Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: richthekeeper on May 22, 2014, 08:12:03 AM
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Posted his best ever FC figures of 13-94 in Worcs' recent game against Essex.
This prompted Michael Vaughan to tweet:
https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/469038348318040064/photo/1
The backlash from Ajmal's people on twitter has been quite amusing.
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Ha ha some of those comments are ridiculous.
On the subject of Ajmal's arm though - how the hell can that be legal, it's almost 90 degrees!
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spend some time reading the below (there are about 4 articles)
As I have posted elsewhere, I believe there are massive issues with throwing in cricket and it is just as important to sort out cheating in all its forms, rather than just spot fixing.
http://downatthirdman.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/crickets-jerks-angles-and-extensions-or-not-throwing-a-tantrum/ (http://downatthirdman.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/crickets-jerks-angles-and-extensions-or-not-throwing-a-tantrum/)
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Will get blown up into a racial issue again, they should have stamped it out with murali initially instead of allowing him to continue so Sri lanka could be competitive.
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I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.
All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.
I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.
I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?
Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.
Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.
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Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.
Bang on - if Ajmal had only got 1/2 wickets then this wouldn't even make Twitter
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The problem isn't that bowlers chuck, it's that the authorities are to scared to do anything about it.
The sooner they become firmer and adopt a zero tolerance policy the better.
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opinions about Vaughan aside, I'm sure any bowler who was captured on a photograph with a 90 degree bent arm would be publicly discussed
there are a number of people on twitter who make it their business to highlight "interesting" actions
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To be honest I'm a life long Worcs fan... so as long as he keeps getting wickets, I'm quite happy how he does it haha!
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I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.
All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.
I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.
I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?
Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.
Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.
Vaughan isn't the issue here.
the issue here is that there are a large number of bowlers around the world who are chucking it, not bowling it. This isn't a racist comment. In England because of the way we are, guys with unusual actions don't make it beyond first class cricket. There are loads of terrible actions in club cricket - we have one at our club - he bowls nicely most of the time, but his effort ball is a massive throw. I am hugely uncomfortable about it and have raised it several times...
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If you are playing at international level, and are pictured representing your country with a 90 degree bend in your arm immediately before it straightens, no matter how many wickets you have, you deserve every bit of scrutiny that you come under. And there are plenty of photos of Ajmal with his arm in that position, plus other "pitchers" in the IPL. Hell, I could bowl spin if I could bowl it like that.
As someone who has had club level batsmen question my action (but interestingly never umpires, and I've played with County level professional umpires standing, nor county level batsmen) it is always a tricky topic.
Fundamentally though, I don't know how you can not look at these photos and the volumes of match footage and not draw the conclusion that there are a significant number of "bowlers" in cricket that simply are not.
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The problem isn't that bowlers chuck, it's that the authorities are to scared to do anything about it.
The sooner they become firmer and adopt a zero tolerance policy the better.
I think it is dangerous for authorities (ICC especially) to go on a witch-hunt over actions.
I think the problem lays with certain domestic cricket board's - where their attitude towards the ICC is to get the lawyers involved and make a huge media circus out of it (The 'American' way - which in some cases, is slightly ironic) - instead of dealing with the issue. Sometimes almost eluding to discrimination and, in turn, racism.
I do not want to pick out groups from this - but I think the ICC is a toothless, outdated organisation of bean counters - happily having a free junket on cricket - who do not really want to rock the boat.
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
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I think the issue for Ajmal is he has to chuck his Doosra and so does everyone else. Without it he becomes a decent but not exceptional test bowler. Murali had a genetic defect and Mark Nicholas did a piece in a arm cast with Murali to explain the problem. To me he was a one off and physically couldn't straighten his arm anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBukHqNxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBukHqNxk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ)
Simple answer is to ban the Doosra until somebody can prove it can be bowled legitimately - bizarrely I think only Saqlain managed it but nobody since. Given a Carrom bowl serves a similar purpose I'm surprised many still use the Doosra.
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Cleared under training or laboratory conditions cuts no mustard to me either, people drive a lot differently when they see a police car.
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can we stop with the holier than thou attitude. its really prejudicial and based on half-knowledge.
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Love it. The comments are always more entertaining than the tweets themselves.
I must say, even watching Murali bowl these days, I find it hard to believe that everything is 100% legit and legal.
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Vaughan isn't the issue here.
the issue here is that there are a large number of bowlers around the world who are chucking it, not bowling it. This isn't a racist comment. In England because of the way we are, guys with unusual actions don't make it beyond first class cricket. There are loads of terrible actions in club cricket - we have one at our club - he bowls nicely most of the time, but his effort ball is a massive throw. I am hugely uncomfortable about it and have raised it several times...
Buzz - I agree completely with RichTheKeeper and yourself. The ICC should be doing more to maintain continuity.
I do appreciate the purist view of the bowling action. There is something pure about cricket and its origins which must be safeguarded at all costs. However, I also believe in innovation and performance and pushing the limits to breaking point. Every other sport does this. F1 being prime example. This is a problem with the laws, and the enforcement of them, not with the individual. Everyone is always looking for an 'edge'.
This discussion will rage on far beyond this issue however some questions will always remain;
1. What IS a throw? (Seriously, even now I am not sure the authorities know!)
2. Why does the ICC tip-toe around certain nations and their players?
3. Why do ALL nations not take responsibility for their players (In all aspects of the game)?
4. Why are these players not tested, and the results published, to put everyone's mind at ease? (Though admittedly, they need to find a way of testing video replay as players do change their actions).
5. Why are some players 'punished' and others allowed to continue without testing etc?
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I think cricket - not just international or first class cricket but the club game as well - finds itself at something of a crossroads over the issue of throwing and there is a narrow window in which to do something about it before the game descends into open season for chuckers. If that happens...
