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General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: uknsaunders on December 03, 2015, 10:05:21 AM
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Following on from the Guardian article about more clubs folding, how would you fix club cricket. Let's assume the ECB aren't going to give up their sky blood money for current cricket comps. Here's some of my thoughts:-
1. Clubs can only have a specific number of teams according to the number of pitches at their home ground. Only 2 teams can play in the premier competition.
This restricts the mega clubs adult XI and encourages the talent pool to spread to other clubs, in turn making competition, and the willingness to play for other clubs greater.
2. Start-up fund for new clubs - any club that takes over existing facilities from a closed club gets a £5-10k start up grant, subject to a business plan and monitoring.
3. Pool pitches - get clubs to groundshare where they are a 1 team club. Potentially you could base a 2 sat/2 sun/1 midweek team at the same club. Pooling resources into one well maintained facility is better than 3 average ones.
4. Abandon Colts cricket over the age of 15. Create a pathway straight into adult cricket by 15, make it the norm and create development leagues to bridge the gap between 20 and 45 over cricket. Make each league create a development league.
5. Pool administration resources - ECB should employ part-time or even full time "club managers" to help assist clubs in fundraising and player recruitment. Whether it's an ad-hoc request basis or a regular work, clubs are failing due to lack of admin help. Sack a few ECB development managers or retrain them, they aren't making a difference.
6. Get some live cricket on FTA TV - make up a competition or something!
Any thoughts?
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The same way I'd increase participation in all sports. I'd make them all free. Frankly it's ridiculous that the government complains about unhealthy lifestyles and obesity putting a strain on the NHS, but then if I want to join a gym in London I have to pay upwards of £600 a year. Cricket costs me £300 a year just on subs and match fees and I know for a fact that my club is one of the cheapest to play for for miles! When I used to play five a side football at PowerLeague that was nearly £10 a game. Golf memberships come in at £1500. 11 a side footy costs around £200 a year and I've yet to come across a pitch that hasn't got broken ankle written all over it.
A Playstation 4 plus a couple of games comes in at £400, so it's cheaper to sit on your (No Swearing Please) and play computer games then it is to get outside and play sport. Not saying its the whole problem but it is a woeful situation
I just find it ridiculous how we spend billions trying to fix a problem after its happened by treating health issues once they've already caused damage rather than spending the money encouraging people outside and being active.
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The same way I'd increase participation in all sports. I'd make them all free. Frankly it's ridiculous that the government complains about unhealthy lifestyles and obesity putting a strain on the NHS, but then if I want to join a gym in London I have to pay upwards of £600 a year. Cricket costs me £300 a year just on subs and match fees and I know for a fact that my club is one of the cheapest to play for for miles! When I used to play five a side football at PowerLeague that was nearly £10 a game. Golf memberships come in at £1500. 11 a side footy costs around £200 a year and I've yet to come across a pitch that hasn't got broken ankle written all over it.
A Playstation 4 plus a couple of games comes in at £400, so it's cheaper to sit on your (No Swearing Please) and play computer games then it is to get outside and play sport. Not saying its the whole problem but it is a woeful situation
I just find it ridiculous how we spend billions trying to fix a problem after its happened by treating health issues once they've already caused damage rather than spending the money encouraging people outside and being active.
Two words - Sugar Tax
It's about time we taxed food/soft drinks known to be unheathly and plough some or all of that money back into promoting a healthy lifestyle.
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I don't agree with limitations on the size of clubs - clubs attract players and attract talent, this should be encouraged.
a decent mix of social and league games at different times which suit all. Flexibility to move fixture times should be allowed, finding incentives to get people playing is key, but the biggest problem is time.
More 40 over or 45 over games should be encouraged. Morning matches as well.
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I don't agree with limitations on the size of clubs - clubs attract players and attract talent, this should be encouraged.
a decent mix of social and league games at different times which suit all. Flexibility to move fixture times should be allowed, finding incentives to get people playing is key, but the biggest problem is time.
More 40 over or 45 over games should be encouraged. Morning matches as well.
Agree on the morning matches. When we can play until nearly 9pm most of the season, why not host 2 games at the same ground? Could do a 9am and 3pm start and still get 2 40 overs games in. For many clubs struggling to fund a 3rd XI pitch or looking to share facilities this would prove a huge financial boost. It could also encourage players with families to play as they can be home by 3pm.
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Limit the paying of players to ECB premier league and Div1 clubs would be a good start
I've seen a few lower sides bring in 2-3 paid players and ruin a club as they feel they need to be in a higher league to attract players, but when the money runs out and the players leave they drop down and are worse off overall
Look to help clubs with facilities in way of grants etc that must be used for the purpose as so many times money raised finds way into the star players hands.
