Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: petehosk on June 11, 2014, 02:07:13 PM
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Thought I'd start a new topic for the Test series.
Cook just announced the top 6 as.......
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Assume Prior will be 7.
I suspect it will likely be Woakes or Plunkett to miss out?
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Plunkett in for me, so Woakes will probably play. #MooresOut
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I Presume Woakes will be missing out.
Ballance in the role of 3 will interesting to see, didn't score many in his 1 test, but I remember him getting a jaffa in the 1st innings.
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Seems odd that Ballance will go in at 3 even though he bats at 5 for Yorks and bats below Root. Not totally convinced by it to be honest, but time will tell!
Could just be to keep the left hand - right hand thing going?
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Debut at lords will be nice for the new guys, bet they wont be sleeping much tonight.
I'm going to day 2, anyone else there?
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Ballance at three is an odd one - I like the idea of Root at five - he has tended to play a bit more freely at that spot in Tests, but worry that Gary has been shoehorned into the slot no one else wants rather than the one that is best for him and the team as a whole.
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I Presume Woakes will be missing out.
Ballance in the role of 3 will interesting to see, didn't score many in his 1 test, but I remember him getting a jaffa in the 1st innings.
I thought it would've been Bell or Root at 3.
What number has Ballance been batting in the championship?
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Could just be to keep the left hand - right hand thing going?
Surely a professional team selection committee are smart enough to realise that the only combination they can control with a fixed order in that case is the opening pair...
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Surely a professional team selection committee are smart enough to realise that the only combination they can control with a fixed order in that case is the opening pair...
Got any better thoughts on why they've put him at 3? Because I keep coming up blank...
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Bell should bat at 3 for England. He's our best batsmen and 3 is the hardest slot to fill. I don't know why they would put a new very inexperienced guy in that position.
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I guess we wait and see how he gets on, but gut instinct is that Ballance at 3 is wrong. I'd have gone with Bell personally, though I could see merit in Root batting there too, but Ballance? It's a notoriously hard spot to fill and for me isn't the place you should be cutting your test match teeth
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I guess we wait and see how he gets on, but gut instinct is that Ballance at 3 is wrong. I'd have gone with Bell personally, though I could see merit in Root batting there too, but Ballance? It's a notoriously hard spot to fill and for me isn't the place you should be cutting your test match teeth
the weird thing is, most Test players bat three for their counties save where other international calibre players prevent it (Root, Bell, Trott, Ali and, going back in time, Hick, Ramps, Lamb, Smith, Gower) wich makes it even more odd that the one guy who has never done so is given the task!
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I really hope we go for Woakes over Jordan but can't see it happening.
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Prior
Woakes
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson
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the weird thing is, most Test players bat three for their counties save where other international calibre players prevent it (Root, Bell, Trott, Ali and, going back in time, Hick, Ramps, Lamb, Smith, Gower) wich makes it even more odd that the one guy who has never done so is given the task!
I wonder whether his ability as a shot maker has influenced the decision given that Cook, Robson, Root may deliver turgid starts.
It's a brave choice and I can see the fuzzy logic behind it.
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I wonder whether his ability as a shot maker has influenced the decision given that Cook, Robson, Root may deliver turgid starts.
It's a brave choice and I can see the fuzzy logic behind it.
What about Bell or Ali though? Both of them can play shots and score at a decent rate much like Ballance..
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Can see woakes missing out as he's not quite good enough as a specialist bowler or batsman & Ali has taken the all rounder spot.
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What about Bell or Ali though? Both of them can play shots and score at a decent rate much like Ballance..
Bell fleshes out a very callow middle order by batting four. I like the idea of him playing there. It's just a hunch.
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Can see woakes missing out as he's not quite good enough as a specialist bowler or batsman & Ali has taken the all rounder spot.
Bowling average of 18 so far this season with 16 wickets from 100 overs (going for 293 runs, 28 of them were maidens).
Bowling average of 20 for the lions in the winter with 11 wickets from 83 overs.
Bowling average of 26 last season with 33 wickets from 288 overs.
They're better stats than the majority of English bowlers over the last couple of seasons/tours. When you consider the following as well (hasn't quite got in with the bat yet this season ) :
Batting average of 46.50 for the lions in the winter with 279 runs from 7 innings.
Batting average of 52.50 last season with 683 runs from 19 innings.
Again, better stats than the majority of English batsmen over the last couple of seasons/tours.
He should get in as the 4th seamer in my opinion.
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It's very easy to look at someone's FC stats and use them as the basis of a case for them to play international cricket. But in reality it's not so black and white, some of the best Test players around have had fairly mediocre FC stats whilst some of the best performing players at FC level haven't been able to make the grade at international level.
Woakes has better batting and bowling figures at FC level than Ben Stokes but you'd have to be mad to honestly believe that Woakes is the better of the two. Woakes is yet another low 80s swing bowler that will almost certainly take bags of wickets in the CC but just doesn't quite have that something special to make him international quality.
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Bowling average of 18 so far this season with 16 wickets from 100 overs (going for 293 runs, 28 of them were maidens).
Bowling average of 20 for the lions in the winter with 11 wickets from 83 overs.
Bowling average of 26 last season with 33 wickets from 288 overs.
They're better stats than the majority of English bowlers over the last couple of seasons/tours. When you consider the following as well (hasn't quite got in with the bat yet this season ) :
Batting average of 46.50 for the lions in the winter with 279 runs from 7 innings.
Batting average of 52.50 last season with 683 runs from 19 innings.
Again, better stats than the majority of English batsmen over the last couple of seasons/tours.
He should get in as the 4th seamer in my opinion.
Good point, he has got good stats but as a team without a recognised test spinner I would rather take a more experienced 4th seamer such as plunkett & with Jordan doing well in the odi's can't see how he can be left out. Who would you drop to get woakes in?
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Woakes is a better consistent cricketer than Stokes, but Stokes is more capable of one off brilliance.
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Better hope it's a green top without a front line spinner and warm conditions
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Woakes is 12th man, cricinfo confirmed Robson,Jordan, Ali receiving caps from Gatt.
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Sri Lanka won the toss and stuck England in. Come on Robson!
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Here we go then. A rather different looking England side and I hope that it can match the rebirthed Rugby team...
1 Alastair Cook (capt),
2 Sam Robson,
3 Gary Ballance,
4 Ian Bell,
5 Joe Root,
6 Moeen Ali,
7 Matt Prior (wkt),
8 Chris Jordan,
9 Stuart Broad,
10 Liam Plunkett,
11 James Anderson
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Who's got a link then that us at work can watch it on??
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crictime (dot) com
good decision by SL to bowl first. even if the pitch cracks, Eng have no one who can make use of that.
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Feel sorry for wakes, great player and really deserve his chance
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Two down for 22. Eeee Gads...
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#MooresOut #SackCook #bringKPback
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http://www.coolsport.tv/nfl-hd-stream-2.html (http://www.coolsport.tv/nfl-hd-stream-2.html)
if you click on the button that says 'sky sports 2' you should get the good link i'm on.
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Come on rooty.. Need a ton fella. Cooks woeful again
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Good point, he has got good stats but as a team without a recognised test spinner I would rather take a more experienced 4th seamer such as plunkett & with Jordan doing well in the odi's can't see how he can be left out. Who would you drop to get woakes in?
I'd have him in for Jordan personally.
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Root and Prior proving that they still are deserving of a test place. Let's just hope they continue this through the series and hope it is not just a one off.
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Root, prior, bell and Ali have batted well today.
Cook robson, and ballance played shots and or innings, not quite befitting off a test. But it is only one innings so far.
Is this the first time in 26tests we will go passed 400?
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Well batted root. Nice ton.
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Good stuff from the team, could do with them going on for a while longer in the morning.
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few people eating humble pie this evening over Root and Prior (mine was pretty tasty...)
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few people eating humble pie this evening over Root and Prior (mine was pretty tasty...)
Mine too!
On some occasions, this one included, it's nice to eat the pie than to be proved right!
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Having recovered from my humble pie indigestion. I watched the highlights last night
It was very noticeable how all the English batsmen are standing much taller at the crease than previously - I am not sure who the batting coach is at the moment - but there is a clear technical change.
It will be interesting to see how long the players are able to keep doing that and if it reaps benefits over the longer term.
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To be fair it's a pretty ordinary attack they are facing. What's everyone tipping from here? I will go draw.
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Ive always been a fan of Prior and cant understand why he was out of favour with the white ball cricket for England.
Root, for me, still needs to prove his point. Watching the highlights, I don't think he got many good balls. SL seemed to lose a few yards of pace (there wasn't much to start with) throughout the day and Root got a lot of balls on leg stump.
That's said, I think Root, like Prior, has real heart and is hungry for it!
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Having recovered from my humble pie indigestion. I watched the highlights last night
It was very noticeable how all the English batsmen are standing much taller at the crease than previously - I am not sure who the batting coach is at the moment - but there is a clear technical change.
It will be interesting to see how long the players are able to keep doing that and if it reaps benefits over the longer term.
It was the running that struck me, more than anything.
That and the SL seamers faded noticeably.
Still, some feel good factor can never hurt. Looking forward to Sangakkara batting on this pitch.
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What Root needs now is time in a position, stop the shuffle.
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all out 450, or declare passed 500(as cook has no balls)
sri lanka 2 downby end of play.
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Sorry but what's this nonsense about humble pie?
Prior's dipped his bread vs a clubbie attack. Soon as he faces proper fast bowlers he'll be exposed again.
Joe Root's a limited player. And he's shown he capable of scoring runs in England.
Neither have proven anything thus far.
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Sorry but what's this nonsense about humble pie?
Prior's dipped his bread vs a clubbie attack. Soon as he faces proper fast bowlers he'll be exposed again.
Joe Root's a limited player. And he's shown he capable of scoring runs in England.
Neither have proven anything thus far.
Yawn! Should have known you'd chirp up at some point! Fairly sure that last time I checked you can't score runs against Steyn and Morkel, when you're playing against Kulasekera and Pradeep. Its even fairly difficult to score runs against Ajmal, or Tahir (Snigger), when you're playing against Herath. In fact mate, you can only score runs against what is in front of you! Even your precious South Africans will have bolstered their average against some poor attacks!
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Yawn! Should have known you'd chirp up at some point! Fairly sure that last time I checked you can't score runs against Steyn and Morkel, when you're playing against Kulasekera and Pradeep. Its even fairly difficult to score runs against Ajmal, or Tahir (Snigger), when you're playing against Herath. In fact mate, you can only score runs against what is in front of you! Even your precious South Africans will have bolstered their average against some poor attacks!