In the professional game, I agree entirely that boards are too motivated by self interest - as soon as the bowler who might win matches for them has his action questioned, the race card is played. Really, the likes of Muralitharan, Ajmal, Sennanayaka etc should never have made it to international cricket with the actions that they did. At least in England some have been rooted out, though even with that there are players like James Kirtley who have reached the county game before being called.
Its even worse in the club game. The number of TVL bowlers with dodgy actions (no, not Phil!) is getting increasingly worrying - I umpired twenty overs for our Twos last weekend having made it back early and three of the four bowlers used had noticeable kinks in their actions. But there is no appetite to do anything about it! How the clubs can front up to allowing such lads to bowl in league cricket I have no idea...
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I must say, even watching Murali bowl these days, I find it hard to believe that everything is 100% legit and legal.
Worst thing about Muchichuckalot is that there is video out there of him bowling leg spin and his supposed deformed arm is arrow straight!
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can we stop with the holier than thou attitude. its really prejudicial and based on half-knowledge.
There isn't a "holier than thou" attitude here. You can clearly see chucking (there, I've used the word) going on from Ajmal, Narine, Ashwin, and others, when they are delivering certain balls. The only prejudice here is against illegal actions and throwing (yes, I've used that word too) the ball. Half knowledge would suggest that they were doing something that wasn't fully transparent, and yet there is plenty of widely available footage of what, on any given Sunday, would cause anger and complaint in friendly cricket, let alone international cricket.
So, no we aren't going to stop with it. There is very clear straightening of the arm and it is also more than the 15 degrees "allowed" by the ICC. Or are you telling us our eyes are wrong? I'd suggest there is a good reason why not all bowlers are attempting to bowl Doosras...
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Worst thing about Muchichuckalot is that there is video out there of him bowling leg spin and his supposed deformed arm is arrow straight!
Seemed to straighten ok when he threw a ball in the field too.
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I think cricket - not just international or first class cricket but the club game as well - finds itself at something of a crossroads over the issue of throwing and there is a narrow window in which to do something about it before the game descends into open season for chuckers. If that happens...
In the professional game, I agree entirely that boards are too motivated by self interest - as soon as the bowler who might win matches for them has his action questioned, the race card is played. Really, the likes of Muralitharan, Ajmal, Sennanayaka etc should never have made it to international cricket with the actions that they did. At least in England some have been rooted out, though even with that there are players like James Kirtley who have reached the county game before being called.
Its even worse in the club game. The number of TVL bowlers with dodgy actions (no, not Phil!) is getting increasingly worrying - I umpired twenty overs for our Twos last weekend having made it back early and three of the four bowlers used had noticeable kinks in their actions. But there is no appetite to do anything about it! How the clubs can front up to allowing such lads to bowl in league cricket I have no idea...
Reminds me of a certain West Indian at Kew... He was lightning... With his baseball pitch!
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Botha is still atrocious.
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So, no we aren't going to stop with it. There is very clear straightening of the arm and it is also more than the 15 degrees "allowed" by the ICC. Or are you telling us our eyes are wrong? I'd suggest there is a good reason why not all bowlers are attempting to bowl Doosras...
Not sure I've actually seen a legitimate proper doosra, as opposed to little leg cutters bowlers by spinners; even the likes of Saqlain Mushtaq had some questions about their actions when they sent one the other way!
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Blatant chuck, practice it yourself, put your arm in the position that Ajmal's is then try to bowl without straightening it, impossible to get the speed he gets in my opinion (even if he's been doing it for years and has adapted, he's a special bowler blah blah blah). If he was playing on a Saturday I'd be asking for him to be called!
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Reminds me of a certain West Indian at Kew... He was lightning... With his baseball pitch!
Aye - and it was as near as anything impossible to pick up his short ball because it came from more or less behind his head.
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And let's not forget how Daryl Hair was practically attacked and somewhat ostracised when he called no ball as umpire. Couldn't have filled the umpiring community with confidence to follow suit if they felt an action was questionable.
I still remember seeing people in the crowd holding large, homemade signs reading 'HAIR OR NO HAIR, THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH MURALIS BALLS'
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The game wasn't broadcast live, so ajmal knew the umpires would be too scared to call a no ball so he decided to chuck even more. Doubt any county umpire would have the guts to call him either.
Unless it's called on the international circuit (which I highly doubt) he's free to chuck even more
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Aye - and it was as near as anything impossible to pick up his short ball because it came from more or less behind his head.
When he first came over, played against him and hooked a normal delivery for 4 off him at their place, next one crashed into the side of my helmet about 20mph quicker. I never saw it. Quick arm... Quicker elbow!
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I think it is dangerous for authorities (ICC especially) to go on a witch-hunt over actions.
I think the problem lays with certain domestic cricket board's - where their attitude towards the ICC is to get the lawyers involved and make a huge media circus out of it (The 'American' way - which in some cases, is slightly ironic) - instead of dealing with the issue. Sometimes almost eluding to discrimination and, in turn, racism.
I do not want to pick out groups from this - but I think the ICC is a toothless, outdated organisation of bean counters - happily having a free junket on cricket - who do not really want to rock the boat.
Not sure it's a witch hunt. More like a more fundamental decision; legal, not legal.
It's more a 'clean sweep'.
Frankly, who cares what the countries think. If the ICC did their job then we would not have this problem.
Maybe we need one country to lead and say that anyone with an illegal action CANNOT play in their games/leagues/shores.
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When he first came over, played against him and hooked a normal delivery for 4 off him at their place, next one crashed into the side of my helmet about 20mph quicker. I never saw it. Quick arm... Quicker elbow!
Thats the one. Pitched a couple up normally, as soon as he went for a boundary or two it was like facing Jackie Robinson.
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dangerous area in club cricket, there are many players with suspect actions about, some teams maon, and some teams dont care.
but these bowlers are neither the quickest in the league or the most accurate, so at a non proffessional level, unless its quite very obvious throwing, i believe it should be let be.
as ones you start rouding club cricketer sup thta pay to play, calling them out and saying they cant bowl, there just gonna end up leaving the sport, and very well take afew casual cricketers with them. this will elad to teams folding, or failing to forfill fixtures.
then all the morons that complained about actions, will now have "no game this saturday" to whinge about instead.
cricket is a declining sport at club level, and yet the majority insist on implementing rules that are speed up the decline.