Offer free groundsmen courses/days at a county ground so clubs can learn how to prepare pitches better
Maybe even offer more advice with running a club by getting local clubs together in a forum of some sort so they can help ech other with recruitment, admin, coaching etc
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re-investment in NGBs from the top down. A commitment to an Olympic legacy and a greater focus on community sports clubs - grants, awards and even loans to ensure sustainability. But clubs need to be accountable for that money.
re-invest the £162m per year that went into school sport partnerships - the rise in cricket in state schools between 2002 and 2010 was huge, as was competition, from primary to secondary schools. The funding available now isn't ringfenced and only goes to primary schools, so schools can do with the money as they wish with regard to sports provision. The £162m per year ensured high quality coaches, training for teaching staff and resources/equipment for schools. It also embedded school-cricket club links and pathways.
Increase the % of funding available for clubs from the Big Lottery Fund, not decrease it as has happened in recent years
This is rapidly turning into work so I'll leave it at that!
Cricket leagues and committees to recognise the modern demands on players of all ages and abilities - be more adaptable with your formats, times and rules.
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Ground shares just wouldn't work practically. We've got 10 tracks, 2 at each end are unsuitable for games as they make the boundary too short so we use them for on square practice and junior games for the local school. By their very nature, they have a finite amount of times they can be used and by the time we get toward the back end of a season we are struggling for pitches and we only have one team playing both on Saturday and Sunday.
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Ground shares just wouldn't work practically. We've got 10 tracks, 2 at each end are unsuitable for games as they make the boundary too short so we use them for on square practice and junior games for the local school. By their very nature, they have a finite amount of times they can be used and by the time we get toward the back end of a season we are struggling for pitches and we only have one team playing both on Saturday and Sunday.
Yours might be a one off. We have 1 team both days and ground share on a Sunday, but not a Saturday at present. Our square looks virtually untouched come the end of the season, with a bit of careful planning. Our club benefits by approx £500+ due to this arrangement and it helps with players on the Saturday.
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One thing I would like to see is more help with the machinery to help improve the standard of pitches. A few years ago we built a new ground with the help of a grant. We are always looking to improve our machinery to make the pitch better but there is no help, this is very frustrating.
I also think flexibility in the time games start would make a massive difference. The only people that I know of who play morning cricket is the junior teams. Even if the start was brought forward by a hour I think it would make a difference
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Two words - Sugar Tax
It's about time we taxed food/soft drinks known to be unheathy and plough some or all of that money back into promoting a healthy lifestyle.
Entirely selfish due to my job but please no! Kids and grown ups would not love it so!
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Do something about the problem with selections. It's often a case of "i'm going to pick all my mates" or 3 or 4 people doing everything and the rest just fielding. Removing captains from the process entirely might help, that way they have to work with what they get given. Again at junior level, do something to stop coaches from using the same kids to do everything and leaving everyone else feeling left out.
Develop player pools so those of us who don't get selected and are available to play can be put on a list for other clubs to see and choose from when they find themselves short of players.
Grants to improve grounds and equipment, some grounds are in absolutely terrible states of repair because clubs just can't afford to fix them up a bit or lack even a heavy roller that works.
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Develop player pools so those of us who don't get selected and are available to play can be put on a list for other clubs to see and choose from.
we have this in the Somerset league. I think it's an excellent idea. However it was only used 32 times in the whole season. I think larger clubs don't want to lose players and so aren't keen to lend them out. I would love to play for a few other clubs but we sometimes stuggle for players.
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They also do it in the Wetherby League. It's success depends on club attitudes. When I was at Headingley we were initially resistant but then we saw the opportunity of getting some of our guys some meaningful match practise. Worked well since and I don't think anybody has come back from a game demanding a move. Player pools are ripe for abuse, ie. sticking a decent player in a 2s game can massively distort results or even a season, so they have to have ground rules but can work well.
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They introduced this in our league in Bristol this year as well .
Has been slow to take off but generally well received and I think it will be used more in the coming seasons.
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They introduced this in our league in Bristol this year as well .
Has been slow to take off but generally well received and I think it will be used more in the coming seasons.
they did but it was only allowed in division 10-12. Has there been any update for this year, now there's 17 divisions?
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Entirely selfish due to my job but please no! Kids and grown ups would not love it so!