Yeah pal we've feasted on England's clubbies for a long time now 😂
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Yeah pal we've feasted on England's clubbies for a long time now
Well there you go bud, runs against England don't mean (No Swearing Please) either then! Won't hear any argument from me about SL being anything other than average! But the fact of the matter is, you can only score runs against whats in front of you! Seeing as England are the 3rd best test team (statistically), behind Aus and SA, surely its right that they shouldn't find scoring runs against those 2 teams easy. No other team has a bowling attack that comes close!
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Sorry but what's this nonsense about humble pie?
Prior's dipped his bread vs a clubbie attack. Soon as he faces proper fast bowlers he'll be exposed again.
Joe Root's a limited player. And he's shown he capable of scoring runs in England.
Neither have proven anything thus far.
Yawn!
How dare we enjoy 2 batsman of the team we support, and batsman we had doubted, scoring runs.
This is definitely accurate because they both came in with England cruising on 700-3 and didn't have to get themselves out of a hole England had batted themselves into.
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Ah Gerry is back!
I was hoping him not posting narrow minded rants about nothing in particular when someone did well would've been a more permenant thing! ;)
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Has anybody else noticed how much Shane Warne repeats himself and talks general rubbish?
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Has anybody else noticed how much Gerry SA repeats himself and talks general rubbish?
This! :D
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Nice to see Broad's whacking it about a bit.
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Stumping was out imo, was clear from stump cam.
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Surely, benefit of the doubt.
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There was doubt, it was clear on stump cam,
oh well what else is new...
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England's attack looks very one dimensional and pretty ordinary.
It's no secret the pitch is pretty benign. Thus negating green top demon Anderson to a bit part roll.
But Jordan is far from bowling quick. More medium fast.
And Plunkett doesn't look like a Test bowler.
As for Ali's spin, read charity/throw down bowling.
Axe Plunkett, get a proper spinner in.
Axe Ali and get Stokes in.
Broad
Anderson
Jordan
Stokes
Panesar/Kerrigan/Tredwell
Would be a far better balanced act and in the long run Finn has to be in the England side.
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Stokes can't even do it at county level at the moment so shouldn't be near the squad yet, needs a bit more time to get into it in my opinion, I hope Woakes gets a game very soon.
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With the youth available at the moment its nice to imagine the possible XI in 5 years time if all players live up to expectations (clearly with some deviation here) :
Cook
Robson
Taylor
Ballance
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Woakes
Broad
(World class spinner please?) / Borthwick
Finn
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What an honour for the Lord's honours board to have Sangakkara's name on it finally.
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Sanga is one of my favourite cricketers ever. I love the way he bats, and I like the way he talks and gives interviews.
He was a little sparky when he was younger, but he seems to be an elder statesman with a real love for the game now.
His interview on Sky today after play was really interesting.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqKvR38CAAAj-tv.png)
Good stuff ,right on the middle stump..
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what should england do now? put the pedal down an send sri lanka in with only a few overs to bat, or bat out the day and set them 350/400 for them to get tomorrow?
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I'd imagine Sri Lanka would be fine chasing 325 or so given the last day to bat
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Sam Robson is technically poor and has average footwork.
You can now see why NSW never selected him.
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Anyone noticed that Robson wears the new style Masuri but without the second bar on the grill below his eyes? Looks a lot better - wonder if he took an angle grinder to it or asked Masuri for a custom version?
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Anyone noticed that Robson wears the new style Masuri but without the second bar on the grill below his eyes? Looks a lot better - wonder if he took an angle grinder to it or asked Masuri for a custom version?
Yeah, he obviously didn't like the new grill.
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England looking all at sea against spin again.
Good on the selectors for not picking a front line spinner ???
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but Ali is going to unleash his new doosra....
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Are we allowed to speculate on the origin of Ballances New Balance?
It's not another product of the general Nottinghamshire area is it?
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Game is pretty much safe for England now, SL will never chase this down. More England bat will give advantage for SL to save the match.
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Game is pretty much safe for England now, SL will never chase this down. More England bat will give advantage for SL to save the match.
But it's typical England, bat too long as usual.
Just wasting time at the moment to allow ballance to score a 100
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Yup agreed. As nice as the ton would be for Balance. Should have come off at 360 ahead and had 15 minutes at the Lankans tonight.
No brave new England here yet!
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Anyone noticed that Robson wears the new style Masuri but without the second bar on the grill below his eyes? Looks a lot better - wonder if he took an angle grinder to it or asked Masuri for a custom version?
The top of the lune masuri has a two bar grill, the helmets below it in the range have a one bar grill.
It will just be a lower model as opposed to a custom.
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LOL this is big farce, I thought only Asian teams put personal records over team's achievements. Good knock by Balance though.
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The top of the lune masuri has a two bar grill, the helmets below it in the range have a one bar grill.
It will just be a lower model as opposed to a custom.
Just checked this on the website and this option is also available with a titanium grill - much better than the 2 bar version
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Even on this track I bet the bowlers were itching to get out this evening. I agree, not brave enough from Cook
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Clarke would have declared a long time ago and given his bowlers half an hour against the Sri Lankans.
I suppose cook would be happy with a draw given the recent results
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Are we allowed to speculate on the origin of Ballances New Balance?
It's not another product of the general Nottinghamshire area is it?
Could possibly be...... How did you come to that conclusion Fattus?
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Could possibly be...... How did you come to that conclusion Fattus?
Was that a GM ripple grip on his bat??
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Was that a GM ripple grip on his bat??
From an icon by the looks of it.
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I wouldn't have declared this evening and had a dart.
the pitch is a road and the Sri Lankans are brilliant chasers and we don't have a match winning spinner.
plus shafting a guy about to make his first ton is insane.
going to be a good game tomorrow if Sanga goes early.
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Well, Ballance has shown he can score runs at test level, and at an unfamiliar batting position.
There is a lot of potential coming through, will be good to see who can carry it on.
Test is in the balance. A good first hour will be vital for either side and the last 10 overs of the day with the new ball will be interesting if SL can be 5/6 down.
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Any captain would have given a guy in his second test the chance to make his debut hundred - he was clearly told he only had to the close of play to do so. No brainer for me - ask Atherton about when he declared with Hick 98 not out in the Ashes. Atherton regrets it to this day and it destroyed Hick's confidence and many of his team mates faith in the captain and the system.
Have a pop at Cook for being cautious if you like; Its not his fault he's not a natural leader and KP dumped on his generosity and faith, but I guarantee that Clarke would have let a Doolan or Marsh get to 100. 100%. I think any self-respecting captain would.
Agree it should be a great final day if England nip a couple out early. Gotta bowl full though...
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Any captain would have given a guy in his second test the chance to make his debut hundred - he was clearly told he only had to the close of play to do so. No brainer for me - ask Atherton about when he declared with Hick 98 not out in the Ashes. Atherton regrets it to this day and it destroyed Hick's confidence and many of his team mates faith in the captain and the system.
Have a pop at Cook for being cautious if you like; Its not his fault he's not a natural leader and KP dumped on his generosity and faith, but I guarantee that Clarke would have let a Doolan or Marsh get to 100. 100%. I think any self-respecting captain would.
Agree it should be a great final day if England nip a couple out early. Gotta bowl full though...
I wouldn't suggest any captain should consider a declaration with a player in the 90's but I do think he should have done it early enough to allow 45 mins to and hour at the Lankans. I guess Ballance was in the 70's or 80's at that stage? Must admit, didn't watch the last couple of hours so could be wrong about this...
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Any captain would have given a guy in his second test the chance to make his debut hundred - he was clearly told he only had to the close of play to do so. No brainer for me - ask Atherton about when he declared with Hick 98 not out in the Ashes. Atherton regrets it to this day and it destroyed Hick's confidence and many of his team mates faith in the captain and the system.
Have a pop at Cook for being cautious if you like; Its not his fault he's not a natural leader and KP dumped on his generosity and faith, but I guarantee that Clarke would have let a Doolan or Marsh get to 100. 100%. I think any self-respecting captain would.
Agree it should be a great final day if England nip a couple out early. Gotta bowl full though...
Clarke declared in the recent Ashes when Warner was on 80odd to win the game.
Personal landmarks are irrelevant if your side doesn't win.
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Clarke declared in the recent Ashes when Warner was on 80odd to win the game.
Personal landmarks are irrelevant if your side doesn't win.
on 80 odd, not 90 odd. Besides, Cook would be completely barmy if he gave the Sri Lankans, with 2 of the best batters ever to play the game, 100 overs to chase 340-350. Especially with no spinner!
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Plus Warner wasn't in his 2nd test, chasing his first ever ton. So not even the same situation.
England haven't got the attack to blow away the Sri Lankans on this track anyway, so declaring yesterday would have been wrong IMO.
We aren't that on top on a flat wicket.
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I think the balance between the lack of a front-line spinner and the Sri Lanka batting line up are the main reasons for not declaring in the evening of the 4th day. It doesn't look like the most challenging of pitches when the seamers are on it, but I may be proved wrong...
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It was very noticeable how all the English batsmen are standing much taller at the crease than previously - I am not sure who the batting coach is at the moment - but there is a clear technical change.
It will be interesting to see how long the players are able to keep doing that and if it reaps benefits over the longer term.
Further to this - anyone else think that Ballance's technique looks a bit like Andrew Strauss'?
Separately today is going to be a fun day - the ball is hooping around so far...
but why a square leg and not s short leg????
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Lords should be ashamed of this pitch they have prepared.
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Absolute bore fest!
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the media seem to have it in for Cook at the moment,perhaps because he is seen as the one who got rid of KP(rightly or wrongly) but on these decks it's virtually impossible to get a result.
It's all about getting maximum ticket sales over 5 days,and hospitality of course...
it's boring cricket and these games do nothing for the genuine fans.
Cook is not a good captain let's be honest,but he has one hand behind his back trying to get a win on a road of a pitch :)
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I think the media are more bothered about him not being able to score a run on a road of a pitch which everyone else seems to be scoring at ease on!
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that's a fair point! :)
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The thing with Cook is that it seems he's been figured out. Full and across him and he's struggling.
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all left handers have that line of attack to them if you look back over the years,most are vulnerable there
but if you look at the way Cook is out these days it's almost always a defensive shot going across him,rather than an attacking shot
he's either got to start giving it some beans outside off or a change in technique which is by far the harder option at nearly 30 years old.
Gower...bless him for those of us that remember,didnt move anything but creamed it thru cover thru timing and natural ability..but he got caught in the slips a lot.
Cook does'nt have that natural ability,it's more manufactured like a Boycott or a.........'.brain has gone blank' :)
someone else who got to the top thru sheer hard graft rather than a 'natural ' gift for batting
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Hope Ballance's 100 was worth it now, an extra 30-45 minutes bowling time might have been useful now!
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The drizzle is here!
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hold onto your hats Anderson is making some in roads:)
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Brilliant from Anderson but Cook to blame! What a end to the match!