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It's all a far cry from the Harold Rhodes debacle...
Although facing strong competition from bowlers such as Brian Statham and Fred Trueman, Rhodes might have expected to play many more Tests. But doubts about the legality of his bowling action emerged, and in the 1960 season, playing for Derbyshire against the South Africans, he was "called" for throwing – bowling the ball with a bent arm that straightens in the delivery – by the umpire and former Test batsman, Paul Gibb.[1] Later in the 1960 season, he was no-balled again by Gibb, and by Syd Buller. He took 78 first class wickets in the season and took two five wicket innings.
Rhodes was then subjected to a long and detailed examination of his action by MCC committees; he was eventually cleared in 1968 when it was declared that he had a "hyper-extended arm".[1] But by then, his Test career was long gone, although he had continued to bowl successfully for Derbyshire across the 1960s. In the 1961 season he topped Derbyshire's bowling with 101 and took six five wicket innings. Against Oxford University he achieved a hat-trick that year. He took 68 wickets in the 1962 season and took five five wicket innings.
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There isn't a "holier than thou" attitude here. You can clearly see chucking (there, I've used the word) going on from Ajmal, Narine, Ashwin, and others, when they are delivering certain balls. The only prejudice here is against illegal actions and throwing (yes, I've used that word too) the ball. Half knowledge would suggest that they were doing something that wasn't fully transparent, and yet there is plenty of widely available footage of what, on any given Sunday, would cause anger and complaint in friendly cricket, let alone international cricket.
So, no we aren't going to stop with it. There is very clear straightening of the arm and it is also more than the 15 degrees "allowed" by the ICC. Or are you telling us our eyes are wrong? I'd suggest there is a good reason why not all bowlers are attempting to bowl Doosras...
I have seen topics here where people are asked to provide evidence (even by the admin) of their views on threads where they say something negative about some batmaker. would be happy if you could share some evidence to back up what you claimed
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http://www.hilalscricket.com/2007/12/re-murali-debate-causes-stir-herald-sun.html (http://www.hilalscricket.com/2007/12/re-murali-debate-causes-stir-herald-sun.html)
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I have seen topics here where people are asked to provide evidence (even by the admin) of their views on threads where they say something negative about some batmaker. would be happy if you could share some evidence to back up what you claimed
Put "ajmal/narine/ashwin/shillingford/murali/senanayake chucking" in youtube and there's your evidence.
And playing the race card is crap IMO. The reason you don't see many English/Australian spinners with dodgy actions is because the boards don't let them anywhere near a professional cricket pitch until their action has been totally disected to prove whether it is legal or not. Other boards should do the same, but won't.
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Wearable spot sensors on bowling arms under match conditions.. that's the only way to to solve this issue. Otherwise it will be just personal opinions and claims of optical illusions .
People say Murali bowled leg spin with straight arm , then they need to see that video where Mark Nicholas on this issue .
Still not many people doesn't know that Murali was called for throwing when he bowled leg spin as well in 1995 , yeah leg spin . so that doesn't help the cause of throwing claims as well. As far as I know it is impossible to throw when you bowl legs spin.
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Simply not true. Try it. If you flex your elbow you can increase the twisting action through your wrist, so it's very possible...
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I have seen topics here where people are asked to provide evidence (even by the admin) of their views on threads where they say something negative about some batmaker. would be happy if you could share some evidence to back up what you claimed
Watch from 30secs in this video. The replays of the delivery clearly show the elbow straightening, and that's a lot more than 15 degrees.
https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=poAkJP2eOKI
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Watch from 30secs in this video. The replays of the delivery clearly show the elbow straightening, and that's a lot more than 15 degrees.
https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=poAkJP2eOKI (https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=poAkJP2eOKI)
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Morgans ball cannot possibly be within the laws of the game?
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this is what happens to young english spinners with suspect actions:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/nov/06/maurice-holmes-english-murali-spin (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/nov/06/maurice-holmes-english-murali-spin)
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Here's Narine doing the same thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKWk76Anjk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKWk76Anjk)
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this is what happens to young english spinners with suspect actions:
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/nov/06/maurice-holmes-english-murali-spin[/url] ([url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/nov/06/maurice-holmes-english-murali-spin[/url])
This sums things up..
"There will always be the English view, that something different is not necessarily something good," Holmes says. "There are people who tend to take the traditional view that things can and should only be done in one way."
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This sums things up..
"There will always be the English view, that something different is not necessarily something good," Holmes says. "There are people who tend to take the traditional view that things can and should only be done in one way."
That's the ECB view certainly. Most supporters would love to see England with a bona fide mystery spinner who could beguile opposition players. And if they've been proven not to chuck it, even better.
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That's the ECB view certainly. Most supporters would love to see England with a bona fide mystery spinner who could beguile opposition players. And if they've been proven not to chuck it, even better.
Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...
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Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...
(If they where English)
The only way Ajmal or Narine would get near the England team is as batsmen. They wouldn't even be allowed to bowl in the nets.
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Bang on, if Saeed Ajmal played for England I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue...
Couldn't disagree more. I certainly don't want a chucker of a mystery spinner bowling for England. As Maurice Holmes has passed the tests then I don't see why he shouldn't play. Sadly there's a level of sarcasm that forum posting doesn't quite convey...
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Be really interesting to see them bowl with monitors on during a game.
Or just to see them bowling in a short sleeve shirt......
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Couldn't disagree more. I certainly don't want a chucker of a mystery spinner bowling for England. As Maurice Holmes has passed the tests then I don't see why he shouldn't play. Sadly there's a level of sarcasm that forum posting doesn't quite convey...
If you read the Holmes story, it is actually quite sad.