Are you a Dentist? :D
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I would improve the state of the game in secondary schools
Primary schools have quick cricket, which is great but there is nothing to follow up from this
At my school the year seven-nine pupils have 1 half term a year doing cricket for one week, but the lack of specialist skills in teaching means that normally it is just a short game with a windball where 3 or 4 players dominate the game. Everyone else just stands round for an hour talking and nothing constructive happens in the whole hour
That is the problem because from this kids get a negative perception of the game, so don't get excited by it
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Are you a Dentist? :D
Work for Haribo, my dentist loves me :D
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they did but it was only allowed in division 10-12. Has there been any update for this year, now there's 17 divisions?
Not really been mentioned as far as I can remember so I imagine it will just be the same as last year i.e. the bottom two divisions
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Affraid to say it but unless you broadcast to the masses and get kids wanting to mimic there hero's you will never get the playing numbers up no matter how much you try. This then has to be followed by schools providing the facilities/oportunity to mimic those hero's. Only once cricket is re-engrained in youngsters will numbers increase.
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I could echo a lot of the comments and ideas posted
Looking back 25 yrs or so, there must have been hundreds of cricket teams within a two or three mile radius of Nelson/Burnley
All playing in several different leagues across Lancashire and Yorkshire
The mid week leagues in nelson and Burnley attracted pros from the ribb and lancs league
It was the same for football in the area
There's very little cricket now, and football is also a shadow of what it once was.
I play in Oxfordshire now, and clubs are folding and struggling here
My sons in Somerset and teams/clubs are struggling there
I do think, a lot of it is the play station generation .
The cost to participate in sport bears no relation to wages etc.
Working hours and days have changed drastically
Sad times really
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So many things
1) Every council demands that for new developments dedicated sports grounds are built. Now, I know some will say they already are but they are inadequate, small and literally one small field for everything. I'd demand that each ground was build with the following. Small five a side size astro, a BIG cricket ground with at least 10 strips. A pavillion inbetween the cricket field and then on the other side, havea football and rugby pitch. Enough parking for 30 cars. The pavillion to have 6 large changing rooms, tea room, bar and a kitchen that can actually be used to cater for upto 100 people.n Oh and astro nets, 4 lane sealed in facility with fence and locks around it. (*You might say this costs a bomb BUT it actually doesn't for developers as things are cost price etc etc), Oh I'd have this fenced off and not 'public land' to be abused by ferel kids etc etc.
2) All these new grounds are taken on by the ECB (obviously under the local board) and the ECB provides the equipment needed (so cutters, rollers, outfield cutter, covers etc) - again, you say it's expensive but how much would the ECB be able to buy all this stuff for in bulk?? I'd imagine very cheaply (sky money etc).
3)These grounds are then issued to local clubs who subscribe to the new structure of only having 2 adult saturday league teams and 1 jnr side in each age group. No more 3xi, 4xi, 5xi, U15a, U15B etc etc. This will ensure that talent is spread around clubs and that no club will dominate purely because all the kids go. This will help players not get abused by selection, jnrs will need to be kept and played too..
4)I'd have each league have a structure that supports the following structure (using say a 15 division model as an example - obvioulsy you can split it down into feeder leagues etc etc)... top 4 divisions play 50 over win/lose/draw cricket with no field restrictions like silly circles etc. Bowlers allowed 10 overs max per bowler. second tier of 6 divs is 45 over win/lose, 9 per bowler, rest 40 over win/lose and 8 overs per bowler. Only top 6 divisons play leg side wides and offside wides, the rest are just 'old skool' rules.
5) Umpires/scorers etc can be used but I wouldn't enforce their use. From my experience board umpires give more LBW's even when wrong, and both take money out of the club. Might as well just have player umpires (no club umpires ever, they are 99% of the time just a 12th man and cheat)
6) We can't force the ECB to not let sky have cricket but they can fund cricket in state schools. Employ a few coaches (not looking for anyone special, just uni type students can do it so no one being paid mega bucks!) to go around schools and actually run fun cricket sessions and organise inter school games (as the boards 'own' local grounds these can be used easily to create links). Host holiday camps that ALL can attend free of charge rather than having silly coaching companies charging the earth for nothong other than a glorified nursery and again, taking money out the game.
7) Make the game cheaper. There is no reason the ECB can't buy in kit from India etc etc and people buy direct from them. Again, massive bulk ordering will ensure low purchase price and because the ECB aren't looing ot turn profits (or wouldn't be in this world), that provides top end kit for affordable prices (retailers will kick up but at least it'd create a competitive market and benefit the consumer). Added to this, no tea can be charged at more than £30, zero paid players outside the ECB Premier division.. that includes 'coaches' or whatever else you want to use to get around the rule. Anyone found or even believed by the local boards to be paying (even cash in hand behind the back door type stuff that we all know goes on), teams will lose pts and be denied promotions gained. Yes you'll get clubs saying 'prove it' but hey.. it might make them think twice before bringing that pro in, paying some local player etc.. these guys will play anyway, no need to pay them.