7-9 overs last night would have been perfect instead of allowing personal landmarks.
Cook only attacked in post tea, someone must have told him get the field up!
Then he gave Jordan the new ball ahead of Anderson, those 6 balls could have been the difference
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Phew!! What a Thriller!!!
Only if England had few more overs... hope Balance's century was worth it.
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Draw a test with Sri Lanka that means not a lot. But prolong, and maybe make a bats and test career.
Or declare, win a test that no one will remember in a months time, and at the same time deny a great opportunity to settle ballances nerves, so instead he fails in the next test, and eventually dropped for another guy to be tried. And another and another. And so on.
Right call IMO
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Only if England had few more overs... hope Balance's century was worth it.
Quote of the day that is. If Ballance's confidence is going to take a knock getting 80 no instead of 100 is he really the bloke England want? Huge talent and I rate him - can't believe declaring yesterday would have had any effect on him
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Besides, what about the team perspective. No good having one bloke feeling good if the other 10 feel underdone
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90 overs to take 10 wickets? Why is no-one complaining about 1st inns declaration or over rates?
Ballance's knocked saved the game and stopped Sri Lanka having a chance of willing it.
You cannot be sure that declaring last night would have had any effect on the result.
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Managed to catch the highlights on C5 a little earlier.
The commentary team hailed James Anderson as 'world class'.
This nearly made me fall of my seat in laughter.
Anderson, a home town bully, getting the ball to swing around when the lights where on and thr clouds had rolled in...
'World class'? Do me a favour. Got exposed by Australia good and proper.
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Stat's don't lie one bad series by the whole team didn't help him, leads the team well
Mitchel Johnson quality to rubbish to world class hard life being a fast bowler
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Ah, the ever controversial comments :D,
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Anderson averages 36 outside England.
That's not 'one bad series'
It's the story of his career. King of greentops and hopeless anywhere else.
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Anderson has dismissed Tendulkar a fair amount, in the subcontinent too. Given your argument, Anderson is poorer in NZ and South Africa than in the subcontinent, where he averages under 30 against India, Pakistan and 32 overall. Not bad for a green topper.
Anderson may not be an all time great but he has great skill and has won test matches home and away. He's had one awful overseas ashes, one poor and one fantastic in 10/11. Never done it against your lot but hey oh, it's just a game.
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Plunkett having a good game. 3 wickets so far. 2 drops, and an edge they didn't appeal for.
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That was a cracking snare from Jordan though!
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So was Lords Prior's last stand?
Back to below average again. Absolutely shocking behind the pegs today...
You just don't drop dollies of the greatest flat track bully of all time...
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So was Lords Prior's last stand?
Back to below average again. Absolutely shocking behind the pegs today...
You just don't drop dollies of the greatest flat track bully of all time...
Are you calling Sanga a flat track bully?
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Are you calling Sanga a flat track bully?
Certainly am.
Nearly 40 Test hundreds and has 6/7 outside Asia.
You do the maths my friend...
Throw in the 9 hundreds vs Bang/Zim
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Certainly am.
Nearly 40 Test hundreds and has 6/7 outside Asia.
You do the maths my friend...
Throw in the 9 hundreds vs Bang/Zim
Wasn't asking you to back your claim and provide stats, instead just clarifying who I thought you meant to call a flat track bully. Not interested in a stat debate, you have your own opinion and I have mine.
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Certainly am.
Nearly 40 Test hundreds and has 6/7 outside Asia.
You do the maths my friend...
Throw in the 9 hundreds vs Bang/Zim
Strong. The guy averages nearly 60 in tests, second only to Bradman. He's played 123 test matches and has scored heaps of runs everywhere against every team, including two scores of 200+ against your beloved South Africa.
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Strong. The guy averages nearly 60 in tests, second only to Bradman. He's played 123 test matches and has scored heaps of runs everywhere against every team, including two scores of 200+ against your beloved South Africa.
Sangakkara:
1 hundred in Australia
1 hundred in South Africa
2 hundreds in England
2 hundreds in New Zealand
1 hundred in Zimbabwe
29 hundreds in Asia.
Yeah he averages 59, but I'm sure the Don would've averaged 200 had he batted on the dead roads Sangakkara's been plundering roads on...
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including two scores of 200+ against your beloved South Africa.
Two double hundreds on the dead pitches Colombo.
Let's see him get a 200 in South Africa...I won't hold my breath...
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Sangakkara:
1 hundred in Australia
1 hundred in South Africa
2 hundreds in England
2 hundreds in New Zealand
1 hundred in Zimbabwe
29 hundreds in Asia.
Yeah he averages 59, but I'm sure the Don would've averaged 200 had he batted on the dead roads Sangakkara's been plundering roads on...
Just curious as to why 100's in Asia are crap/useless? if it was that bad then why don't SA, Aus & Eng just show up and sweep all the series and score loads of runs? Just because your team and some others are better at playing fast bowling but not so adept at handling spin does not mean 100's in Asia are crap if scored by an Asian but must be hailed if scored by a player from outside of Asia.
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Gerry is comical. I'm not sure why you guys give him the time of day. Clearly here for the troll.
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Gerry is comical. I'm not sure why you guys give him the time of day. Clearly here for the troll.
Sometimes he does make sense, other times I read and ignore. Today, I am in a mood lol. You are right mate, ignore and live in peace :)
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Just curious as to why 100's in Asia are crap/useless? if it was that bad then why don't SA, Aus & Eng just show up and sweep all the series and score loads of runs? Just because your team and some others are better at playing fast bowling but not so adept at handling spin does not mean 100's in Asia are crap if scored by an Asian but must be hailed if scored by a player from outside of Asia.
Did I say all hundreds in Asia are worthless? No.
I've seen some fantastic innings played in the subcontinent.
Pietersen's 186 vs India
Pietersen's 150 vs SL
Hayden's 200 vs India(a rampaging H Singh)
Sehwag's 201* vs a rampaging Murali and Mendis
I could go on and on.
Sangakkara bullies the crap sides like Bangladesh. And for someone so 'great' he's got only a single hundred in India.
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Gerry is comical. I'm not sure why you guys give him the time of day. Clearly here for the troll.
A troll? Really.
Every statement I make is backed up by statistical proof.
Bury your head in the sand if you want.
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A troll? Really.
Every statement I make is backed up by statistical proof.
Bury your head in the sand if you want.
Tendulkar, Lara & Kallis were all crap, they never won the ashes once between them! That's statistically backed up too...
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Tendulkar, Lara & Kallis were all crap, they never won the ashes once between them! That's statistically backed up too...
Tell me about it...
Only bagged one World Cup between them as well... :(
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I'm with Gerry on this one. The two "greats" of the Sri Lanka batting order have lousy records in England, only boosted by playing on dead wickets like Lords that give bowling a bad name. Sangakkara looks a great player but if England hadn't given him 2.5 lives today he would of been back in the hutch for 20 odd.
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yes but if you take out every piece of evidence to the contrary, you can fit what remains to whichever hypothesis you're trying o make...
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yes but if you take out every piece of evidence to the contrary, you can fit what remains to whichever hypothesis you're trying o make...
So your telling me 7 out of 36 isn't a true reflection? It's under 20% for crying all loud.
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Not to say 100s anywhere are worthless but I think the greatness of a batsman is in how good he is at adapting to new conditions.
Considering above statement centuries scored in familiar conditions should be rated a bit lower than the ones scored in foreign soil.
Considering the fact that most South African players grow up playing on fast bouncy wickets their hundreds on bouncy wickets should be rated below ones scored on turning subcontinent wickets.
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Not to say 100s anywhere are worthless but I think the greatness of a batsman is in how good he is at adapting to new conditions.
Considering above statement centuries scored in familiar conditions should be rated a bit lower than the ones scored in foreign soil.
Considering the fact that most South African players grow up playing on fast bouncy wickets their hundreds on bouncy wickets should be rated below ones scored on turning subcontinent wickets.
On this logic Chris Martin was a deamon batsman! He had an almost identical record in every part of the world! ;)
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Not to say 100s anywhere are worthless but I think the greatness of a batsman is in how good he is at adapting to new conditions.
Considering above statement centuries scored in familiar conditions should be rated a bit lower than the ones scored in foreign soil.
Considering the fact that most South African players grow up playing on fast bouncy wickets their hundreds on bouncy wickets should be rated below ones scored on turning subcontinent wickets.
I'd say scoring a hundred on a fast bouncy pitch against someone like Johnson is a feat in its own right.
It takes skill to play on quick pitches.
But most South African do take great pleasure from scoring runs on turning pitches, as for years we where hopeless at it!
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Magnificent bowling from Liam Plunkett.
Aggressive, fast and accurate.
Bullying the Lankans, would've have a 5fer of Prior was playing catches...
I was critical of Plunkett at Lords, but he's been excellent on a pretty docile track in Leeds
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I'd say scoring a hundred on a fast bouncy pitch against someone like Johnson is a feat in its own right.
It takes skill to play on quick pitches.
But most South African do take great pleasure from scoring runs on turning pitches, as for years we where hopeless at it!
Yes, Gerry absolutely agree with you.
On the same note scoring a hundred against a good subcontinent spin attack is a feat in its own right even when scored by an Asian player.
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There are some statistics that don't tell the whole truth. But I reckon Gerry has a point.
Most have been on flatter, more dosile wickets. And he has not been as good against Aus, SA and English pace attacks and greener or bouncier wickets!
But on the other hand, statistics also show that he averages over 70 with the bat when he's not keeping. And in any conditions that's pretty good!!! Along with Jaya, he'll be sorely missed and he is an elegant and classy batsman when he's in full flow!
Maybe Gerry is right and his average does flatter him somewhat? But I still think he's amongst the top 20 current batsmen!
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Gerry had a point, however I can't help but laugh his 2 arguments in this thread seem to have been:
Bowling performances only count against South Africa or Australia
Batting performances rarely count in Asia
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He averages. 34 in the West Indies and 35.5 in South Africa.
Everywhere else is above 40.
Bully, maybe. At least he is consistent. There is nowhere you would truly say he has 'failed'.
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Most have been on flatter, more dosile wickets. And he has not been as good against Aus, SA and English pace attacks and greener or bouncier wickets!
So, hold me if I'm misreading this....in conditions less favourable to batting he averages less than in conditions that are?
Revelation!
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He averages. 34 in the West Indies and 35.5 in South Africa.
Everywhere else is above 40.
Bully, maybe. At least he is consistent. There is nowhere you would truly say he has 'failed'.
he averaged just 30 in England before this tour.
Sent from my Lenovo B6000-F using Tapatalk
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I'd still have him in my Test World 15 squad though ;)
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he averaged just 30 in England before this tour.
Sent from my Lenovo B6000-F using Tapatalk
But until the most recent tour of South Africa, he averaged 40 in that country (give or take half a run).