It can go completely the other way (Excuse the pun) if testing is not used 'in the spirit of the game' so to speak.
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One does question whether all boards test to the same level. To me it sounds like the ECB/CA are pretty rigorous, maybe too much, but maybe the Asian boards (and SA with Botha) aren't? I could see how it wouldn't be in their interests, particularly with spinning decks. That's not having a pop at them, it's just that I find it odd that an English cricketer who possibly has a legitimate action can be hounded out of the game while an overseas can just walk in and possibly bowl with an arm beyond degrees. I am pretty certain that if the ECB try to investigate Ajmal, it won't go down well!
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I am not blindly going to defend Ajmal or Vaughan for this. Ajmal is always going to court controvacy with that action and Vaughan is trying to make some kind of media career for himself - sadly along the same lines as Piers Morgan.
All bowlers in the world bend their elbow to some degree. Most, including the likes of Anderson, Johnson etc, will at times bend it beyond the former 10 degree legal delivery limit.
I would like to remind everyone that it is not illegal to bowl with a bent arm (I bowl with one - though it never straightens and I have been cleared twice in my career) However, it is illegal to straighten it further than 15 degrees.
I have no problem with people who have 'strange' actions. No-one would mind if someone bowled with Ajmal's action and it was easy to hit back over the pavilion for 6. Personally, I have been called, but never in any HCPL, Middx or Surrey Champs game, but in a TVCL game. In my view, the difference is I took maybe 1 or 2 wickets a game at top level and blocked up an end. In the TVCL, I take 40+ wickets a season - suddenly the opposition/umpires/spectators think you are doing something naughty. Although my trivial pursuit for glory is at a level Ajmal may never bother himself at again, the situation is relevant. Would people really care if he wasn't taking wickets?
Regardless of whether we think it is a throw, or whether it is not, unless players are submitted for tests to prove conclusively that they do, or do not, throw it - it is very difficult to tell, without state-of-the-art-technology, whether laws have been broken.
Once again, I think this should be seen as an irresponsible bit of reporting by Vaughan - just like his handling of the Trott affair - and leave it at that.
Who were you cleared by and how ? And why twice ?
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Who were you cleared by and how ? And why twice ?
First time, It was a bit like the Maurice Holmes thing. In 2001, I was sent by Hants Academy to Bath Uni for tests. They said I bowl with a bent arm but it does not straighten for the off-break/arm ball/over-spinner. They said the quicker ball was right on the 10 degree limit through - and this is the one people think I throw.
Second time, I was called in the TVCL so I arranged a sight test with Ian Gould (For my own piece of mind). He watched me bowl 20 overs in one innings and said "You certainly do not throw it - I don't know what people are moaning about" - and made some reference to some international bowlers...
I am sure the process at test level is much more rigorous but the 1st set seemed very serious to me at the time
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Interesting stuff. Always wondered how they did it. So you must have been good for Hampshire to spend all that money and time on you. What happened ? How many games did you play for Hampshire ?
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Interesting stuff. Always wondered how they did it. So you must have been good for Hampshire to spend all that money and time on you. What happened ? How many games did you play for Hampshire ?
Academy! Nah. I was reasonably good - played for England Schoolboys. Was there at the same time as Tom Burrows and a few others - was only for a year.
The tests - I wasn't the only one. About 3 or 4 of us 'youngsters'.
Was only in the academy for 1 year. The following year went to Somerset academy and then after a year there caught meningitis. That was my 'first class' career done. :)
I am sure everyone has their own story about being in a football/rugby/football academy etc.
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Bit of bad luck then by the sounds of it ? What year were you at Somerset then ? I was playing for the board x1 back then so would have come across you for sure.
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Bit of bad luck then by the sounds of it ? What year were you at Somerset then ? I was playing for the board x1 back then so would have come across you for sure.
Sent you a PM mate - otherwise we are in danger of taking the threat off topic.
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And let's not forget how Daryl Hair was practically attacked and somewhat ostracised when he called no ball as umpire. Couldn't have filled the umpiring community with confidence to follow suit if they felt an action was questionable.
I still remember seeing people in the crowd holding large, homemade signs reading 'HAIR OR NO HAIR, THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH MURALIS BALLS'
I agree with this. The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali tells you that he was right to call him. Botha was banned from bowling for South Australia in the Sheffield Shield last year after he started chucking it again. And has anyone seen Sachithra Senanayake bowl? He's possibly the worst of the lot!
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I agree with this. The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali tells you that he was right to call him. Botha was banned from bowling for South Australia in the Sheffield Shield last year after he started chucking it again. And has anyone seen Sachithra Senanayake bowl? He's possibly the worst of the lot!
Couldn't be more wrong.
ICC changed it because they found out most of the bowlers are bending their arms up to that limit, even the likes of Mcgrath and Lee if I remember correctly.
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the 15 degree limit was brought in because that was the limit of flex that the human eye could pick up without slow motion technology.
It was triggered by Murali (and Brett Lee and Shoab Acktar) and far less so McGrath - they tested McGrath because he had what was viewed as a totally pure action - and found there was a certain amount of flex in his bowling (not close to 15 degrees though, from memory)
Regardless - there are a number of bowlers chucking the ball in cricket and I don't believe that is fair - there are far better ways to even the contest between bat and ball (like faster bouncier pitches) before we allow people to throw, which is actually dangerous at high speeds because it is much harder to pick up line and length than a true action
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I agree that there is no place for cheats and chuckers but sometimes you have to sit back think about he practicality of the law / rule that puts people in this bracket!! I am a bowler and have never tried to chuck/throw etc but I do sometimes wonder why all the restrictions for bowlers? No bouncers, no chucking...
I had once heard a Canadian player complain about playing in provincial tournament as the pitches were not too good and they did not have enough time to adapt. My point was you represent canada, you are atleast better than all the other players in canada who are not up there playing at your level so it should be easier for you.... point being if you are a half decent batsman then forget about what the bowler is doing and focus on your batting...moment we fail we start making excuses, what will you do if a bowler could bowl like Ajmal or Murali without chucking? ok there isn't one now but there might be one if future...
