Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: langer17 on January 16, 2017, 10:18:23 PM
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If we know that top end bats are not always the best, and off the shelf typically get graded on looks first (few exceptions here though) then why do we continue to fork out top dollar to buy them? My best bats have always been lower down on the price list when compared to some of the custom mades I've gotten;
My Helios Atlas (really a Newbery GT) was $300 when I bought it back in 2011 and it is easily the best bat I have owned. It performs and more importantly, it just feels right in my hands. 5 years on and it's still going strong. Now the SS I bought the other day was $350 and it too just feels right in the hands, but it genuinely feels better tome than the Affinity Persona I recently purchased, which was almost double the price. I think this is solely down to the mental factor of me picking the SS based on feel, whereas the Affinity was sent across without me having any prior physical input and it didn't turn out exactly how I had hoped. It's not bad at all and is actually very good, but when you visualize something and your vision doesn't come true then you always have those thoughts there. In saying that, had it turned out how I hoped I wouldn't have purchased the SS, so it worked out well for me.
Reading most the reasons for people selling bats on here most of us value feel/pickup/balance in the hands as the most important factor with a bat, be it due to a certain bat or handle shape or weight, feel seems to be the number 1. You never see anyone on here go; I bought this expensive bat and it's a dud so I'm going to sell it on haha. Most of the time it is because it didn't feel right to them or they had another that simply felt better. Often people make a loss on their original purchase price even though they often sell a product near its original condition.
I guess to come full circle, it would be good if we could create a new baseline for buying bats because the only reason cricket retailers get away with listing multiple bats for AUD $1000+ is because people buy them. Right now the baseline seems to be $600 for most bats which used to be the absolute creme of the crop not even 6 years back.
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I think As the cost of cricket bats rocket a new baseline will be created as the top end and higher grades they will become to expensive for the club cricketer.
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They already are... and I cut my cloth accordingly. In any case, bavette steak tastes better than fillet...
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They already are...
Indeed they are, I don't recall the last time I bought a new grade 1 bat, maybe 10 years ago.
I was told by a very well known bat maker a well pressed grade 2 is just as good so I stopped buying top of the range. To prove the point my latest bat is a grade 3. But it does feel nice to pick up so that good enough for me.
second hand I might get a top of the range but I believe it's in the pressing rather than the quality of the wood. And anyway grade 2 is often a grade 1 but with blemishes that make no difference whatsoever-just cosmetic.
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the top end and higher grades they will become to expensive for the club cricketer.
Already happened years ago mate. I don't get this whole people will pay it so we'll charge it malarkey. Top end prices have doubled in the last few years due to clever marketing, sponsorship costs needing to be recouped etc.
In that time allowing for inflation etc I bet manufacturing and raw material costs haven't gone up more than 10-15%.
Most top end bats simply aren't worth the money, especially for a club cricketer with a young family. Heck, even some of the lower end bats are out of a lot of people's price ranges. People on here see others spending ridiculous sums on a piece of wood and think I'll have some of that too, it'll make me a better player but most of the time it's a placebo effect and this forum is a very small group of bat nerds/affectionados/tragics in real context.
Better off buying a cheaper grade 2 or 3 bat with a bit of character and having lessons than spending 100s on grade 1+++++++++++ willow if you ask me.
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Yeah the SS I recently got is a grade 3 and it stacks up very well.
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It depends on what you want from your bat. I expect the absolute top end of bats to not only perform well, but look nice as well. I'll admit that cosmetics were a factor, but not the only factor, in my most recent purchase 3 seasons ago. I bought my bat for AU$750 (I posted pics of it on here back when I purchased it), and it not only looks stunning but is the best bat I've ever used, better than the GN Legend I had previously. It is still going strong now and I'm not one to buy bats every season just because I can. So for me an outlay of that amount for 4-5 years solid use is fine. There is a point however where bats are getting grotesquely expensive. There were some Gunn and Moore bats in the Greg Chappell catalogue that were up around AU$1500, which is obscene and I could never justify purchasing a bat for that price. In time the 750-800 price bracket will probably end up being the "good performance but not the best looking" category. I don't know where we will go from there. Cricket may become an elitist sport given how expensive equipment is getting and the working class will simply not be able to afford it. That would be a say day indeed, it may even be happening now...
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Wages haven't risen in real terms in Australia for the last 5 years but bats have significantly. Something has to give.