You can either take all the information, or pick a piece to suit, either way, there will be another stat that someone else can take in the same vain.
End of the day, there is nowhere he has truly 'failed'.
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Another failure for Alastair Cook, once again out hanging the bat out outside off pole and gives catching practice to Sangakkara at 2nd slip.
23 digs without a Test hundred now. Gotta be getting close to panic stations for the England captain...
Dare I say it, #BlameShane...
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Slightly disappointing final hour or so there but we're still in a fairly good position. Cook looks to be in a bit of a situation, I think he'll be given the India series and if he doesn't go big at all in that they'll be forced to take some sort of action, just a problem with having no one really being set up for captaincy yet, would have to go to Bell/Prior (if he has the form).
Just curious Gerry, do you have any opinions/thoughts on young(ish) South African bowler Kyle Abbott? Just been watching him at Hampshire a bit this season and wondered what your thoughts were on him as a South African.
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bell is an adept captain, with more experience than Cook.
Robson looks ok, very patient, pretty dull, but this bowling attack is only of county standard so players should be filling their boots.
really frustrated with Moeen's dismissal, someone will have to make way for Stokes against India and that will be tough as there is no spin option, you don't need 5 seamers and none of the front line bowlers have done badly. I really want to see him do well.
glad I am not a selector in this instance.
ballance looks a quality player.
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A troll? Really.
Every statement I make is backed up by statistical proof.
Bury your head in the sand if you want.
Gerry ladies and gentleman... (crickets chirping)
So he grows up playing on Asian wickets and scores more runs on Asian wickets? I'm shocked!
He scores double tons against SA in Sri Lanka and you think he is a bully? Do the SA and Aussie bowlers suddenly become village cricketers when they tour Asia?
Sanga is one of the greatest of all time and anything to the contrary is a classic example of tall poppy syndrome.
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Gerry ladies and gentleman... (crickets chirping)
So he grows up playing on Asian wickets and scores more runs on Asian wickets? I'm shocked!
He scores double tons against SA in Sri Lanka and you think he is a bully? Do the SA and Aussie bowlers suddenly become village cricketers when they tour Asia?
Sanga is one of the greatest of all time and anything to the contrary is a classic example of tall poppy syndrome.
Flat dead pitches that having nothing for fast bowlers.
Balls bouncing ankle high.
Yeah Sangakkara's an 'all time great' at piling up runs on flat tracks. No more.
He's levels behind batsmen such as Kallis, Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar etc.
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Just curious Gerry, do you have any opinions/thoughts on young(ish) South African bowler Kyle Abbott? Just been watching him at Hampshire a bit this season and wondered what your thoughts were on him as a South African.
I'm a big fan of Kyle Abbott mate.
He's a Durban boy, so I've seen a fair bit of him.
He's very skilled, but due to Philander's extraordinary Test record, it's hard for Kyle to get an extended run in the side.
In the future Abbott, de Lange and Hendricks could be SAs Test attack.
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Yeh, he's been pretty class in the county championship, bit hit and miss in T20 so far, sometimes he'll pull it off brilliantly and sometimes he'll get hit for 40 odd!
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Just to add to discussions, averages in Sri Lanka :D :
Lara : 100.85
Tendulkar : 67.94
Sangakkara : 63.27
Ponting : 48.20
Kallis : 35.33
You're clearly going to feel more comfortable and therefore more than likely score more heavily in your home country, however over factors may come in.
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Yeh, he's been pretty class in the county championship, bit hit and miss in T20 so far, sometimes he'll pull it off brilliantly and sometimes he'll get hit for 40 odd!
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Just to add to discussions, averages in Sri Lanka :D :
Lara : 100.85
Tendulkar : 67.94
Sangakkara : 63.27
Ponting : 48.20
Kallis : 35.33
You're clearly going to feel more comfortable and therefore more than likely score more heavily in your home country, however over factors may come in.
Lara's average is extraordinary as he dominated the greatest spinner of all time Murali.
Tendulkar's 67 average isn't to shabby either.
Abbott shouldn't be playing T20 IMO. It doesn't suit his bowling style.
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Flat dead pitches that having nothing for fast bowlers.
Balls bouncing ankle high.
Yeah Sangakkara's an 'all time great' at piling up runs on flat tracks. No more.
He's levels behind batsmen such as Kallis, Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar etc.
Kallis, Lara, Ponting and Tendulkar? You've just named 4 of the greatest batsman of all time. Just about everyone in history are behind these guys. Great argument Gerry.
You're just doing your classic stubborn exercise where you make some outrageous statement and instead of saying "yeah maybe I was bait over the top" you just continue to look like a complete donkey. Averages almost 60 in test cricket. No matter where you score those runs Asia, England, SA or anywhere. If you score that amount of runs over that time period you are one of the greatest.
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Horrible captaincy by cook at the moment, really is letting this game go!
Get the spinner on to the lefty!
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Yeah god knows what he is up to...
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Cook has got it wrong again. Just like batting too long for Ballance's ton in the last.
Even the crown knew the spinner should be on; ironic cheer when he came on!
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Just shows what a captain cook is, he's gone off to get ideas since he's got no clue himself
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Billy Bowden has had a shocker there!
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Billy Bowden has had a shocker there!
That's what reviews are for and not for 50/50 reviews that England have wasted them on
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Cook cook cook.
Was it me, or did Sri Lanka plays giggle at that wicket as opposed to celebrate it? Lol
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Cooks place has to be in danger.. Shocking dismissal
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Cook's fall from grace is occurring at a rapid rate.
Not that I'm very sympathetic.
I bet KP's enjoying see Cook's career crumble.
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How embarrassing if England lose to sri lanka at home.
What a stupid shot by robson
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All out tonight?
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I'd be tempted to hand the captaincy over to Bell (perhaps Prior if looking for it temporarily) if England lose this. Keep Cook in the side without the pressure of captaincy and hope that helps get his form back. If not, at least you can drop him more easily!
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England in disarray!!!
Prasad on fire!
Rips through Ian Bell
52/4.
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I'd be tempted to hand the captaincy over to Bell (perhaps Prior if looking for it temporarily) if England lose this. Keep Cook in the side without the pressure of captaincy and hope that helps get his form back. If not, at least you can drop him more easily!
Prior can't be considered for captaincy.
In an alternative world, he'd have had 3 consecutive ducks had the umpires decisions gone in SLs favour.
It has to be Bell as captain.
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About time billy was retired.
He's having an absolute mare today, be disgusted at club level with this performance
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About time billy was retired.
He's having an absolute mare today, be disgusted at club level with this performance
he's trying to put England out of their misery...wouldn't pay a fiver to watch this England team!
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Plunkett wants shooting after that shot.......disgraceful.
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What an absolute shambles, might be a long 12 months watching England at this rate!!
Where's that thread about Bell scoring important runs under pressure? :)
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Cook out as skipper with bell stepping in and moving up to three. Ballance down the order to five. Ali out for a proper full time spinner and Jordan replaced by Stokes. Prior out, someone who can catch in.
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WOW , Best day for SL of this series, absolute gold!
Wish there were more overs today to finish this up.
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I'd keep the exact same team for the India series but with Stokes in for Jordan and Bell to skipper. If Cook hasn't seen any improvement by the 3rd/4th test I'd put Carberry in instead.
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Can't keep changing order. Needs to get it settled for a few games.
Stokes took 7-fer I think today, so he must come in for someone.
Give Cook the summer, the team has been let down in the field badly. You cannot pick out just Prior. There have been dropped catches from everyone.
Will need to find a proper spinner from somewhere OR trust Moeen more and get him more overs earlier.
There is still a chance in this team match. It is a long day tomorrow so either England pull a miracle out or Sri Lanka win by about lunch time.
You can say what you want about KP, but he would have replaced Root/Ali or Ballance.
Root and Ballance have scores runs and Ali has bowled ok. Either way he would not have had a positive outcome on the results.
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I cannot see Bell as a skipper of a Test side I'm afraid.
He just doesn't seem to have the mental toughness to me, doesn't seem to perform when the chips are down and still seems to be 12.
If we were to depose Cooky I would give it to Prior.
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Bell isn't a Captain.
The only replacement in the team is Prior.
There is no point in wide spread changes, we did that in the 80's and got nowhere.
Cook just needs a break. He's the best candidate to be Captain, which is why he is, he just needs to regain some form.
Ali, however, may need either 1) dropping or 2) an extended run and to be left alone. He's not a test spinner, but we know that. No point in beating with that stick.
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Cook is just not captaincy material. Its not a big deal - many of the game's greats made poor captains (Tendulkar).
His approach to captaincy is like his approach to batting - measured, conservative, and sticking to more or less one blueprint. And thats the drawback - when things are not going well on the field, he doesn't seem to have plans B or C.
Matt Prior or Ian Bell are worth a shot I think. Stuart Broad is another option, but perhaps needs a few more years to 'mature'.
But, one thing is for sure - I'd say Cook has to be relieved of the job - he's a great opener; terrible captain. This must be the 6th Test (out of the last eight), where lack of imagination and/or "killer instinct" has let the opposition off the hook. Again, not a big deal - some guys have it, some don't.
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Just watching the highlights now on 5and it's abysmal. Scarily it gets worse
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Was at Durham today and Stokes bowled quickly, troubled the batsman with his pace and bounce all day, if he scores a few in the second dig he's got to be in next game surely?
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I think its important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater at this stage.
If you set aside the period between lunch and tea yesterday, when Cook handed the game on a silver platter to a team that had otherwise been second best throughout much of the series, England's tally would have read something along the lines of "well, we found a decent opener, a guy who could bat at three though would be better at five and a guy who might give our attack some muscle, and got Joe Root and James Anderson back to boot" which, along with some promise from Jordan and Ali, should tick plenty of boxes.
Obviously, there are concerns - Cook's form, his captaincy and the lack of a spinner being the three big ones.
Lets start with the one that most desperately needs fixing - Cook as skipper. I've said it before and I'll say it again, his performances have been so bad that it would make statistical sense to get a good club skipper to play as a specialist captain! All jesting aside, he's clearly overreached by the role and needs to be stood down now before his long term future as a player is affected (bear in mind that, playing as a ranksman for Essex, he was scoring in bucketloads at the start of the season). A replacement is difficult - if it were from within the current side, I'd be tempted to offer it to Anderson. From without, since a return for KP is not really on the cards, its rather harder.
That done, question two is, does Cook need to be rested? I'm 50/50 on this - long term, you'd hope he'll recover form and remain first choice, so I'd like them to stick by him. Though it is tempting to see how Compton, Carberry or Lyth might do for a few tests.