People in baseball hit huge homeruns to what we would call chucking in cricket. There is no rule about what a batting stance should look like or you won't get runs for a straight drive if your elbow isn't high etc...in other sports too, that i can think of, there are no rules around how your are expected to do whatever is needed with putting limits on your body...tell Usain bolt to run with his legs being allowed to come up to a certain angle etc...
Again cheats should not be allowed to play and we should not be scared of calling them out but what makes the rule that make them a cheat rational?
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Couldn't be more wrong.
Biomechanical studies in 2004 showed Murali straightened his arm by up to 14 degrees when he bowled the doosra. Under the rules at the time, spinners could extend their arms to five degrees. For the sake of fairness, detailed analysis at the same time of the bowling actions of the likes of Lillee, Trueman, Hadlee, Ambrose, Imran Khan, Botham and Allan Donald also showed they were just over the five degree rule. The ICC then changed the law soon after to 15 degrees. I couldn't be more wrong? I suppose you call that a coincidence?
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Biomechanical studies in 2004 showed Murali straightened his arm by up to 14 degrees when he bowled the doosra. Under the rules at the time, spinners could extend their arms to five degrees. They then changed it soon after to 15 degree. I couldn't be more wrong? I suppose you call that a coincidence?
You said
"The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali"
That's wrong , it was in fact done to accommodate most of the other bowlers , otherwise players like Lee , Mcgrath were in danger of getting called for throwing.
I think Lee was extending something like 15 degrees while McGrath was 12-13 degrees (Don't quote me on those numbers , just from the memory.)
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i know a lad well who plays for cheshire at under 15's, he is now not allowed to bowl in county games until is action is cleared and it is getting tested in a match next week which im playing in. First thing the coaches suggested was to see if he would 'change his action' taking away all the talent he has in my opinion. Im not sure if he'll be less or more than 15% but will be interesting to find out
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Biomechanical studies in 2004 showed Murali straightened his arm by up to 14 degrees when he bowled the doosra. Under the rules at the time, spinners could extend their arms to five degrees. For the sake of fairness, detailed analysis at the same time of the bowling actions of the likes of Lillee, Trueman, Hadlee, Ambrose, Imran Khan, Botham and Allan Donald also showed they were just over the five degree rule. The ICC then changed the law soon after to 15 degrees. I couldn't be more wrong? I suppose you call that a coincidence?
haha " Lillee, Trueman, Hadlee, Ambrose, Imran Khan, Botham" had their actions analysed like Murali's was?
You cannot tell from a 2d video let alone a 2d still image if anyone is "chucking" it or not.
i know a lad well who plays for cheshire at under 15's, he is now not allowed to bowl in county games until is action is cleared and it is getting tested in a match next week which im playing in.
Tested in a game? How?
Questions will always be asked of players with kinks in their elbows as they bowl.
Also the wickets at New Road this year have been perfectly prepared for their attack.
Also mystery spinner? no mystery in them they just turn the ball both ways right?
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Tested in a game? How?
i think he is being videoed in the game so he bowls as he usually would but this is just my understanding
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You said
"The fact that the ICC changed the rule to allow for 15 degrees to accommodate Murali"
Yes. Do you really think it's a coincidence that Murali was delivering his doosra in testing from 14 degrees and the figure the ICC just happened to go with as acceptable was 15? Come on.
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Interesting how it's been brought up about different countries and how they look at their bowlers. When I was younger I fell away in the delivery stride, and my bowling arm would go past the perpendicular (I bowled massive in swingers as my arm would naturally be pushing the ball towards fine leg due to it being past the perpendicular). This would also give the illusion of a bent arm. I was lucky (unlucky?) enough to be in emerging players squads so was filmed/coached lots. Due to the illusion of my action, it was actually coached out of me. They straightened me up in the delivery stride and made me bowl more "round arm" - not actually round arm at all but it feels that way when your bowling arm is used to pushing down leg. Anyways they chaned me completely and now my bog standard ball is the out swinger. I wasn't the only kid who they did this too either. And this all happened before I was even close to the state set up!!!!
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Yes. Do you really think it's a coincidence that Murali was delivering his doosra in testing from 14 degrees and the figure the ICC just happened to go with as acceptable was 15? Come on.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/141558.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/141558.html)
please read the article which includes quotes by Michael Holding. and this is exactly what i was referring to by half knowledge
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I found that article too. However, when the limit for pace bowlers was 10 degrees and guys like McGrath and Pollock were occasionally going to 12... that's a little more than 14 degrees when the limit for spinners was 5. And that was my point. The change was certainly made to accommodate his action more so.
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Interesting to note, most of the chuckers are off-spin bowlers. I see Saeed ajmal, Shane Shillingford and even Ashwin (his action is dubious as well).
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Interesting to note, most of the chuckers are off-spin bowlers. I see Saeed ajmal, Shane Shillingford and even Ashwin (his action is dubious as well).
That's because they can't bowl the doosra without chucking it ;)
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2014/content/current/story/748355.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2014/content/current/story/748355.html)
Lol
Suprised the pcd has approached the forum owners....
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In an update - Cricinfo is reporting today that Ajmal has been reported for chucking
ESPNcricinfo @ESPNcricinfo · 8m
Saeed Ajmal has been reported for a suspected illegal bowling action during the Galle Test. Needs to undergo testing within 21 days.
http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81346/saeed-ajmal-reported-for-suspected-illegal-bowling-action (http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81346/saeed-ajmal-reported-for-suspected-illegal-bowling-action)
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Was literally just about to post that Buzz.
It seems there is being a crackdown or at least a "testing time" for the current crop of international spinners. Excellent news in my eyes.
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Something has changed in the land of umpiring. Whereas before, "suspect actions" were being let go, in the last 12 months we have seen multiple occurrences of players being reported.
