in any team in the world
His new ashes bats are belters too :D
Any side excluding the Proteas, we've got Hashim :D
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Fawad Ahmed's been added to the Australia A squad for 2 matches before the Ashes, with the bill/visa allowing him to play to be passed before the first test seemingly nailed on!
I think you play him ahead of (Insert Ramdomised Aussie Spinner) and give him a good chance.
He's not been tested, but has a bit of FC experience and a bit of mystery as there isn't that much footage around of him as far as I'm aware.
Would much rather see a leggie up against england than an offie, unless it's Steve O'Keefe, which is extremely unlikely!
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Absolute disgrace, it shouldn't happen. It's not fair on us blah blah blah.
There, that's the token response out of the way.
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Right now I would go....
1. Hughes
2. Watson
3. Rogers
4. Clarke
5. Khawaja
6. Warner
7. Haddin
8. Starc
9. Copeland
10. Pattinson
11. Siddle
12. Ahmed
Get the extra "rest the seamer overs" out of Watson and Clarke.
Ideally I would want Ahmed in the starting 11, but going by the CT pitches a spinner doesn't really matter currently.
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I don't get the circle jerk over Fawad Ahmed. The guy took 16 wickets in three games for Victoria, which isn't bad. But his first class record in Pakistan is p!ss poor (14 wickets in 8 matches at more than 32 per wicket), which is worrying given their pitches should be favourable to spin.
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Right now I would go....
1. Hughes
2. Watson
3. Rogers
4. Clarke
5. Khawaja
6. Warner
7. Haddin
8. Starc
9. Copeland
10. Pattinson
11. Siddle
12. Ahmed
Get the extra "rest the seamer overs" out of Watson and Clarke.
Ideally I would want Ahmed in the starting 11, but going by the CT pitches a spinner doesn't really matter currently.
Would you not want, say, one of the seamers who is actually in the squad ahead of Copeland?
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Not at all, look how successful he's been in English conditions this year.
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Not at all, look how successful he's been in English conditions this year.
he has done alright in division 2, yes. But since he is not in the squad he remains unlikely to make the team!
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Yeah, who i'd like to see and who they actually pick will be way off.
Hadin hundred yest v Scotland, bit of form! Also the kook sponsored players showing off the new gear!
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Any side excluding the Proteas, we've got Hashim :D
I'd take Amla too. Absolute class.
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Does anyone else feel this could be one of the dullest ashes in history?
Australia currently firing blanks and struggling in all aspects of cricket. Not helpful of the back of their management issues etc. I would also say the calls for Ponting to come back smacks of desperation. However, these stories are usually made up by the English media. But no avoiding the fact they aren't playing well, bowled out by Ind for 68. Been looking quite poor in the test arena and really struggling to produce talented to played to fill the positions of Ponting and co
England on the other hand, would appear to be lacking an opening, with Cook not on top form (hopefully will hit form in the CT), with KP lacking fitness and likely to struggle on his return. A lack of a middle order Bell, Bairstow, Taylor and Prior seriously lacking form. And then finally depending on which bowlers turn up for England, as we have seen England bowlers blow very hot and cold
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Does anyone else feel this could be one of the dullest ashes in history?
Australia currently firing blanks and struggling in all aspects of cricket. Not helpful of the back of their management issues etc. I would also say the calls for Ponting to come back smacks of desperation. However, these stories are usually made up by the English media. But no avoiding the fact they aren't playing well, bowled out by Ind for 68. Been looking quite poor in the test arena and really struggling to produce talented to played to fill the positions of Ponting and co
England on the other hand, would appear to be lacking an opening, with Cook not on top form (hopefully will hit form in the CT), with KP lacking fitness and likely to struggle on his return. A lack of a middle order Bell, Bairstow, Taylor and Prior seriously lacking form. And then finally depending on which bowlers turn up for England, as we have seen England bowlers blow very hot and cold
Dull? For all those reasons you mention, I think it'll be cracking! Might not be the standard of cricket we got in 05, but there's no great difference in strengths between the 2, certainly with England not hitting any great form it looks quite close, and if the Aussie quicks get going it'll be interesting!
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Pattinson will be pretty key, in some good form today rolling Scotland, 4/20 in tenish overs
Still would like
Cowan
Rogers
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Wade
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
Starc
Lyon
Won't happen however.
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And still no mention of the bowler who England will really struggle against.... Jackson Bird.. Aussies secret weapon
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And still no mention of the bowler who England will really struggle against.... Jackson Bird.. Aussies secret weapon
Correct me if I am wrong but i thought he is out of selection cause of a injury?
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Correct me if I am wrong but i thought he is out of selection cause of a injury?
He is in the squad and in the UK so lets see hey... Flying under the radar
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I honestly think england are gonna smack him around. He debuted against a struggling sri lanka. So let's see what he can do i guess.