8) THis one will really cause issues with people.. outside of the top 4 divisions (you'd hope by this point peple would either be good or if they are sad and just want associating with a level then sod them)... If you bowl more than 5 overs (4 in 40 over cricket), you can't bat top 6. Basically, this ensure that EVERYONE in the team gets a game. People will say it'll affect competitiveness but at the amateur level, I say absolute rubbish.. If that number 6 can't bat, he won't last long anyway!! so your star all rounder coming in at 7 will be in anyway.
9) Run a U19 league on saturdays. 40 over stuff. Similar rules to above.. no player can do both etc etc etc. Now, anyone can choose to play adult cricket of course but for those still wanting to stay away from the aggressive adult stuff (and again, say it isn't if you like but adult cricket is getting more aggressive and sledging is on the increase) which so obviously contributes to putting youngsters off playing. This would also introduce them to longer format cricket as well from all the 2020 crap they'll have been playing (say start this league as 16-19yr olds).
10) ECB should fund old stars, current players to tour schools, clubs etc and basically just add that bit of star dust to clubs. People would love to see Flintoff, KP, Swann, Strauss at their club for a session, or even turn up at a game etc. Obviously don't send round random standard county pro's though, no one cares about them.. it's the stars you want to see...
11) ECB buying power.. The ECB could very easily supply clubs with cheap food stuffs for the season because it can buy in bulk. So basic things like crisps etc etc.. can all be brought through the ECB for cheap price and delivered on set dates to the club through the post (bit like some of hte food companies are doing now or even have an agreement with large supermarkets etc).. agian, this would reduce the price of items for clubs. Obviulsly gas/elec is all done in bulk too as the local boards own these new grounds
I don't believe people dislike formats from the past etc etc. If it was that, then games like hockey, football, rugby which are quick would be booming and they are also in sharp sharp terminal decline. It's simply that there are more things to be doing in modern life and sport is a bit committment that you also now, have to pay the world to play as it's not made easy for people. Too many are taken for mugs with club subs, match fees.. then stand around (kids and adults alike) and watch a select 4 players do the bulk of batting and bowling/. It's no wonder people quit. This type of rule is aimed at divisions 4 and below because participation is more important and you are also relying on the more casual types. The guys playing top 3-4 divisions are usually keen beans so I discount them. Again, if someone is happy to bat 7/8 and not bowl to sya they play a decent level then more fool them, no sympathy.
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3)These grounds are then issued to local clubs who subscribe to the new structure of only having 2 adult saturday league teams and 1 jnr side in each age group. No more 3xi, 4xi, 5xi, U15a, U15B etc etc. This will ensure that talent is spread around clubs and that no club will dominate purely because all the kids go. This will help players not get abused by selection, jnrs will need to be kept and played too..
So every two years you have 11 juniors you have to keep and play to.
Let's ignore the fact you can't keep someone if they done want to(uni, job, loss of interest etc) and let's pretend you can keep them all.
So who do they replace as you have to pick 11 juniors to play and your limited to 2 xis only.
Are we retiring people every two years? Kicking the older guys out?
11 juniors every two years who must be kept over a ten year period is 55 players, plus the 22 Adults you started with. 77 registered players to be picked from at a club that's restricted to 2 playing xis only.
That's gonna cause some serious selection issues and 55 disgruntled blokes.
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So every two years you have 11 juniors you have to keep and play to.
Let's ignore the fact you can't keep someone if they done want to(uni, job, loss of interest etc) and let's pretend you can keep them all.
So who do they replace as you have to pick 11 juniors to play and your limited to 2 xis only.
Are we retiring people every two years? Kicking the older guys out?
11 juniors every two years who must be kept over a ten year period is 55 players, plus the 22 Adults you started with. 77 registered players to be picked from at a club that's restricted to 2 playing xis only.
That's gonna cause some serious selection issues and 55 disgruntled blokes.
True, or players would move on to other clubs ?? I get your point but if you increase teams to 3/4/5xi then immediately it's filled up and you end up where we are now.. A few super clubs and the rest dying. Tbh, I doubt many clubs would bother with youth teams like the old days as there wouldn't be the point and there isn't enough youth anyway. So even if club a brought through 11 players, chances are most /all would move on anyway. If you retire people then they just move on. Club gets a rep for just moving on people and soon enough people won't join.
Again, in the past when more played the game we didn't have all these jnr sides/leagues so why suddenly is it needed?? Maybe because it sells kit ?!?!?!