Why do we think this is? The large volumes of slow mo replays from IPL games? Or are umpires/4th officials becoming braver?
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Why do we think this is? The large volumes of slow mo replays from IPL games? Or are umpires/4th officials becoming braver?
I would say a bit of both. The replays must surely be seen by the umpires. This must then cause the powers that be to ensure umpires are watching closely and if there is anything suspicious then why not report it. Ajmal is still permitted to bowl so there is a case of innocent until proven guilty on this one which is good and 21 days is a reasonable amount of time to investigate what is going on / wrong, whichever the case may be
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Yes, I think the big 3 have taken a decision that enough is enough. Eng/Aus predictably because they have always been the strictest. India I suspect don't get an advantage at the moment and wouldn't be too upset to see it's Asian rivals hindered a bit. Looked to me in the last test that Ashwin only occasionally bowls a ball moving away now and that seems to be a carron ball, not a doosra.
When somebody bowls in long sleeves to hide his arm it has to be dodgy.
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About time they cracked down on it. Becoming a bit of a joke really. I know you can technically have a bent looking arm and not exceed the amount of flex allowed, but its just silly how many have a visibly bent arm.
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About time they cracked down on it. Becoming a bit of a joke really. I know you can technically have a bent looking arm and not exceed the amount of flex allowed, but its just silly how many have a visibly bent straightening arm.
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I was trying to be diplomatic and not label them all chuckers haha
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A few years too late! Better late than never.
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I wonder if it being in the press has brought it to the forefront of match officials as well.
There was the Michael Vaughn/Stuart Broad incident.
I wouldn't say that on twitter though, would be barraged with "It's based on race because you don't have a mystery spinner and are jealous" Sri Lankan fans did it when Senanayke was reported blaming the ECB when the umpires were from other nations. When found guilty they must've all been on holiday together.
Do people think bowlers should do a test one every 2 years on their action? With bowlers who go over/close to 15 degrees having another test within 12 months?
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Do people think bowlers should do a test one every 2 years on their action? With bowlers who go over/close to 15 degrees having another test within 12 months?
Seems a decent idea to me, negates any claims of persecution then too - if everyone has to do it then no one can complain
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Finances/facilities would be a problem I'd assume! Would cost a lot of time and money to do every bowler, without sounding nasty some of the poorer countries may struggle to afford the cost of this testing!
Oh, and thank The Lord he's finally been called for a chucker!
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About time. Worst exponent for me in todays game.
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Jesus christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 13-94!!!!!! thats mental :D
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Finances/facilities would be a problem I'd assume! Would cost a lot of time and money to do every bowler, without sounding nasty some of the poorer countries may struggle to afford the cost of this testing!
Oh, and thank The Lord he's finally been called for a chucker!
If only we had a global cricket committee who sit on a stinking pile of cash :(
We could give it a name so everyone knew it was an international cricket committee.
They could fund it! It would improve and advance the game and if used regularly and wider spread I'm sure the running cats would come down.
After all, how many international bowlers are active, then how many new ones each year?
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Something has changed in the land of umpiring. Whereas before, "suspect actions" were being let go, in the last 12 months we have seen multiple occurrences of players being reported.
Why do we think this is? The large volumes of slow mo replays from IPL games? Or are umpires/4th officials becoming braver?
Because world cricket needed Sri Lanka to be competitive and they needed Murali to achieve that, it was always going to tighten back up when he was retired.
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I used to think Murali was a chucker.. and then I saw this (see below). Now, I humbly accept the fact that in certain cases, "chucking" can be an optical illusion.
part1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBukHqNxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZBukHqNxk)
part2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ)
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FYI the umpire in both recent high profile throwing reports was Ian Gould the former wicket keeper.
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Always liked Gunner, got some bottle!
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FYI the umpire in both recent high profile throwing reports was Ian Gould the former wicket keeper.
I work with Ian 'Gunner' Gould (When he is in the country). Amazing bloke and doesn't stand for any funny business.
He certainly holds respect from everyone I know who knows him... And possibly one of the funniest blokes you will meet.
Can see why he is so popular amongst non-chucking international cricketers.
Him and Marius Erasmus umpiring together... No nonsense.
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Ajmal has been found to have an illegal action and banned.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/current/story/779257.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/current/story/779257.html)
doesnt say a huge amount except all his deliveries are illegal
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No real surprise there then...!
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If all his deliveries were found to be illegal. You have to ask. How did it take so long??
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Surely his wickets his taken should now be void!
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And lets wait for the "(insert team here) struggles to play him so he gets banned" comments, and the lets pick on Pakistan comments.
Bowl properly and don't cheat. How it took so long when Shillingford et al were being banned is beyond me. Worst chucker since Murali is finally banned.
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Awaits Vic nic to tell us all it's a conspiracy by the British empire..........
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Awaits Vic nic to tell us all it's a conspiracy by the British empire..........
Given the testing was done in Brisbane this may be unlikely.
Good that there is finally a crack down on chuckers.
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That's now three for Gouldy this year (Ajmal, Senanayake and Williamson).
Question is; Whos next?! ???
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Just in time for the Aussie test!
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Given the testing was done in Brisbane this may be unlikely.
Good that there is finally a crack down on chuckers.
I thought the testing is now done in Cardiff or Mumbai? I know from the articles I read that the ICC thought the Perth testing centre was perhaps too lenient?. I guess this proves it.
I imagine it's particularly annoying for Worcs opponents this season where Ajmal has almost won games on his own. To still have that kind of bend in the arm even with long sleeves on (to hide it!) was asking for trouble. Spells the end for the Doosra in it's present form I suspect.
When has Gould got Narine?
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Wonder if Ajmal will retire instead of undergo remedial work? Pakistan must be very concerned now.