The spin option is tricky. I'm assuming that Stokes will return for the India series - he has to really - and that he will either do so as a like for like for Jordan at eight (Plunkett being the better choice in a five man attack, harsh as that is on Jordan who is a decent cricketer) or, more likely, for Ali at six with Jordan replaced by a frontline spinner. Who? Assuming Rashid really is persona non grata, and that Monty's escapades have made him an unlikely bet, I'd like to see them go with Adam Riley. Kid looks a decent bowler, has time on his side and with some words of wisdom from Swann at least might make the grade...
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Obviously, if Ali makes a brillian match winning ton today that might look a bit different...
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I don't think it's fair to judge the bowlers especially the new bowlers Plunkett, Jordan and Ali to harshly as they have been set poor fields and been poorly managed by Cook.
Cook is such a good player with lots of experience but is in no way a natural leader. Just let him concentrate on scoring runs and let some else captain the side.
I think Morgan would make a good captain but not sure where you bring him into the side except for Ali but then we need to find a frontline spinner.
We can't play Rilley he may have potential but the Indians are great players of spin and don't want to ruin someone before they've really started their career.
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To be fair, Broad and Anderson both bowled poorly in the SL second innings. It's Headingly. Pitch it up and let the movement do it's job...
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The spin option is tricky. I'm assuming that Stokes will return for the India series - he has to really - and that he will either do so as a like for like for Jordan at eight (Plunkett being the better choice in a five man attack, harsh as that is on Jordan who is a decent cricketer) or, more likely, for Ali at six with Jordan replaced by a frontline spinner. Who? Assuming Rashid really is persona non grata, and that Monty's escapades have made him an unlikely bet, I'd like to see them go with Adam Riley. Kid looks a decent bowler, has time on his side and with some words of wisdom from Swann at least might make the grade...
You'd be happy to blood Riley, who's played all his professional cricket in division 2 against India? A side consisting of Pujara, Kohli, Sharma and Dhoni all excellent players of off spin?
Monty, whatever his mistakes, has to be the man against. India. He had the Indians in sorts of bother in the last series. India have a lot of RHB, and that's good for Monty.
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Umpiring in this game has been the worst i've seen for a while. Billy has had a shocking game and Reiffel giving that no ball as out just now caused a minor clean up operation in the office as i launched my McFlurry into the wall!
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Surprising why no credit is given to the SL batting and only poor captaincy/bowling is getting the credit for the big second inning total SL got.
SL batted well in my opinion. The captains go on defensive at times to slow down which we often see even in club cricket.
Had he been attacking, 2 things could have happened - SL could have added 100 more or got 100 less. But who knows ... these are all IFs which no one can predict.
Given the situation, you want to reduce the risk and save the game before thinking of winning it.
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So the 21 days has been and gone that Senanayake needed to have his action tested.
Anyone know when we might get the results?
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You'd be happy to blood Riley, who's played all his professional cricket in division 2 against India?
I sometimes feel people are a bit harsh in judgment against division 2 sides. I'd say about half the sides in D2 could still be fairly competitive in D1, admittedly there are a few that would struggle a lot but there's still good teams there.
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I sometimes feel people are a bit harsh in judgment against division 2 sides. I'd say about half the sides in D2 could still be fairly competitive in D1, admittedly there are a few that would struggle a lot but there's still good teams there.
The 2 sides that got promoted last year are more than likely going to be relegated again this year.
Lancs have won one and that was with help of Anderson.
Northamptonshire are yet to win, and I would bet they won't this year. There 400 behind lancs at mo with only 6 wkts left. Lancs declared there only innings.
Div 2 is nowhere to blood England spinners in prep fro India
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Northamptonshire had a bit of a fluky season last year in my opinion as everyone just seemed to perform so well (even those that hadn't done so before) but seem to be tailing off again. They've also been attacked by a lot of injurys and problems with overseas players.
In D2 you have Worcestershire, Hampshire, Surrey and Essex, all of which are teams I feel could be competitive in D1, the majority of which due to their batting lineup but there's still good bowlers chucked in there as well.
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I sometimes feel people are a bit harsh in judgment against division 2 sides. I'd say about half the sides in D2 could still be fairly competitive in D1, admittedly there are a few that would struggle a lot but there's still good teams there.
Personally if played against Riley on a few occasions as played his club cricket for Bexley in Kent premier league although this was 3 seasons ago before he was a county regular. Very very good bowler and massively underrated. Yes he plays in Div 2 of county cricket but he has been Selected as Kent feel he is a better option than treadwell at the moment who has been playing club cricket this season so maybe give him a chance. By the looks of it Monty is not in contention and I believe you pick on form and this season he has been the best slow bowler in the country by some way.
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Whatever happens in this last hour. Lose or draw. You have to give Ali root and the tail some kudos for taking it all the way to extra time in the last session.
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Well batted Moeen Ali!
With him, Root, Ballance and Robson all making centuries, Plunkett's bowling and Stoles set to return the future of English cricket is bright.
Need a new skipper to truly start this new era!
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Well. It was a fightback of worthy causes but just not enough.
England now not won in 8 tests. And 5th in the world. Still going downwards at mo.
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Congrats Sri Lanka, really surprised me with their fight. Especially outside Asia.
Ali played well.
Anderson, not a fan of his, hard luck.
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Test cricket at its best, English people and ambiance make it incredible.
I felt for James Anderson.
While England go down, Pakistan gets promoted to number three!! Outrageous!! Shows how flawed test ratings are.
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England will make hay against the hapless Indians though. 4/1 I'm predicting.
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^ now that is truly bonkers...
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^ now that is truly bonkers...
You know India haven't won a test outside Asia since Jamaica 2010.
Since then their record is 0-10-3
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England will make hay against the hapless Indians though. 4/1 I'm predicting.
Seriously!!!
Please tell me you were being sarcastic lol!!!
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You'd be happy to blood Riley, who's played all his professional cricket in division 2 against India? A side consisting of Pujara, Kohli, Sharma and Dhoni all excellent players of off spin?
Monty, whatever his mistakes, has to be the man against. India. He had the Indians in sorts of bother in the last series. India have a lot of RHB, and that's good for Monty.
It goes against the grain for me to say this, because I'd usually be firmly in the "its only division 2" camp but I really like what I've seen of the lad - certainly see him as a better bet than Kerrigan (too slow) or Borthwick (too rubbish). If I wee looking for the guy to fill the old Swann role then no, it would not be a great idea, but as the guy who bowls when something different is needed after Anderson, Broad, Plunkett and Stokes have had a go then, yeah, I don't see why not.
Obviously Monty is a different issue. The fact is, his behaviour has deteriorated so far that its just not that likely to happen.
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England will make hay against the hapless Indians though. 4/1 I'm predicting.
Depends. India's recent record is very poor outside home conditions, but they will be smarting from being beaten in India last time out and England have the look of a gun-shy team at the moment. Cook is a terrible skipper and they are no longer capable of closing out decisive periods of play that a year ago they'd have strolled. If the weather allows for seamer friendly decks, you might not be too far off, but I wonder whether 2-2 is not more likely.
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While England go down, Pakistan gets promoted to number three!! Outrageous!! Shows how flawed test ratings are.
or how flawed two test series are? This one was crying out for a third, even a fourth game.
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or how flawed two test series are? This one was crying out for a third, even a fourth game.
Agree completely with this.All test series should be 3 minimum
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Cook as capt out.. Just not up to it
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England will make hay against the hapless Indians though. 4/1 I'm predicting.
Hmm with an Indian squad which could bat all 5 days I think a few draws are coming our way
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or how flawed two test series are? This one was crying out for a third, even a fourth game.
It's money in the end , Great cricket but stands were empty ,SL community is not as strong as Indian or even Pakistan communities. Also England fans didn't expect this series to be this good due to lack of respect for SL test team in these conditions. Fair call although that might change in the future.
You will not see empty stands when Indians tour here , so from financial point of view it makes sense. But yeah would have been nice at least ECB took one match from India series and made this a 3 match series.
Sri Lanka can't camplain either , last time England tour SL SLC docked one test match and made it a only a 2 match series so what goes around comes around.
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It's money in the end , Great cricket but stands were empty ,SL community is not as strong as Indian or even Pakistan communities. Also England fans didn't expect this series to be this good due to lack of respect for SL test team in these conditions. Fair call although that might change in the future.
You will not see empty stands when Indians tour here , so from financial point of view it makes sense. But yeah would have been nice at least ECB took one match from India series and made this a 3 match series.
Sri Lanka can't camplain either , last time England tour SL SLC docked one test match and made it a only a 2 match series so what goes around comes around.
Trouble is it's not more England supporters want to see India.. It's purely Indians here want to see India.
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Trouble is it's not more England supporters want to see India.. It's purely Indians here want to see India.
The rate things are going there won't be any England supporters who'd be willing to pay to see England either!
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The rate things are going there won't be any England supporters who'd be willing to pay to see England either!
True.
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Trouble is it's not more England supporters want to see India.. It's purely Indians here want to see India.
I could be wrong by I remember it was about 50-50 crowd distribution between IND and ENG fans when they toured 2011? yeah this time around Englland fansare disheartened so it will look different
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First of all commiserations ENG supporters , must be heart wrecking watching this series .
But what a series for SL , WOW, never expected us to bounce out England in England and win a test series .
But I have to say it all started with that late declaration in first test , had England won that match then momentum would have been with England so SL might have crumbled in this test.
Hope Balance's century was worth it.
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First of all commiserations ENG supporters , must be heart wrecking watching this series .
But what a series for SL , WOW, never expected us to bounce out England in England and win a test series .
But I have to say it all started with that late declaration in first test , had England won that match then momentum would have been with England so SL might have crumbled in this test.
Hope Balance's century was worth it.
You can't be certain that would have made difference.
It was the bad fielding to blame. About 15 dropped catches over two games. Take them, win series 2-0.
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Hmm with an Indian squad which could bat all 5 days I think a few draws are coming our way
Maybe they could bat 5 days if the series was in India.
But India have many batsmen with questions hanging over them.
Vijay, Dhawan, Sharma and Dhoni.
I'm expecting at least 2 batting collapses from India.
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You can't be certain that would have made difference.
It was the bad fielding to blame. About 15 dropped catches over two games. Take them, win series 2-0.
Well there were dropped catches from both sides , so you can't just pick out on one side , same with umpiring decisions, In first test Eng had the advantage with 50:50 decisions and in this test SL had the advantage .
Yeah you can't say for sure if England would have won if they declared early but at least they would have had chance , few more overs at SL no 11 would have been vital in that first test.
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If am to put money on ENG- IND series then I'll put my money on England . I'd expect something similar to what we saw back in 2011.