Anyway, it's hardly a thought through theory. Im sure we can pick holes in every point everyone makes.
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Your number one point above is a million quid to build easily. I've just built a small 5 a side astro for a local football club, cost 70 grand alone. The car park would cost 50 grand, depending on the spec of the field 100 grand, the fencing around the perimeter for decent stuff would be 60 quid a metre. Developers are into development to make money, they won't give it away
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Our 2 lane net with security fence and lockable gates is costing 54k
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Your number one point above is a million quid to build easily. I've just built a small 5 a side astro for a local football club, cost 70 grand alone. The car park would cost 50 grand, depending on the spec of the field 100 grand, the fencing around the perimeter for decent stuff would be 60 quid a metre. Developers are into development to make money, they won't give it away
true, but if the govt allowed developments, especially on green field sites etc.. you might just find that 1-2M is very very very small fry to a developer!
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Our 2 lane net with security fence and lockable gates is costing 54k
again, just off the top of my head.. imagine.. rather than paying cricketcompany.com to do the work for you.. they employed a team of builders and brought huge quantities of materials... I wonder how many 4 lane astros could be built by a team of 6 in 5 years for example (thinking out loud, hardly a thought through plan)
54k for 2 lane net is extortionate
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again, just off the top of my head.. imagine.. rather than paying cricketcompany.com to do the work for you.. they employed a team of builders and brought huge quantities of materials... I wonder how many 4 lane astros could be built by a team of 6 in 5 years for example (thinking out loud, hardly a thought through plan)
54k for 2 lane net is extortionate
It is, but it was given to us as a grant to improve our facilities, and is only set aside for the 2 lane net. We aren't allowed to find a cheaper fitter and spend the cash elsewhere.
If we did, we'd lose the grant. Rules are baffling.
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I agree with alot of pro cricket says but the margins from developors on housing projects is really slim. Modern livestyles destroying sport and as already mentioned people mention there is a huge change in attitude. Alot of sports clubs have lost there soul. Its not about to change.
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It is, but it was given to us as a grant to improve our facilities, and is only set aside for the 2 lane net. We aren't allowed to find a cheaper fitter and spend the cash elsewhere.
If we did, we'd lose the grant. Rules are baffling.
Incredible isn't it. We're going through the same process right now.
You have the choice of about two fitters who have likely artificially increased the prices to suit themselves. Pretty certain we could have done it ourselves for around 10k. Instead, we raised 5k and used that money to pay a company to source grants (they make 10%) and then the grants pay the stupidly high sum for us. Pathetic really...!
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Minor change just announced for part of the middlesex league where i play no change to overs but games start at 1230 which is earlier than last year-the thinking is to stop very late finishes
I like this idea myself..yes its a bit hard if you work sat mornings but its something
Also proposed but not accepted all games to be 40/40 win or lose
This didnt get thru
For league cricket is a draw still the option or have most leagues changed to win or lose?
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We've been win / lose for pretty much as long as I can remember in Bristol.
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Do you have 45 overs each side? or does it depend which division the games are in? i.e. higher the division the more overs are played? so getting towards replicating minor counties cricket..... :)
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Do you have 45 overs each side? or does it depend which division the games are in? i.e. higher the division the more overs are played? so getting towards replicating minor counties cricket..... :)
In our league it's win / lose and 45 overs per side. This is the best format for me. We also start our games at 1:30 to try and avoid late finishes. Think all games need to be completed by 7.30pm at the latest. This then gives people at least a small chance of going out for the evening.
Can't stand timed cricket. I'd find it soul destroying if you batted a team out of the game, only for the opposition to come in from ball one and play for the draw.
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Do you have 45 overs each side? or does it depend which division the games are in? i.e. higher the division the more overs are played? so getting towards replicating minor counties cricket..... :)
40/45 depending on divison in the Bristol leagues, then the regional premier league is 50, so more overs the higher you play yep.
Are there really that many draw leagues out there? I've played a bit of draw cricket but leagues have always been win/lose.
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actually the reason i'm asking is because I think Middlesex is a bit behind the rest of the Country, as in we don't play limited overs cricket and so a draw is possible yes......less draws nowadays compared to before but still draws....you can get 4 points or 1 point from a drawn game depending on run-rate, more points obviously for a higher run rate..