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Is there anywhere these reports from the analysts can be read, googling seems to suggest Sananayake failed his tests by a good margin.
http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/sachithra-senanayakes-elbow-extends-by-43-degrees-test-reports-deceive' (http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/sachithra-senanayakes-elbow-extends-by-43-degrees-test-reports-deceive')
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I think it's a shame he's been banned. Everything seems to be stacked in the batsmen's favor with shorter boundaries, fielding restrictions, free hits and changing thier bats. A bowler can't get a new ball until a certain amount of overs have been bowled or the umpires deems its out of shape.
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Wonder if Ajmal will retire instead of undergo remedial work? Pakistan must be very concerned now.
It is embarrassing when, and I quote 'All of his deliveries are illegal'.
If it was just the doosra, or the quicker ball, fair enough - genuine mistake or bio-mechanical problem (e.g Marlon Samuels or Kane Williamson) but this is ALL of his deliveries.
That basically says to me that every ball he has bowled is against the rules of cricket...
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I think it's a shame he's been banned. Everything seems to be stacked in the batsmen's favor with shorter boundaries, fielding restrictions, free hits and changing thier bats. A bowler can't get a new ball until a certain amount of overs have been bowled or the umpires deems its out of shape.
I appreciate your point - but 'throwing' is against the rules of the game. Hitting the gym or having thicker bats is not.
Fair play to bowlers for trying new things. I am a bowler and I try my variations. However if it is outside the laws of the game... Surely that cant be tolerated?
Edit: By these new findings, bans etc... Does this mean Graeme Swann is the best spinner of the modern generation, aside from Warne?! Surely not!
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big news as has been said above, because it's not just the doosra delivery, it's all of them
Pakistan are appealing the decision, unless they are successful I just cannot see how it's possible to remodel his action for all deliveries at his age....
Have to say i'm with most on this forum, not because i'm English or because we don't have a mystery spinner, it's because throwing is against the laws of the game
Sadly I have seen it on five separate occasions on Saturdays in League cricket, the umpires do nothing about it,so it's getting into club cricket
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I appreciate your point - but 'throwing' is against the rules of the game. Hitting the gym or having thicker bats is not.
Fair play to bowlers for trying new things. I am a bowler and I try my variations. However if it is outside the laws of the game... Surely that cant be tolerated?
Edit: By these new findings, bans etc... Does this mean Graeme Swann is the best spinner of the modern generation, aside from Warne?! Surely not!
Im sure last time he had his action tested the ICC test said there was something wrong with his elbow. I think his elbow was bent at 9 degrees resting.
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Im sure last time he had his action tested the ICC test said there was something wrong with his elbow. I think his elbow was bent at 9 degrees.
Correct - so his flex limit is therefore 9 through to 24 degrees (15 degrees of flex - which always made his action look bad.)
The testing implies that he has started throwing the ball from more than this level of flex.
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Correct - so his flex limit is therefore 9 through to 24 degrees (15 degrees of flex - which always made his action look bad.)
The testing implies that he has started throwing the ball from more than this level of flex.
Yh his action does look bad
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With most of the other doosra bowlers reported It goes to show it's virtually impossible to bowl one legally.
Hopefully it might stop young bowlers constantly struggling to bowl a mystery ball & make them concentrate on perfecting their stock ball and using f&g
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With most of the other doosra bowlers reported It goes to show it's virtually impossible to bowl one legally.
Hopefully it might stop young bowlers constantly struggling to bowl a mystery ball & make them concentrate on perfecting their stock ball and using f&g
What does f&g mean at your club?
Ours has a new meaning of filth & gash the way our spinners (including myself) bowl! :D
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Flight and Guile.
What's wrong bowling a Carrom Ball - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrom_ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrom_ball)
Can be bowled legally by an off spinner.
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With most of the other doosra bowlers reported It goes to show it's virtually impossible to bowl one legally.
I think you forgot about Saqlain Mushtaq he did bowl a vry good doosra
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Young spinners can also go for a bit of T&B!
The only ball I think an offspinner can bowl that goes the other way legally is possibly the carrom ball.
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Haha, I could definitely be put in that category! Most of our guys note us for our 'selection of patisserie'
Many a time I've trundled in to bowl with mid on pushing an imaginary buffet cart beside me :D
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Young spinners can also go for a bit of T&B!
The only ball I think an offspinner can bowl that goes the other way legally is possibly the carrom ball.
Or bowl an obvious leggie haha
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Young spinners can also go for a bit of T&B!
The only ball I think an offspinner can bowl that goes the other way legally is possibly the carrom ball.
yes, Redders can bowl it pretty well as it's bowled out of the front of the hand with the fingers.
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Young spinners can also go for a bit of T&B!
The only ball I think an offspinner can bowl that goes the other way legally is possibly the carrom ball.
I don't think many club cricketers will have tried the carton yet, let alone perfect it.
I hope they do so I stop seeing a chucker every other week!
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Or bowl an obvious leggie haha
Unless you can bowl a googly. I've only just learned how to bowl genuine leggies now my knee is knackered. All by previous attempts at leg spin turned like an off spin due to the ball coming out the back of my hand. Now I've worked out how to bowl genuine leg spin, I already have a googly in the locker. Think I'm probably going to keep working on it unless this reconstruction works miracles and I can go back to good old fashioned blunt force trauma (trying to bowl as quickly as I can).
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I don't think many club cricketers will have tried the carton yet, let alone perfect it.
I hope they do so I stop seeing a chucker every other week!
*Carrom*
Damn you autocorrect! Or have I just invented a new type of delivery :D
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*Carrom*
Damn you autocorrect! Or have I just invented a new type of delivery :D
The carton ball could be a new delivery, nice to see someone thinking outside the box! :-[
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It must turn square! :)
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It must turn square! :)
;) :D
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He has said he can correct his action! Let's say he does correct it.
Will he still get the turn and wickets he used to?!
It would be really quite awkward if he did not!
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wait a sec, he can correct it? surely that implies he knew there was an issue and carried on regardless?