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My views and others might differ here, if bats lasted like they did 10+ years ago, i think the price could be justified.
Sadly this isnt the case with most guys only getting 1-2 seasons out of bats. My thought process is that why buy 1 bat at 800 that may not last me a season, when i can buy a couple bats lower end and still end up in the same position.
And when you see major companies such as Kookaburra selling grade 3 for 500 and grade 2 for 800 in Aus, no wonder people look elsewhere. Willow prices have not gone up that much in the last 10 years to justify $1500 bats in my opinion
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Agree with the ridiculous pricing. If the bats were made in Uk, the higher price is somewhat understandable, but for ASIAN made bats such a Kook/GN where labor cost is low, the prices being more than some of the Uk made ones doesn't make sense. As there is no single brand which has decent bats for decent prices these days, people will still be buying the high price stuff. To choose between not playing due to lack of equipment vs paying a high price and get to play the game they love, most will go for the latter any day.
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I ask the question late last year why the English market is so more competitive http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0), compare to the AUS market.
I think a large part of it is the lack of competition in AUS. In fact if you read the thread you see that one of the AUS retailers was a little upset by my questioning of the price difference between the two markets.
I ended up buying a kook ghost from the uk.
So same grade willow from the same Indian factory, slightly differ specs, which I prefer eg oval handle and flat face. Freight cost from UK was $50 freight cost from Aus $25
I ended up saving over $300 aus from purchasing from the UK.
Now it comes down to either AUS retailers are paying far more for their stock than the UK retailers or they are greedy. Its been a long time since I have purchased a bat from AUS, and I expect my dollars will continue to flow to the UK and NZ.
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surprising there's not a cricket specialist on every corner seeing how much money's in them.
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I ask the question late last year why the English market is so more competitive [url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0[/url]), compare to the AUS market.
I think a large part of it is the lack of competition in AUS. In fact if you read the thread you see that one of the AUS retailers was a little upset by my questioning of the price difference between the two markets.
I ended up buying a kook ghost from the uk.
So same grade willow from the same Indian factory, slightly differ specs, which I prefer eg oval handle and flat face. Freight cost from UK was $50 freight cost from Aus $25
I ended up saving over $300 aus from purchasing from the UK.
Now it comes down to either AUS retailers are paying far more for their stock than the UK retailers or they are greedy. Its been a long time since I have purchased a bat from AUS, and I expect my dollars will continue to flow to the UK and NZ.
It's not competitive, prices are kept at a rate by the industry.
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I ask the question late last year why the English market is so more competitive [url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=40624.0[/url]), compare to the AUS market.
I think a large part of it is the lack of competition in AUS. In fact if you read the thread you see that one of the AUS retailers was a little upset by my questioning of the price difference between the two markets.
I ended up buying a kook ghost from the uk.
So same grade willow from the same Indian factory, slightly differ specs, which I prefer eg oval handle and flat face. Freight cost from UK was $50 freight cost from Aus $25
I ended up saving over $300 aus from purchasing from the UK.
Now it comes down to either AUS retailers are paying far more for their stock than the UK retailers or they are greedy. Its been a long time since I have purchased a bat from AUS, and I expect my dollars will continue to flow to the UK and NZ.
If those in Australia can accept the 'second option' so not actually seeing the bat or picking it up which agreed is not ideal.....then it begs the question why more of you don't buy this way
international shipping seems very reasonable, there will be duties as well, but looking at these numbers quoted for buying direct, is there something stopping more Australians buying here and getting it shipped over
are we missing any info here?
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It's not competitive, prices are kept at a rate by the industry.
finally a sensible answer, thanks mate.
so are the bats sold to different countries are different rates?
Because the locally made industy is dead in AUS ( less competion) bats are sold at a higher price to the Aussie retailer.
I guess there is certainly potential for the increase in aussies purchasing overseas and perhaps more grey imports.
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surprising there's not a cricket specialist on every corner seeing how much money's in them.
thanks again for your input Skip, would have save us a lot of typing if you just said " Aussie retailers pay a higher price for our bats than the Uk retailers"
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If those in Australia can accept the 'second option' so not actually seeing the bat or picking it up which agreed is not ideal.....then it begs the question why more of you don't buy this way
international shipping seems very reasonable, there will be duties as well, but looking at these numbers quoted for buying direct, is there something stopping more Australians buying here and getting it shipped over
are we missing any info here?