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All the media focus on Cook & a spinner has detracted from a few other fairly important issues which have reared their head
1) Sam Robson - yes he got a ton and congrats too him. However technically, surely he will be figured out very soon at this level, and given his apparent lack of scoring options is a huge concern when combined with Cook's form
2) Fielding - once again England's fielding has been atrocious. Who can seriously remember the last time England fielded well? Something needs done as the bowlers are unfairly getting stick when they are let down atleast 3 times an innings it seems.
3) Matt Prior - poor gloves and suspect batting bar one knock. Give him the India series to prove himself.
4) Lack of leaders - who are the leaders in the team? Would Cook still be captain if there was an obvious leader as an alternative?
5) Chris Jordan - ultimate ' jack of all trades, master of none'. A very good cricketer but seems to not be quite up to international standard YET. Should be replaced by Stokes
Also as a side point, I genuinely believe Ali can become a test spinner for England. A decent FC record and plenty of advice and help from Saeed Ajmal, with time he will get there. Hope he gets a run as there is no obvious alternative, however he will probably struggle vs India, given their quality v spin.
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Chris Jordan seems like poor man's Andrew Flintoff ,
Not up to test cricket yet I feel
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I know Stokes has started his international career well and I agree we need to get him back in based on these and his county performances.
But in the long term I really don't see him being successful he'll average less than 30 with the bat and more than 30 with the ball meaning he's not good enough to play as bowler or a batsman which you need to be to be a true all rounder.
I may be completely wrong but it's just a feeling I've got.
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I do feel for Jimmy but cant understand why mid-lower order batters are not ducking enough. Root didn't play the short stuff well at all and I think had the England batsman got under the ball, SL wouldn't have bowled so may short balls.
Seems to be a more recent thing where batsmen are playing short bowling with a straight bat. Ive always thought either pull/hook or get under it...
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But in the long term I really don't see him being successful he'll average less than 30 with the bat and more than 30 with the ball meaning he's not good enough to play as bowler or a batsman which you need to be to be a true all rounder.
I think this is a bit of a misnomer in the modern game. It used to be that the definition of an all rounder was that they would be worth selecting as a batsman if they could not bowl and as a bowler if they could not bat - but in truth, how many players have ever simultaneously been one of the best five batsmen in their country and one of the best five bowlers? In my memory; Ian Botham, Clive Rice, Imran Khan and briefly, because there was such a paucity of options, Dwayne Bravo. For about eighteen months Andy Flintoff might have been too.
Hadlee, Kapil Dev, Cairns? None would have made the grade as batsmen. Kallis? an excellent bowler, but South Africa would have been able to call upon a better pure seamer at any time.
So most all rounders have a stronger suit; the question is more, if they are not a superstar assured of their place for one discipline a la Kallis and the others named above who just happen to be very good at the other, is whether they provide something in balancing the side as a 6/7 bat and fifth bowler, rather than just being a bits a nd pieces player.
Stokes appears to do this; if you were picking the best six batsmen in the country, you probably wouldn't go for him (nor would you have picked Moeen ALi for the series under discussion), nor would he be in the top five bowlers but as a package he offers enough to be worth selection.
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I do feel for Jimmy but cant understand why mid-lower order batters are not ducking enough. Root didn't play the short stuff well at all and I think had the England batsman got under the ball, SL wouldn't have bowled so may short balls.
Seems to be a more recent thing where batsmen are playing short bowling with a straight bat. Ive always thought either pull/hook or get under it...
I don't understand why he was even holding the bat in that situation. As soon as Eranga's shoulder dipped he should have dropped it and let the ball hit him.
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A spin on the captaincy issue.
Was cook let down by an apparent lack of Vice Captain?
We know Cook is defensive as a captain and struggles when more attacking fields needs to be brought into play, or brings them in late.
Who was the vice captain? What advice is Cook being given from his senior players? Or has created an environment where players don't give him advice?
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I don't understand why he was even holding the bat in that situation. As soon as Eranga's shoulder dipped he should have dropped it and let the ball hit him.
Exactly! Eranga's plan was fairly well telegraphed (I know he bowled one full one), why did Jimmy, and Root earlier for that matter, not drop hands and get out the way?? Different class of bat IMO but apparently Robin Smith used to get the bowling machine at 90mph, pitched short (with a cap in those days!) and if he couldn't play an attacking cross bat shot he ducked under it. Bowlers will soon get bored if the short pitched bowling is left alone.
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Who was the vice captain? What advice is Cook being given from his senior players? Or has created an environment where players don't give him advice?
What advice did Cook seek? Apparently none. Which is even more worrying!
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What advice did Cook seek? Apparently none. Which is even more worrying!
He did run off the pitch at one point....
Apparently when this happened Bell, Prior and Broad were all moving fielders! So not sure if the team knows who VC is either!
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He did run off the pitch at one point....
best place for him...
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I don't understand why he was even holding the bat in that situation. As soon as Eranga's shoulder dipped he should have dropped it and let the ball hit him.
Err, because it is his livelihood. He gets hit, injured, out for the summer. Might not get back in the team.
If you have a bat, use it.
You cannot blame Jimmy.
Blame the dropped catches. Blame the 5 wickets to fall the night before. Blame Moeen for not being able to farm the strike better, but not Jimmy on this occasion.
If he had played it and it had not gone to the fielder, no-one would be complaining, they would say well batted.
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Do Slazenger make a V1200 model without a butt-crack on the back?
Just wondered, as I don't think Jimmy's had a butt-crack on the back, so I wondered what he was using?
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Err, because it is his livelihood. He gets hit, injured, out for the summer. Might not get back in the team.
If you have a bat, use it.
You cannot blame Jimmy.
You actually can. There were two balls to go - if he did not hit it he was not getting out therefore get the bat as far away as possible - if you can sway out of the way do so but otherwise, take one for the team!
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Why did Moeen Ali, the last recognised batsman let the number 11 to face the last over and most critical over of the day.
Take one for the team and potentially get injured and potentially lose your livelihood playing for England? Err, no. That is an idiot who thinks getting injured is above your career.
If the 'proper' batsmen can't bat, why should he put himself on the line.
One to the ribs and he could be out for the summer, not being fit enough for the winter as well.
There was no guarantee if he played it he would get out, so why risk your life on a couple of balls.
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Furthermore, what would have happened if he had been hit and broken a rib so he could not bat on.
Still lost.
Blame the batsmen, not the last man out
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I love seeing this... England in Meltdown, maybe KP worth a run against India.
I am still in shock that you didnt pick Ben Stokes he was the only light in your tour out here and then you pick 4 seamers and don't prepare green tops.
I havent gone through all 16 pages but what are people saying is the problem with ENG. Is it Cooks man management or is lack of ideas as a captain
**Cue comments on Australians and arrogance **
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Why did Moeen Ali, the last recognised batsman let the number 11 to face the last over and most critical over of the day.
Presumably he figured letting anderson start the last over on strike was less of a risk than him trying to force a single in once of the last 2 ball of the previous over.
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Why did Moeen Ali, the last recognised batsman let the number 11 to face the last over and most critical over of the day.
Take one for the team and potentially get injured and potentially lose your livelihood playing for England? Err, no. That is an idiot who thinks getting injured is above your career.
If the 'proper' batsmen can't bat, why should he put himself on the line.
One to the ribs and he could be out for the summer, not being fit enough for the winter as well.
There was no guarantee if he played it he would get out, so why risk your life on a couple of balls.
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Why did Moeen Ali, the last recognised batsman let the number 11 to face the last over and most critical over of the day.
not sure there was an opportunity for a single, he did the right thing by not trying to manufacture one.
Take one for the team and potentially get injured and potentially lose your livelihood playing for England? Err, no. That is an idiot who thinks getting injured is above your career.
There was no guarantee if he played it he would get out, so why risk your life on a couple of balls.
Not sure if you're being soft or melodramatic here, but its definitely one or t'other.
Graeme Smith walked out to face Mitchell Johnson with a broken hand in a dead rubber. Colin Cowdrey batted with a broken arm and one hand on the bat. Freddie Flintoff took years off his career bowling through painful injuries. Because its a team sport and you sometimes have to put personal well being second to the needs of the team. The best sides did...
He might get a bruise - (No Swearing Please) happens. The amount of padding he had on, it was unlikely to be worse than that and, hello, there was a test series on the line.
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I would love to see you face an 85mph bouncer into the ribs... Your natural instinct would be to play it, anyone who says he should have just 'let it hit him' is just being moronic in my opinion
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Plenty of times ali could've taken a single from the 3rd ball and let jimmy face 3. Instead he rejected it and got stuck at the other end, leaving Jimmy to face a whole over.
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I would love to see you face an 85mph bouncer into the ribs... Your natural instinct would be to play it, anyone who says he should have just 'let it hit him' is just being moronic in my opinion
all depends, he probably would have a chest guard on as he had one out here and really if this was the 1980's you would just let it hit you.
was it really 85mph, the sri lankan attack looked popgun, maybe watch Michael Clarke vs Morne Morkel earlier this year. He was getting hammered and batted with a broken shoulder
arguably one of his greatest innings ever in my opinion.
Anderson has the heart the size of a pea if conditions aren't right for him and with the bat is the same atm, he use to be able to guts it out like he and Monty did in Cardiff all those years ago but now he looks scared
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Graeme Smith and Colin Cowdrey already had the injuries, so they could do that. It is different that injuring yourself deliberately. They knew they were going to miss the next few games with injury.
People have died by getting hit in the heart/throat area but you would put the team ahead of your life I presume.
Moeen had 6 balls to 'manufacture' a single. I have not sen the highlights yet, but I would guess one ball could have been worked for a single.
Cook, Bell, Robson, Plunkett all played bad shots on the first night and Ballance missed a straight one, yet you blame Anderson???
If he had done that in the morning session and England had been bowled out before lunch, you wouldn't be saying he should wear one, so why now?
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I would love to see you face an 85mph bouncer into the ribs... Your natural instinct would be to play it, anyone who says he should have just 'let it hit him' is just being moronic in my opinion
Firstly, I have faced the odd one in my time so I do know what I'm talking about.
You ignore that a Test player is conditioned to face bowling of that pace and wears protection accordingly. They should also have the mental strength to know what was coming - it was after all the worst disguised bouncer of all time -and been able to resist moving the bat in that direction. It was, after all, a test series on the line.
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Anderson getting out in the way he did isn't really the point.
He shouldn't have been left in that situation by inept batting and bowling earlier in the test.
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Graeme Smith and Colin Cowdrey already had the injuries, so they could do that. It is different that injuring yourself deliberately. They knew they were going to miss the next few games with injury.
So, wait a second, you're now saying that they were at less risk? Surely the risk of Cowdrey getting hit again around the area of the break was far more plausible and potentially damaging than any hypothetical blow/injury that Anderson might have taken - which, incidentally, is not injuring yourself deliberately either, so much as accepting the theoretical risk that injury might occur in order to acheive the desired outcome.