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He s the only Aussie moving it late off the seam.. I like his style... I have a quiet $50 that says he will be a handful ;)
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Who cares really as most in Australia could not give a rats (No Swearing Please) about the great game anymore as it has been dismantled by the incompetent management at Cricket Australia. England 5-0
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Agreed with Jackson Bird I believe he will flourish in the English conditions
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Agree that Jackson Bird must play from the first test.
Has the height and the seam/swing movement to be a weapon in England.
Pattinson should do well too.
The batting is a disaster regrettably.
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Don't get me wrong I'm a big Jackson Bird fan i just think he isn't going to do what Australia are expecting him to do.
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with KP lacking fitness and likely to struggle on his return.
Dont rule him out even with injury. He can be a freak of nature sometimes!!!!
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Don't get me wrong I'm a big Jackson Bird fan i just think he isn't going to do what Australia are expecting him to do.
Jackson Bird bowls 81-84 mph?
Praveen Kumar who was 77-80mph did well back in 2010.
Bird's considerably taller, so there's no reason why he won't be successful.
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The key to Jackson Birds bowling is he uses the lost art of the cutter... Rolling the fingers across the seam and getting the ball to move off the wicket.. Much harder to play than swing
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Jackson Bird bowls 81-84 mph?
Praveen Kumar who was 77-80mph did well back in 2010.
Bird's considerably taller, so there's no reason why he won't be successful.
Oh I'm not saying he won't be but for me i don't think he is gonna be the 'secret weapon' Australia are hoping for. I hope to be wrong.
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Oh I'm not saying he won't be but for me i don't think he is gonna be the 'secret weapon' Australia are hoping for. I hope to be wrong.
Ok fair enough mate
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He looks a decent but unremarkable seamer to me...but then, so did Terry Alderman and Carl Rackemann in 1989! If he had a bit more experience in English conditions, I could actually see where people are coming from - he certainly gets the ball to talk - but I wonder if he might struggle to get his lengths quite right. I'm also not sure how he makes the test side over Pattinson, Starc, Siddle and Harris!
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Oh I'm not saying he won't be but for me i don't think he is gonna be the 'secret weapon' Australia are hoping for. I hope to be wrong.
It's only my opinion.. I'm not talking for all of Australia haha :D
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Rumours in the evening standard of Clarke being out for the Ashes...
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Rumours in the evening standard of Clarke being out for the Ashes...
If that is the case then we may as well send over the RCC U/15's to play for the ashes
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If he had a bit more experience in English conditions...
He plays for Tasmania. You can't get conditions closer to English than there!
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Warner displays his professionalism and dedication to the cause:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/cricket3a-david-warner-in-hot-water-over-alcohol-related-incid/4749762 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-12/cricket3a-david-warner-in-hot-water-over-alcohol-related-incid/4749762)
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He allegedly punched Joe Root. He's nearly had as many infractions as runs!
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He plays for Tasmania. You can't get conditions closer to English than there!
Do Tasmans generally whinge, get passive aggressive in queues and drink warm beer?
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Bird will always get a look in if the aussies go with this rotation caper again. Plus Harris will break down midway in the 1st test he plays.
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Do Tasmans generally whinge, get passive aggressive in queues and drink warm beer?
Dunno mate, but apparently they've got the inbreeding thing down. So they share that :D haha
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He allegedly punched Joe Root. He's nearly had as many infractions as runs!
the things people will do to get Punter into a fourth Ashes losing XI...
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They've announced Haddin is the number one gloveman as it stands now.
overall they've done well with the squad imo. I cant stand Warner and would love Rogers come in and excell in the opening spot.
Rogers
Cowan
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Wade
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
Starc
Lyon
For mine, however Warner will open in Rogers spot.
Its starting to come together with Warner almost certainly wont be a starter
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Less of the crack at taswegians!!! I seem to remember a bloke called Ricky something or other playing quite well last season in bathe shield etc!!!!
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So, when will Hughes be dropped for Ponting?
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Hughes looking very dodgy at the minute, out played by this young lad Nic Maddinson 181 off 143 today and 113* off 63 last week, anyone know much about him?
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Maddinson used to be sponsored by laver and wood he was identified very early
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Maddinson used to be sponsored by laver and wood he was identified very early
That is factually incorrect.
Chris Lynn was sponsored by L&W.
Maddinson was signed by Gray Nicolls very early in the piece.
Maddinson has a conventional technique, but an unconventional approach to opening the innings. Goes for big shots very early and keeps playing them. If he can learn to tough it out when the ball is doing a bit, he will become an excellent test batsman.
The boy is a super talent. Just needs to mature.
The Dude
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... Nic Maddinson 181 off 143 today and 113* off 63 last week, anyone know much about him?
At one point was the youngest batsman to score a century on debut for NSW (since overtaken by Kurtis Patterson, who became the youngest ever century scorer in Shield history in his only match to date).