I think the trend for online and custom bats will continue to grow, perhaps the "industry" is unknowingly fueling this.
Look at what L&W and now B3 are doing to the US and AUS market, I think more will follow if the industry continue to try and milk the aussie market
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It's not competitive, prices are kept at a rate by the industry.
I think your right. Seems like a cynical excercise by the industry in setting each price point at a level they think is the absolute maximum amount of $$ they can squeeze out of us. Whether thats mum n dad buying for their kids, bat loving hackers or serious players. Nobody misses out in the price gouging! And we're notoriously compliant here. So nothings gonna change. We are also pretty average at supporting the little local guy. So it doesn't leave many options.
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I was discussing this recently with a few friends.
Bat prices seem to have sky rocketed without a genuine reason i.e. material costs etc have gone massively up etc...
Big brands are probably paying more in wages and fees for rent etc and sponsorships have increased but then the whole market seems to match if 1 raises prices
Don't get me wrong I have not seen any makers or retailers driving round in jags ( other than @Ayrtek Cricket ) so the money must be going somewhere
Weird as 10 years ago a top end bat was £250 and Laver were laughed at for charging £300-£400 but now there prices have not risen much but others have overtaken being £500 plus for top end.
Maybe its perception that if you had the same bat but different stickers with a £200 price difference would people now naturally assume the higher price one is of higher quality?
I think they would.
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Are retailers told what the lowest they can sell things for?
Whats to stop a sports direct type model with buying tons of stock and selling at rock bottom prices? There must be something as it has not happened.
Before we claim all retailers are crooks maybe we need to understand if they have instructions from brands on what they can and cannot do.
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finally a sensible answer, thanks mate.
so are the bats sold to different countries are different rates?
Because the locally made industy is dead in AUS ( less competion) bats are sold at a higher price to the Aussie retailer.
I guess there is certainly potential for the increase in aussies purchasing overseas and perhaps more grey imports.
I don't think the Aussie market is dead at all. Disposable income in Aus is high and they charge accordingly. A lot of blokes on here espouse buying English made and I'd rather buy Aussie made or from an Aussie retailer. Some of the best batmakers are here and there is just as much overpriced rubbish coming out of the UK as there is here. Dinger does a good job at Kooka, SK at GN is world class and there is a multitude of smaller brands if you're interested.
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Agree with the ridiculous pricing. If the bats were made in Uk, the higher price is somewhat understandable, but for ASIAN made bats such a Kook/GN where labor cost is low, the prices being more than some of the Uk made ones doesn't make sense. As there is no single brand which has decent bats for decent prices these days, people will still be buying the high price stuff. To choose between not playing due to lack of equipment vs paying a high price and get to play the game they love, most will go for the latter any day.
There was a chart on here showing a breakdown of costs import manufacturing etc profit was very decent
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Really?....they made a profit.....disgusting! They should just give the gear away so that we can all get G1 bats cheap as chips.
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I don't think the Aussie market is dead at all. Disposable income in Aus is high and they charge accordingly. A lot of blokes on here espouse buying English made and I'd rather buy Aussie made or from an Aussie retailer. Some of the best batmakers are here and there is just as much overpriced rubbish coming out of the UK as there is here. Dinger does a good job at Kooka, SK at GN is world class and there is a multitude of smaller brands if you're interested.
Agree SK is a great, but his bat's are only sold via a retailer, as for Dinger sorry don't know of him, I guess he makes for the local sponsor players and repairs, is the average Joe able to buy bats of him?
Fisher has closed, as has Imo the last great Aussie bat maker was JM, how I loved to watch him at his Capalaba factory produce some of the finest bats ever made.
Not really interested in buying part mades or of a guy who makes a handful of bats a year, but if you know of local quality bat makes please would love their details.
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A very interesting thread a meaningful discussion. Me being in India have started buying bats from a small boutique company in Bangalore reason being I was suddenly enlightened that I was paying way too much for these branded bats like SS,SG,BAS,BDM etc etc...Everyone here knows how many players SS,SG,BAS,NB etc sponsor & you can also imagine how much they would be paying as a sponsorship fees. End of the day they recover this money by high pricing their products. I personally have not found any difference in the quality of the bats I have bought from these guys in Bangalore. In fact I stay 600kms away from Bangalore....just spoke to them & told them what I want & they sent me exactly what I want....have already bought 3 bats from them & their prices are way way....reasonable compared to the biggies & no compromise in quality.