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wait a sec, he can correct it? surely that implies he knew there was an issue and carried on regardless?
senanayake tried to pull the wool over the testers eyes by changing his action but they rumbled him when they viewed the match footage. Wonder just how Ajmal thinks he can change it without falling into the same trap. Without a cast or extensive remodelling I can't see it being a quick fix. Would love to know how much bend he was measured at.
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Saeed Ajmal does have natural bent in his arm, however, his action test this year is not the same as one tested in 2009, certainly evident from the video footages even. Now if thats due to workload, fatigue muscles et cetera then thats a separate debate.
He said he will remodel and present his medical reports.
ICC is really incompetent, if his action had changed then why did it take so long to get it re-test?
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In the guardian...
The suspended Pakistan off-spinner Saeed Ajmal had an average elbow extension of well over twice the allowable limit during testing of his bowling action in Australia last month.
Ajmal recorded an astonishing 40 degrees with a relatively small standard deviation of 2.5 degrees at the National Cricket Centre in Brisbane, according to a 23-page report on the tests last month. The rules allow for an elbow extension of 15 degrees.
The report says none of the deliveries by Ajmal during the eight overs of testing – some overs were not of the usual six balls – came close to meeting International Cricket Council regulations. During testing, Ajmal bowled off-spin from both over and around the wicket, the doosra, and quicker balls.
That is more extension than a darts player uses.
EDIT:
more details on the testing
The over-by-over testing:
1st: Over the wicket: Average elbow extension 39 degrees
2nd: Over the wicket: 37 degrees
3rd: Around the wicket: 41 degrees
4th: Around the wicket (wide of the crease): 41 degrees
5th: Around the wicket: 42 degrees
6th: Around the wicket, doosra: 40 degrees
7th: Around the wicket, quicker balls: 38 degrees
8th: Over the wicket, quicker balls: 42 degrees
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In the guardian...
The suspended Pakistan off-spinner Saeed Ajmal had an average elbow extension of well over twice the allowable limit during testing of his bowling action in Australia last month.
Ajmal recorded an astonishing 40 degrees with a relatively small standard deviation of 2.5 degrees at the National Cricket Centre in Brisbane, according to a 23-page report on the tests last month. The rules allow for an elbow extension of 15 degrees.
The report says none of the deliveries by Ajmal during the eight overs of testing – some overs were not of the usual six balls – came close to meeting International Cricket Council regulations. During testing, Ajmal bowled off-spin from both over and around the wicket, the doosra, and quicker balls.
And if that isn't chucking, I don't know what is. It's taken far too long for him to be called, given that evidence.
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Do we need to discuss if there needs to be a sort of drugs testing procedure for chucking.
Random tests, tests with short notice?! Most other sports do a crazy amount of testing in various forms, why not test all bowlers for chucking?
Congrats you have passed the test you can now bowl freely for 12 months?!
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Cameras at grounds?
Short sleeves only?
Picking a random few overs in a day to get footage analysed?
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That's fairly massive chucking. He will struggle to be the same bowler at 15 degrees. Do we think some of his success has been the extra chuck? Last tested in 2009, how good was he prior?
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Farcical, 40 degrees for gods sake! I bet some baseball pitchers aren't that bad!
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That's fairly massive chucking. He will struggle to be the same bowler at 15 degrees. Do we think some of his success has been the extra chuck? Last tested in 2009, how good was he prior?
well look at his record before and after he started chucking and that will answer your question...
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Hello lads,
I'd like to get some of your opinions on a post I saw on facebook recently.
"FYI my opinion of the bowlers arm bending issue is that it's idiotic to stop any bowlers from bowling... The ICC are a bunch of tossers. It's a batsman game these days, who cares if a guy wants to stand at the bowlers end and chucks it at 100MPH like a baseball pitcher... As long as it gets to the batsman in a legal fashion so be it.. I think it will open the world of cricket to mate variation and give the bowlers more options which will allow the game to grow... Let the chucker a have their day, create a new style, fast bowling, medium pace, off spin, leg spin and chucking... It's all good bro!! It's a true loss to cricket to not have Ajmal playing.."
my opinion in two words....utter b0ll0cks
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Shows even more how much of a genius Saqlain was. Only doosra bowler never to have had his action questioned.
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It's all Australia's fault, we had him banned cause we are scared of the up coming series.
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Hello lads,
I'd like to get some of your opinions on a post I saw on facebook recently.
"FYI my opinion of the bowlers arm bending issue is that it's idiotic to stop any bowlers from bowling... The ICC are a bunch of tossers. It's a batsman game these days, who cares if a guy wants to stand at the bowlers end and chucks it at 100MPH like a baseball pitcher... As long as it gets to the batsman in a legal fashion so be it.. I think it will open the world of cricket to mate variation and give the bowlers more options which will allow the game to grow... Let the chucker a have their day, create a new style, fast bowling, medium pace, off spin, leg spin and chucking... It's all good bro!! It's a true loss to cricket to not have Ajmal playing.."
my opinion in two words....utter b0ll0cks
Well known talker of rubbish, Jason from Hammer cricket. He just likes the attention mate.
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Was that quoted from Jason of Hammer Cricket?
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That is already a game... It's called BASEBALL!
And would be really dangerous. In cricket you are ALLOWED to bowl at the body, in baseball, you can't (Yes, it happens - usually ends up in a ruck...) - allowing bowlers to throw is idiotic. I have faced a well known pair of med/fast chuckers who bowl in the TVCL and it is cheating - plain and simple. Making a mockery of those who remain within the laws.
If I wanted to play baseball, I would. However I want to play cricket. As a bowler myself, it is my job to get them out, regardless of the laws being changed in favour of the batsmen (not just powerplays or boundary sizes, but introduction of covers!) - no one has 100 wicket seasons anymore. 50 is an incredible effort. That's the game!
Stupid conversation really!
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Was that quoted from Jason of Hammer Cricket?
Well, Cricket store online, so I would say it was Jason.
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Well, Cricket store online, so I would say it was Jason.
I would like to think that it was someone having a joke! A pathetic statement like that is surely used simply to stir up a discussion?