As an experiment last season a few league games in the higher divisions had 50/50 win/lose as part of the league programme-these limited overs games are increasing this year-so they are mixing and matching
I totally agree playing for a draw from the outset is probably what's turning people off. So....slowly they are trying to make the game more exciting
Personally I've been playing a long time and would rather give it 100 per cent to win, and if you lose dust yourself down and get in the pub...a draw can be a total waste of time
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In our structure as far as I'm aware the teams in prem/div1 clubs voted for win loose after being asked by the league but then the league rejected it
I hate draws as breeds poor cricket too often
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We have 45 overs win lose or draw. We have 1 side in Div 7. Our wicket is a road, we end up 5th or 6th most seasons with so many draws, lose the toss we have to bat first. No chance of bowling a side out. Very dull cricket.
To fix club cricket I think in the lower leagues you need to play 40 overs a side. Chance to get back early but also bring back some of the Saturday working players who cant make these 1pm or 1:30 starts. To help out clubs stop with these stupid £10 fines for not rating an umpire, team spirit etc. Teams r struggling financially and our league has £82,000 in the bank.
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I think club league cricket gets caught in a professional v amateur issue with draws.
As a top level league you want to encourage teams to play hard and players to be ready for a higher level. A draw, like in county cricket, encourages teams to work for a win and creates good habits in future pro's - ie. not throwing your wicket away. Align that with 50/55/65 over cricket and no restrictions on bowlers and you have a breeding ground for longer form and higher level cricket.
However, most of your average cricketers aren't going to play a higher level. Most would rather play win lose and restrict overs for bowlers. The lower the league, the more clear cut the format people prefer. It comes a cropper where you have a league that is trying encourage a high standard of cricket but appease the average clubbie.
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Just to follow on.
The solution is to have a 1st/2nd XI club league that plays a high standard - ECB Prem for example. If you want to progress to being a paid sportsman then slog it out in a win/draw/lose format and the 2nd XI is a development/feeder team. Below that play 45/50 over win lose but called a separate league and don't pay anybody! Draw a line in the sand and let clubs make a choice, and cricketers. This kind of happens at present but the lines are blurred as clubs play different formats with 3/4/5 different teams in the same division. Draw the line, play distinct types of cricket and let clubs choose the way to go. My only caveat would be that any big club with more than 2 teams in a top level league either disbands the lower teams or creates a different playing entity - affiliated to the parent club yes, but totally independent in terms of selection.
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How would you police the non-paying of players though? I've seen a few teams in the North East get round this by claiming they're not paying anybody, but it's common knowledge that they do.
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How would you police the non-paying of players though? I've seen a few teams in the North East get round this by claiming they're not paying anybody, but it's common knowledge that they do.
Never easy is it! Had similar problems in one of my leagues. I think the easy answer is to come down hard on clubs, if they get caught it's a ban from all league cricket or demotion to the bottom level (plus a ban for the entire 1st XI) - put it all on the line if you cheat the system.
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How would you police the non-paying of players though? I've seen a few teams in the North East get round this by claiming they're not paying anybody, but it's common knowledge that they do.
Got a few of these in my leagues, infact weve got one in our club!
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I hate draws as breeds poor cricket too often
I feel the complete opposite. 2 years of draw and two years of win lose and the quality is marked.. Win lose is far far poorer and dominated by hitters and poor tactics. Draws produced 3-4 'boring' games but in the whole, teams and to work for their wins, more players get a game and games seem to always have a point.
I'd have two league systems, have a draw league that feeds to minor county and a win lose that just plays for fun
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Got a few of these in my leagues, infact weve got one in our club!
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As nick says, just ban the first team players and demote the club.. Soon stop the practice as it won't be worth the risk
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You pay them as a coach not a player......
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You pay them as a coach not a player......
leagues need the bottle to say that's not an acceptable excuse, they won't of course so it's a mute point anyway
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I would go win/lose. Draw cricket loses too many players.
I think reading through this thread shows the barriers in club cricket. Grounds, facilities, paid players and coaches. We cant raise that money and existing clubs fleece kids and clubmen to pay overseas pros, backhanders and oak panelled walls. If we dont look after players being treated like mugs and lower our facility expectaions we will die quicker than rugby and football.
New clubs have got it hard. We are doing well because we charge the lowest annual subs im aware of. £30 including a shirt. But the stories we hear about treatment of players shocks me.
How would i improve my club? Win the lottery and bank roll it. With a totally different attitude to the big clubs near me.
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leagues need the bottle to say that's not an acceptable excuse, they won't of course so it's a mute point anyway
My old club wouldn't have got to the level we have got without the benefits of a overseas coach, it goes right through the whole club from the top level down to the juniors, the wealth of knowledge they provide!
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I would go win/lose. Draw cricket loses too many players.