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Really?....they made a profit.....disgusting! They should just give the gear away so that we can all get G1 bats cheap as chips.
There's profit and then there's profit.....
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finally a sensible answer, thanks mate.
so are the bats sold to different countries are different rates?
Because the locally made industy is dead in AUS ( less competion) bats are sold at a higher price to the Aussie retailer.
I guess there is certainly potential for the increase in aussies purchasing overseas and perhaps more grey imports.
Prices appear greater in Australia, because prices are set for that market by the manufacturers. For the UK manufacturers who sell into Australia they would have based RRP/Trade Prices based on GBP. Now when we look back to March/April, the RRP and Trade Prices would have been set at an expected exchange rate of ~2AUD to 1GBP. Now that has obviously changed significantly post-Brexit - with the rate nearing 1.6AUD-1GBP.
A GM LE in Australia retails at around $960, which would have been £480 pre-Brexit (totally in line with GB pricing). Or £600 post-Brexit.
I expect next year, assuming our currency remains weak, we'll see UK cricket bat prices increasing significantly.
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Prices appear greater in Australia, because prices are set for that market by the manufacturers. For the UK manufacturers who sell into Australia they would have based RRP/Trade Prices based on GBP. Now when we look back to March/April, the RRP and Trade Prices would have been set at an expected exchange rate of ~2AUD to 1GBP. Now that has obviously changed significantly post-Brexit - with the rate nearing 1.6AUD-1GBP.
A GM LE in Australia retails at around $960, which would have been £480 pre-Brexit (totally in line with GB pricing). Or £600 post-Brexit.
I expect next year, assuming our currency remains weak, we'll see UK cricket bat prices increasing significantly.
Wouldn't the cost of bats subsequently go down in the foreign countries? The fall in the GBP surely means 95% of all bats just got cheaper in every country around the world as willow is exported? I have absolutely no idea of the price so these figures are plucked out the air but say a cleft is 100GBP or 150EUR to buy pre-brexit it is now only 130EUR to buy post brexit?
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Prices appear greater in Australia, because prices are set for that market by the manufacturers. For the UK manufacturers who sell into Australia they would have based RRP/Trade Prices based on GBP. Now when we look back to March/April, the RRP and Trade Prices would have been set at an expected exchange rate of ~2AUD to 1GBP. Now that has obviously changed significantly post-Brexit - with the rate nearing 1.6AUD-1GBP.
A GM LE in Australia retails at around $960, which would have been £480 pre-Brexit (totally in line with GB pricing). Or £600 post-Brexit.
I expect next year, assuming our currency remains weak, we'll see UK cricket bat prices increasing significantly.
Just from the big brands or across the board?
Why would this be because they need to raise more from exports or because their imports will be costing more?
I can see this affecting softs but struggle to see why this should affect uk made and sourced bats as no importing
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Wouldn't the cost of bats subsequently go down in the foreign countries? The fall in the GBP surely means 95% of all bats just got cheaper in every country around the world as willow is exported? I have absolutely no idea of the price so these figures are plucked out the air but say a cleft is 100GBP or 150EUR to buy pre-brexit it is now only 130EUR to buy post brexit?
The prices would have been set pre-Brexit, so the vast difference you're seeing in pricing between Australia and GBP retail stores has been exacerbated by exchange rate fluctuations.
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Just from the big brands or across the board?
Why would this be because they need to raise more from exports or because their imports will be costing more?
I can see this affecting softs but struggle to see why this should affect uk made and sourced bats as no importing
Rule 1. Prices always go up in the cricket world!
My thinking (and this is just a hypothesis) is: Even with UK made bats - I cannot see wages decreasing. I also cannot see willow decreasing. Import costs for handles/grips/stickers will have increased significantly. And, like you say, there's an opportunity to raise more from exports if you increase the GBP prices, rather than decrease AUD pricing.
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Hmmmm
yes I agree that 1 thing is certain in life is that prices will rise.
I hope they do not raise significantly due to brexit as no need to other than imports getting dearer so soft I can see but not bats.
If they kept prices stable or rise with inflation as usual with the weaker pound it could mean a boom in sales but depends on the business model of selling qty or quality. So lots of small profits or fewer large profits
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Back in 2011/2012 the Aus dollar was at the same rate compared to the GBP as it is now $1.6 AUD = 1 GBP. Prices are through the roof compared to then.