People have died by getting hit in the heart/throat area but you would put the team ahead of your life I presume.
An infintessimally small percentage chance of that anyway, even before you tuck your chin and have a chest guard covering the heart!
Cook, Bell, Robson, Plunkett all played bad shots on the first night and Ballance missed a straight one, yet you blame Anderson???
Oh, Cook is far more culpable for many, many reasons, but the point here is that none of those players were there with two balls to go to save the game. Anderson was, and got out in an awful way.
If he had done that in the morning session and England had been bowled out before lunch, you wouldn't be saying he should wear one, so why now?
For the reasons set out above. At lunch, he would be talking about theoretically wearing dozens, possibly hundreds of balls - there is no realistic hope of such a strategy being successful. AT the stage we're talking about he had to wear, at most, two (if he couldn't have swayed out of the way) which is a much better statistical chance of success.
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With Cowdrey and Smith, what they did was silly but they were already injured and going to be missing future matches. What I suggested was, that letting the ball hit Anderson and putting himself deliberately at risk of being injured with the potential of missing future matches is not an easy decision and one I would never suggest. He has a bat, he can use it. He faced 54 other balls and not got out so why should he not do what he had done for the previous 2 hours. At what point should he stop trying to hit the ball and "wear" one? Last over, last two overs, last 5 overs? Maybe he should have just whacked it?
The only reason Anderson WAS batting WAS because the top order failed miserably (with the exception of Moeen and a bit of Root). Surely they should take the blame playing stupid shots when they did not need to.
Anderson and Ali faced 121 balls for the last wicket. That is a record for the 4th innings 10th wicket. Anderson face 45% of the deliveries, in my opinion, that is a lot when there is a recognised batsman at the other end.
At no point can you put the loss down to Anderson and his batting ability.
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Plenty of times ali could've taken a single from the 3rd ball and let jimmy face 3. Instead he rejected it and got stuck at the other end, leaving Jimmy to face a whole over.
and if he'd done that and Anderson had gotten out in one of those 3 balls he'd also have been slated, I fail to see how the defeat is the fault of someone who batted 300 balls and scored an unbeaten ton!
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Got a little poser.
I know Ben Stokes played well in Australia, and after this series defeat, everyone will want him back in the side.
But would his recall unbalance the side yet more?
Stokes is too good to be wasted at 8, where he's likely to bat against India.
Therefore could it be feasible for England to pick a proper WK to play at 8, and Ali and Stokes at 6 and 7.
I don't see it being ideal, but it could be England's best bet. Whilst I'll admit I don't see either Ali or Stokes as true Test bowlers at present.
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England lost the game on the 4th day and more importantly a realistic chance of draw on the 4th evening.
You can go back to the 2nd evening to see when the tide turned - losing 7 wickets for 50 odd was criminal. Had they scored the minimum 450 required after being 278-2 or 311-3 then England could not of lost the game. Add on an extra 2 hours of England batting on day 3, perhaps a knackered Sri Lanka losing a few more wickets or batting into Day 5 to be 200+ ahead, and it would of been a draw at worst, more likely an England win.
Sri Lanka played well from the moment Bell strangled himself down the legside but England let them in.
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Got a little poser.
I know Ben Stokes played well in Australia, and after this series defeat, everyone will want him back in the side.
But would his recall unbalance the side yet more?
Stokes is too good to be wasted at 8, where he's likely to bat against India.
Therefore could it be feasible for England to pick a proper WK to play at 8, and Ali and Stokes at 6 and 7.
I don't see it being ideal, but it could be England's best bet. Whilst I'll admit I don't see either Ali or Stokes as true Test bowlers at present.
To me Jordan isn't quite good enough with bat or ball at test level - but it's early days. Playing Stokes reinforces the batting and covers for calamity Cook. To be honest Stokes will probably bowl in the batsman's half more often and move the ball, can't see him being any worse than Jordan. I would bat Stokes 7 and Prior 8 if we did that.
Personal preference is to give Rashid a go and dump a batsman. Cook is the obvious one to be dropped with Ali opening. Big call that.
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To me Jordan isn't quite good enough with bat or ball at test level - but it's early days. Playing Stokes reinforces the batting and covers for calamity Cook. To be honest Stokes will probably bowl in the batsman's half more often and move the ball, can't see him being any worse than Jordan. I would bat Stokes 7 and Prior 8 if we did that.
Personal preference is to give Rashid a go and dump a batsman. Cook is the obvious one to be dropped with Ali opening. Big call that.
That's a little radical, and rather unlikely IMHO.
Is Rashid a proper spinner though? Or would he be another all rounder type cricketer like Ali, Stokes, Jordan?
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They won't drop any of the experienced players and Cook will continue as captain, at least until the end of the India series, which we could win and Cook marches on. He's not a natural leader, no shame in that, and is in his most horrible run of form since Pakistan 2010. All things being equal I'd go with form is temporary, class is permanent, but there's something about the captaincy that does for English batsmen - Vaughan, Strauss, now Cook. Maybe they need to look at the extra stuff they do - the PR, peripheral stuff that means the skippers not focusing on his actual job. As an opening bat I'd be fuming with the number of interviews before an innings - and I don't play in front of millions of people...
There's no alternative as captain. All those in the game suggest that Prior needs to concentrate on keeping and Bell on batting. Anderson and Broad won't play every test against India, so they're out as well. For all the promise of Root and Ballance they don't possess anywhere near the mental strength of, say, Graeme Smith to captain so young.
Its also worth remembering that you need experience with the inconsistency of youth. Robson, Root, Ballance, Root - one big innings, Jordan - tailed off in a two-test series. There will be ups and downs with them, but the selectors will stick with them - a revolving door policy doesn't help anyone. Do they know their best side? No. Will they adopt a horses for courses approach to accommodate a couple of all rounders? Probably, yes.
First test is Trent Bridge - you have to play Anderson and Broad there. I'd go with;
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Prior
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
Stokes edges out Jordan as he seems to be bowling well (7-fer) and offers more than Jordan with the bat.
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I think one of the things that is going to make life tough for the selectors is that Cook is the only one of the six frontline batsmen who could really be dropped - Robson and Ali have each made a hundred in their second test, Root made an excellent double hundred and Ballance has arguably been the most impressive of the lot, whilst Bell is still our main man.
That probabaly means a straight Stokes for Jordan and no frontline spinner. Which is bad crickeeeeeeet, as Geoffry would say!
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I think one of the things that is going to make life tough for the selectors is that Cook is the only one of the six frontline batsmen who could really be dropped - Robson and Ali have each made a hundred in their second test, Root made an excellent double hundred and Ballance has arguably been the most impressive of the lot, whilst Bell is still our main man.
That probabaly means a straight Stokes for Jordan and no frontline spinner. Which is bad crickeeeeeeet, as Geoffry would say!
Agreed. Plus the selectors will want consistency after such upheaval, forced or otherwise. Any team that loses Trott, KP, Swann would struggle - you could argue on top form they would all make a World XI. However, this is the hand that has been dealt and played.
All being equal we'd be delighted that four of the top 6 had runs going into a huge series, even more so when one is a 'daddy' and the rest scored by players with no more than 6 tests between them. Cook's getting all of the press though...
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In some ways justifyably because we can all see that his captaincy is affecting his batting and that he is in any event a shockingly bad captain. But, as has been noted, there is no stellar contender from within the side and little more option without as regards a replacement goes, and dropping him would still require another opener to be called up - unless they were going to ask Root to move yet again.
I would still bite the bullet and take the captaincy away from him mind. But Ali's hundred has left the balancing of the side awfully difficult for the selectors!
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Cook out, Root up to open, Morgan in as skipper and Stoles in to replace Jordan anyone?
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Cook out, Root up to open, Morgan in as skipper and Stoles in to replace Jordan anyone?
I don't get why everyone rates Morgan as a captain. I've never seen a great England display in any format with him at the helm. Why should he get another crack as a specialist skipper?
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I don't get why everyone rates Morgan as a captain. I've never seen a great England display in any format with him at the helm. Why should he get another crack as a specialist skipper?
It's not a case of being the best skipper in this case, but the least worst of who's available! He can't do any worse as leader or with the bat, can he??
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Best thing with the bowlers would be for one of them to get a slight niggle so the powers that be don't have to make the decision.
Until there is a decent turning spinner who could come in, or a very good containment bowler, I think they will be happy to keep having Ali and Rooooot at the spin option. This way, they will get a bit better as well. Maybe after a few tests, Ali will be good enough as a recognised spinner.
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on the bowlers, there is no way the bowlers will get through 5 test matches in 6 weeks on the dead roads modern drainage makes the pitches.
everyone will get ago!
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Cook out, Root up to open, Morgan in as skipper and Stoles in to replace Jordan anyone?
Never, ever going to happen, as much as I like Morgan's ODI captaincy skills. Aside from carrying Morgan, who would not only have to contend with the nerves of captaining the Test side with coming back into the side, if he doesn't make runs, his captaincy skills alone won't win us games.
So after bigging up Morgan, you then have to reassure and manage every other player who, now that Cook has been stripped of the captaincy and dropped, think that they are only a couple of innings away from being discarded. After all, if a guy with over 8,000 runs and more 100s than any other English player can be cast aside, then what hope have they got? Root doesn't want to open and Morgan is unproven at Test level. As much as you can argue that he can't do any worse than Cook, you can't guarantee he'll do better than him in the future...
You're also asking Morgan/AN Other to manage a lot of very inexperienced players, who will have very up and down series and an under performing bowling unit. The only plus is the press and media would be distracting from that as they are hounding the selectors and demanding their resignations...
If we're talking fantasy cricket, great - but we're dealing with real people, real talent, but with real doubts, real insecurities and real issues - and differing levels of these in every player, probably changing daily. Consistency and routine brings out the best in pro sportspeople. Cook has been there done it and the nature of cricket is that you're only a couple of hits/one knock away from good form. We all know that, its just that Cook-bashing is second only to hammering English footballers as the nation's favourite pastime at present. They'll stick with him and at some pint soon, he's going to make runs.
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Would surprise me if Cook is skipper for too much longer.
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Morgan seems to have a very good cricketing brain, but even that shouldn't get him in the test side in my opinion.
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they have to do something!
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All the ecb's eggs are in roots basket, just biding their time. could be after India if he gets some runs.
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hope not - he's just too young and impetuous at the moment. Four years time, certainly.
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on the captaincy thing, we have to remember after India there are no tests over the winter, then two tests then the ashes.
there is no way Root will be made captain with that pressure.
seems odd how no journalists are pushing Bell. In fact the opposite, they are saying he couldn't do it. there is huge support in the media for cook, which means they know something we don't.