Does it? Or is that the myth perpetuated ?? Numbers are falling with win lose just as much (as well as he skill levels)
Imknow the modern thinking is draw is Boring etc but most I speak to either have never played it (so are repeating stories and are scared of change) or guys who have played it and all agree you get a few 'Boring' draws when either yiu or they bat it out but on the whole it's better, more tactical and requires more skill than just hitting and then defending and waiting for batsmen to play cramp shots even if they are more than good enough to stay in and bat properly
As I say, should be two systems.. One for draws to produce proper players for pros and one win/lose for players who just play for a hit and giggle
I could point to the falling participation in 2020 cup and leagues too to demonstrate that win/lose isn't the answer either. Main reason I hear about 2020 is that only about half the team get any type of meaningful game., surely that's the key to it all!! Make every player have a purpose and not just be mugged off by their club or due to win lose, forced to slog and get out if they could bat with a purpose (ie, the draw)
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It's a double edged sword if you think about it. Win/loss brings the issues of biffing over proper technique and the age old 5-6 people doing everything problem, yet having the ability to play for draws brings with it the chance that a match will be boring if a team decides to dig in and bat out the draw.
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I think some unfairly believe that Win / Lose cricket is just for sloggers and those with poor technique. Let's look at modern day cricket, and what it's become. It's about attacking stroke play and being able to invent shots out of nothing. But you still don't get anywhere by slogging out in the first 10 overs.
I'd say a culture of Win / Lose leagues would unearth the types of player we desperately need. Anyone who is just looking to slog will get found out very quickly.
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It's a double edged sword if you think about it. Win/loss brings the issues of biffing over proper technique and the age old 5-6 people doing everything problem, yet having the ability to play for draws brings with it the chance that a match will be boring if a team decides to dig in and bat out the draw.
To correct my comment, ive lost alot of players in the last 4 years and i am unable to convince players to play for us who gave up because they hate draw cricket.
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It's a double edged sword if you think about it. Win/loss brings the issues of biffing over proper technique and the age old 5-6 people doing everything problem, yet having the ability to play for draws brings with it the chance that a match will be boring if a team decides to dig in and bat out the draw.
Everyone blames the team who digs in.. Why?? Why does no one question the other team.. Did they score to many runs? Is their bowling good enough?? Did they attack enough with field placements ? Does the skipper just expect batsmen to give it away and then cry when they don't? Is the bowling line up decent or rely on one / two good bowlers and if they don't skittle a team they struggle.. Is the team a batting team only?? Do they need to hit the runs but quicker and declare, so giving more time to bowl a sore out and tempt a team to go for it
Etc etc
This seems to be missed by the win lose lovers
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Persobpnnally i like win lose draw because the game never becomes pointless although the best game ive played in are win/lose. I agree you @hilly_2015
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I think some unfairly believe that Win / Lose cricket is just for sloggers and those with poor technique. Let's look at modern day cricket, and what it's become. It's about attacking stroke play and being able to invent shots out of nothing. But you still don't get anywhere by slogging out in the first 10 overs.
I'd say a culture of Win / Lose leagues would unearth the types of player we desperately need. Anyone who is just looking to slog will get found out very quickly.
What players are desperately needed?? Hales?? Roy?? Really?? There are loads of middle order hitters around.mthe players lacking are the proper players !!
Biffers aren't found out, just look at the amount around. Flatter wickets make it easier to hit through the line etc.
Meh, I argue becUse it's sad to see but it won't change. A,auteur game will get shorter and shorter and player numbers will keep going down. Pro stuff will again, keep becoming more like 2020 and tests will be 500 plays 500 or thrsshings .
Eeyore
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I'm all for Draw cricket
I think the type of player I am I would be better suited to win/lose but I want to improve, and personally draw cricket is the answer to that
However saying that I could name one or two of my teammates who are coming from the other angle. Their game is naturally suited to draw cricket because they feel they get more opportunity to dig in and play a proper innings
All in all, such is the complex nature of the sport, not one way is going to solve it. There is no way of inducing one change that will completely solve it
We just have to live with it I think an provide all feasible options to provide as much participation as possible
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think some unfairly believe that Win / Lose cricket is just for sloggers and those with poor technique. Let's look at modern day cricket, and what it's become. It's about attacking stroke play and being able to invent shots out of nothing. But you still don't get anywhere by slogging out in the first 10 overs.
I'd say a culture of Win / Lose leagues would unearth the types of player we desperately need. Anyone who is just looking to slog will get found out very quickly.
It's for hitters (different to sloggers), guys who just hit through the line and don't really care if it's on the up etc.. That's a white ball technique and breeds players like hales, buttler, stokes,Roy
Proper cricket will breed these too as you need a balanced batting lineup but you'll also get Strauss's, cooks, comptons, athertons etc these players will not survive in hitter cricket
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What players are desperately needed?? Hales?? Roy?? Really?? There are loads of middle order hitters around.mthe players lacking are the proper players !!
Biffers aren't found out, just look at the amount around. Flatter wickets make it easier to hit through the line etc.
Meh, I argue becUse it's sad to see but it won't change. A,auteur game will get shorter and shorter and player numbers will keep going down. Pro stuff will again, keep becoming more like 2020 and tests will be 500 plays 500 or thrsshings .
Eeyore
It's for hitters (different to sloggers), guys who just hit through the line and don't really care if it's on the up etc.. That's a white ball technique and breeds players like hales, buttler, stokes,Roy
Proper cricket will breed these too as you need a balanced batting lineup but you'll also get Strauss's, cooks, comptons, athertons etc these players will not survive in hitter cricket
Maybe I'm a glass half full kind of guy? I believe there's room for both types of player in Win / Lose cricket - just like you feel like 'proper' cricket will do this too.
As mentioned previously, our club plays 45 Over Win / Lose cricket and we have a wide variety of players... Your typical opening batsmen who will bat all day and just keep things ticking along... Your middle order batsmen who play through the line of the ball and take the more risky approach and finally, the bowlers....god bless them. :)
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Here's an interesting plan from a club in Cornwall to keep hold of players - free cricket. No match fees, no subs, they'll even pay travel costs! Very lucky to be in a position they can do it I guess!
http://pencarrowcricketclub.weebly.com/news.html (http://pencarrowcricketclub.weebly.com/news.html)
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Here's an interesting plan from a club in Cornwall to keep hold of players - free cricket. No match fees, no subs, they'll even pay travel costs! Very lucky to be in a position they can do it I guess!
[url]http://pencarrowcricketclub.weebly.com/news.html[/url] ([url]http://pencarrowcricketclub.weebly.com/news.html[/url])
I'll be playing in the same league as Pencarrow this year. They've been promoted in consecutive seasons and maybe 3 times in 4 and had a decent side last year. They have apparently lost the core of their side over the winter and I think this has been done partly in hope of retaining a strong enough side to compete in the division
Might be seen as controversial to some considering that last year they had a crowdfunder campaign to raise money for their ground. So you wouldn't think they had a great deal of money to roll out this scheme. It will be a considerable sum lost over the course of the season and as its the 3rd tier of Cornish cricket there is no great financial gain for staying in the division
Good luck to them anyway, its a beautiful ground and the scene of my first league 50 as a wristy young lad of 15
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I'll be playing in the same league as Pencarrow this year. They've been promoted in consecutive seasons and maybe 3 times in 4 and had a decent side last year. They have apparently lost the core of their side over the winter and I think this has been done partly in hope of retaining a strong enough side to compete in the division
Might be seen as controversial to some considering that last year they had a crowdfunder campaign to raise money for their ground. So you wouldn't think they had a great deal of money to roll out this scheme. It will be a considerable sum lost over the course of the season and as its the 3rd tier of Cornish cricket there is no great financial gain for staying on the division
I was going to say it seems a bit wrong to raise 3k via crowdfunding and then give the members a freebie. What happens when something else breaks down or goes wrong, another crowdfunding campaign? I would be fuming is I had contributed to the crowdfunding and then heard their members weren't going to pay a penny this season to maintain the ground.
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I was going to say it seems a bit wrong to raise 3k via crowdfunding and then give the members a freebie. What happens when something else breaks down or goes wrong, another crowdfunding campaign? I would be fuming is I had contributed to the crowdfunding and then heard their members weren't going to pay a penny this season to maintain the ground.
I agree with you fully Nick, I'd be asking questions if I had contributed.
They have two teams and if you work out the total that they won't be collecting in 2016 at match fees of £5 each it comes to a little shy of £2500, thats not even taking into account any membership fee. A considerable sum for any amateur club
As I said I wish them the best of luck - maybe they are pioneers, but it just seems counterproductive to me.
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Never heard of that
I get the money raised goes to the roller purchase, but who's gonna pay for a seasons worth of cricket?
I'm sure the majority of clubs in Cornwall are in similar positions regarding players etc as are a lot of village clubs around the uk
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it's certainly a moral issue here, perhaps we don't know all the details but unless that community are so desparate to have a cricket team they fund the players(I find that hard to believe but you never know!) it sounds wrong for players to play amateur cricket for free.
However...........we, as in a lot of us club members and players.......do need to think about new ways of funding cricket to survive going forward. Not easy at all but unless you have a benefactor, are subsidized by a church ground-about the lowest ground rent possible- or have rich players, it's a struggle to stay alive financially....
interesting stuff thou