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Worth a read:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/10931163/Kevin-Pietersen-England-must-show-faith-in-youngsters-and-stop-kidding-the-public-with-negative-tactics.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/10931163/Kevin-Pietersen-England-must-show-faith-in-youngsters-and-stop-kidding-the-public-with-negative-tactics.html)
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Did you see the slating that Warne gave Cook in the Telegraph yesterday? The pressure is building, and I hope that doesn't make Cook and Moores too stubborn with regards to picking an XI to beat India.
The way I see it, there are 13 names to pick from, the current XI plus Stokes and 1x spinner.
The hard-nosed pick would be to drop Ali for Stokes and Jordan for the spinner. It's not fair, and neither have done anything wrong, but the side as it is at the moment is not attacking or flexible enough. Plus both lads, if managed right (and I have some reservations about this) should be made aware they are a big part of the plans for the future.
Who the spinner is mystifies me -
1) sit down with Monty, sort him out and get him on the park
2) sit down with Tredwell/Batty and tell them they are doing a job for England for a few tests
3) blood a youngster - but who.
I haven't looked at the figures, but who are the English spinners taking wickets?
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riley from kent looks really good for his age! But would you risk putting a youngster against the indians
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Worth a read:
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/10931163/Kevin-Pietersen-England-must-show-faith-in-youngsters-and-stop-kidding-the-public-with-negative-tactics.html[/url] ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/10931163/Kevin-Pietersen-England-must-show-faith-in-youngsters-and-stop-kidding-the-public-with-negative-tactics.html[/url])
Speaks a lot of sense. Hard to disagree with much
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riley from kent looks really good for his age! But would you risk putting a youngster against the indians
The thing is, you'd rather do it against India - who for the first three tests at least can be kept in check by pace and seam movement - than against Australia next year. So they need to decide who it is and go with it!
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When is the first India test? Do we have a load of Noddy cricket first?
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When is the first India test? Do we have a load of Noddy cricket first?
A week on Wednesday (the 9th) so it'll be interesting to see what changes (if any) take place!
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stat of the Day...
number of test matches played by Buzz (me) = 0
number of test matches played by the whole England backroom staff = 0.
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Oooooooo controversial.
I must know what I'm talking about with selection, as in my imagination I've played at least 115 magnificent tests!
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I do wonder whether there is a link between successful international coaches and the amount of cricket which has been played by them at international level.
Fletcher played no significant international cricket (the Zimboks were not a front line test playing nation at the time) and did fine. But Buchanan was a total nightmare...
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I am not saying the coach needs to have played a test match, but there surely needs to be some big test experience somewhere in the setup.
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Alec Stewart would bring 100+ tests experience, a fantastic work ethic and a fighting spirit, he's slowly getting more involved in coaching and management so could be a good shout for the future, maybe the next winter tour.
I'd also still like to see Botham have some kind of meaningful involvement with the England team, but doubt that it will ever happen with his TV and charity commitments.
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Not sure with Botham - he's a long time out of the game now and, whilst he can be occasionally entertaining on Sky, his commentary doesn't suggest that he is a deep tactical or technical thinker either.
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There's the suggestion that great ex players, because it came so easily to them, do not have an understanding or the empathy to work successfully with 'lesser' players.
Coaching goes far beyond having played at an elite level, whereas those who have worked hard at their game throughout their careers, or have never reached the heights of Botham, etc have the experiences and knowledge of how to improve. There are examples of this across all sports. You can argue that it helps, that elite players will respect elite performers, but I would suggest that can work both ways. Respect comes from proving you can do your job, whether that's as a data analyst, physio or coach. Take Arsene Wenger - never played top flight football and when he went to Arsenal, got rid of many top players, such as Paul Merson, who thought he was ridiculous. You can speculate all day about his overall success but what he did at that club in the following years was amazing. brought in new methods that are replicated around the world and earned the respect of great footballers.
There's also the hunger - do these great players have it in them to knuckle down as it were and work tirelessly, arguably more so than when they were players, when it was 'easy' for them? Add to that tarnishing their reputation - why have unsuccessful management or coaching on your cv and for ever onwards 'great player, terrible coach?'
I'd take a successfully elite player becoming a coach - but I'd also want him to be 'current' i.e. not living off techniques of their playing time and who recognises the game has moved on...
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I take the point about Botham, he was never the best net trainer, but I was thinking about him more for his amazing self belief and hoping that he would be able to work on the mental side and instill some of that into our current crop of players, as well as encourage our batters to express themselves more, we seem to be those qualities compared to Australian test players for example.
Alec Stewart is still a good shout for a full time coaching job though, same will to win as Botham but much more of a dedicated trainer and self-improver who thought about his technique a lot and worked hard on both his batting and keeping throughout his career. Is anyone else a Stewart fan?
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yes Cumbrian..very much so
We(well some on the forum) would of grown up seeing Stewart repel the West Indies and keep wicket to a higher standard than Prior does now test match after test match for England
He used to counter attack the quick stuff and was one of our best players in an era of Ambrose/walsh/wasim/waqar/warne etc....
England are in a bit of a mess right now and it's clear the press will not give the new coach and players any time to settle,we have been bad in the last year there's no getting away from it.
If you look beyond the bad press there are some young players coming thru with plenty of talent,what we do about Cook God only knows.
He needs runs badly against India, I can't see him surviving another series loss,if we do lose the 'new' coach and regime could be over before it's really started...
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Lehman was an average trainer, at this level I think it's more about man management, Stewart would be good at that, as well as having the right work ethic. Better than all these laptop coaches.
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Despite a poor record on his last outing and forcing 3 England Captains to quit, nobody smelt the coffee and realised Moores wasn't a great option. If you ask me KP went because Moores was a forgone conclusion. Had it been anybody else the whole KP thing would of been resolved or never even come to light. A proper coach with man management skills would of told Cook to grow a pair and KP to grow up. England are now left with a Captain who can't score runs, a Coach with dubious credentials and we don't even pick our best players (KP/Stokes). No wonder we can't beat Sri Lanka.
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PPCC - good to know that there's a few more Stewart fans on here. I agree with you totally, he was a fantastic attacking player in an era of seriously quick bowling. His keeping was much underrated and good enough to justify his selection as an all rounder and keep Jack Russell out of the side, no mean feat.
We do have some good young players coming through, they just need some self belief and a captain to inspire them...I just don't see that man being Cook. The problem is, there is really no-one else at the moment with the necessary charisma and tactical nous to take it on.
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Skip - agreed, laptop coaches are no good to us, we need charisma, a solid grasp of tactics and strategy and a team buildling work ethic from our coach. Also, someone the players can look up to and respect always helps. I know Fletcher was not a top player, but someone like Lehmann demands respect for his playing career and Alec Stewart falls into the same category.
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UKnsaunders - Bang on! Moores failed the first time around. I would have KP as captain, Stokes back in the side and Stewart as coach...that would bring some balls back to the England team.
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You have to have the blend of both - as a coach you have to embrace the modern techniques. By 'laptop' coach do you mean the perception that they hide behind the screens and spend all their time analysing data? If so, that's every successful coach on the planet. Fletcher, Lehman - all 'laptop' coaches...
The days of simply rocking up, giving a Churchillian speech, kissing the badge and sending them out to play will never return. Elite sport is as much about preparation, analysing opponents and using psychological techniques as being motivated and having the ability. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Lehman is a superb man-manager, clearly. Don't assume he's all aussie grit and bluster though - he will have a group behind him doing exactly the same stuff as England's army of backroom staff - they just may not be visible on the balcony or even at the ground.
I do think Alec Stewart has the potential to be a very successful coach, hopefully one day for England. By his own admission he says he's not ready - though I'm certain he'd say yes if asked. I feel Moores needs to be given his chance. I don't think he'd ever be picked again if he hadn't acknowledged his shortfalls first time around and learnt from them. He was very successful at Lancashire and whether you agree with his appointment or not, he has the tools for the job. I think its naive with a new, developing side to expect success on the field straight away. I actually admire The ECB for going back to someone. There's a sense in this country that you have to have someone new, whereas across the world countries will go back to coaches/managers who've gone away, learnt and been successful (football - Brazil, Holland, Italy). We tend to give people one shot and that's it. Why can't you fail, learn/develop and then be successful?
Re; Botham, I think a lot of TV and radio pundits have the issue of their opinions being aired publicly about players and the team. They can quickly alienate players they then may manage/coach. Look at Strauss when he started at Sky. Largely he sat on the fence because he hadn't decided what he was going to do once retired and didn't want to criticise the England players publicly if he wanted to go into coaching. Therefore, I think whereas Botham has the inspirational qualities, I'm not certain he could take a more visible role than as a speaker/consultant to the team. I think Hussain, Atherton, Vaughan have a lot to offer, but maybe once their old team mates have retired...
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I can't see the players following KP.
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I can't see the players following KP.
Totally agree. He's not a leader, though he likes to think he is. Plenty of top talented players aren't (Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis, Botham to name a few).
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If Moores has the tools to do the job or not, the ECB have made him the tool with the job and I can't see any significant chops and changes before the next Ashes series.
We'll have Cook and Moores until the end of that series at least.
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As a certain Alex Hales has found form in the red ball for of the game soon could we soon be seeing him in all formats for England too??
He's such a great talent it seems a shame to limit him as an international T20 specialist, he offers so much more than that!
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As a certain Alex Hales has found form in the red ball for of the game soon could we soon be seeing him in all formats for England too??
He's such a great talent it seems a shame to limit him as an international T20 specialist, he offers so much more than that!
Has to be in the one day side!!
Scored over 600 runs in June....
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As a certain Alex Hales has found form in the red ball for of the game soon could we soon be seeing him in all formats for England too??
He's such a great talent it seems a shame to limit him as an international T20 specialist, he offers so much more than that!
Agreed, although he has had a bit of a stinker at the beginning of the season!
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I'd like to see Hales opening for England in all forms, he offers something different to what we currently have. Root will be at 5 for a while as the ECB have him cotton wooled to take over from Cook, hence Ballance being thrown in at 3, when he bats 5 for Yorkshire. It's no lose for the ECB, if Ballance does well they have a new number 3, if he doesn't they drop him for the next 3 off the conveyor belt and Root remains their man sitting at 5.
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Tough decision - its hard to see who would be dropped for him but if he continues to perform at the level he is right now he makes a powerful case.
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Just curious as to why 100's in Asia are crap/useless? if it was that bad then why don't SA, Aus & Eng just show up and sweep all the series and score loads of runs? Just because your team and some others are better at playing fast bowling but not so adept at handling spin does not mean 100's in Asia are crap if scored by an Asian but must be hailed if scored by a player from outside of Asia.
Because you can be flawed technically and still score a double/triple hundred on Asian pitches. You have absolutely pedestrian batsmen like Gambhir average close to 50 in India.
I on average subtract 6 runs off the average for Indian/SL batsmen and about 3 runs for Pakistani batsmen.