The reason the bats purchased from here (AUS) into the UK pre-brexit being on par with the market over there (UK) was due to the tanking Aus dollar, so any item purchased from Aus from another country would be laughing. Post brexit has returned it back to how it was back in 2011/2012 which was my heaviest gear buying phase
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The market in the UK is probably more competitive as more people play cricket over there so it is cheaper as there is more turnover (I think)
You can't even make the same argument as when you compare the US to AUS. IN the US they get most items/sporting gear/clothes etc much chaper than here, but then AUS does have universal healthcare (US obviously introduced something but it's average tbh) and minimum wage so you make the argument that we have it better off. As a diabetic I am very thankful for our healthcare system after reading how it is in the US. AUS and the UK are similar
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For my own experience I have not bought from the 'big' brands for a long time now, as the pricing is just too high for something you could get from a local bat maker, for me the bat can be the ugliest piece of willow around but if it performs and feels nice in my hand then that's fine for me, I've recently just been using butterflies and grade 3 laminates and have noticed if they are prepared properly then there as good as any around. the last time I purchased a grade 1 bat was 2/3 seasons ago I travelled to visit rob pack to ensure the bat felt right and after scoring 1300/1600 runs with it it still pings so id rather go to a local bat-maker than pay over the odds for something that I'm going to be disappointed with which is often the case with the Niger brands a lot aim for quantity over quality
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@langer17 If we look at RRP's (comparing Cricket Direct and Cricket Centre):
The RRP of the GM Luna Original LE in 2011 was £395. The equivalent bat is now at £565. A 43% increase.
In Australia the GM Icon Original LE in 2011 was $690. The equivalent bat is now at $995. A 44% increase.
So comparatively, you're probably right the AU market has always been more expensive - in the same way the Indian market has always been cheapest. I would still argue that right now it probably feels even more pertinent, and painful, because of the now weak GBP.
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I think it's reasonable to expect and Uk made bat to cost more to purchase in Aus as would a SK made GN in the UK.
What I would like to understand is the case of a Indian made, who is setting the prices for the coming out of India? and why are they inflating the price of the bat been sold into the AUS market.
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"grade 3 laminates" are you allowed to use these?
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I think it's reasonable to expect and Uk made bat to cost more to purchase in Aus as would a SK made GN in the UK.
What I would like to understand is the case of a Indian made, who is setting the prices for the coming out of India? and why are they inflating the price of the bat been sold into the AUS market.
Guess it's the same people who set the price of the Chinese made iPhone at $1079AUD ($820USD) compared to the $649 it costs in the USA. In some markets products just cost more.
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Import tax, transportation and customs to Aus are fairly significant. All imports be it washing powder to cars hold a fairly big premium i think.
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Surely all Aussies should be supporting their local industry, where young guys like JP Gavan, and Billy Barge at Vandal Cricket, are making some tremendous bats, and selling them at reasonable prices. Callen has gone, Fisher is downsizing, get out and help those lads to develop and grow, it has to be in the best interests of the industry, and cricket in general, down there.
http://www.jpgavan.com/ (http://www.jpgavan.com/)
http://www.vandalcricket.com/ (http://www.vandalcricket.com/)
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The pricing for Vandal custom bats is very reasonable!
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Young josh is a top bloke & very easy to deal with sydney based & his featherweight blade are awesome you want a top class repair or refurb he is the man steve smith loves his work
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My issue with local batmakers is the use of Aussie willow. I'm uncertain about it and am reluctant to spend $500 to test it out.They don't have stock in the local retail so once again I can't test it out.
Players edition GM is AUS$1500 at GCCC
Players edition GM is US$649 = AUS$861 at cricket merchants
the difference is too much to ignore. I chose GM as an example because their bats are all made in one place and are consistent
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Surely all Aussies should be supporting their local industry, where young guys like JP Gavan, and Billy Barge at Vandal Cricket, are making some tremendous bats, and selling them at reasonable prices. Callen has gone, Fisher is downsizing, get out and help those lads to develop and grow, it has to be in the best interests of the industry, and cricket in general, down there.
[url]http://www.jpgavan.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.jpgavan.com/[/url])
[url]http://www.vandalcricket.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.vandalcricket.com/[/url])
I agree.
Unless I'm out of the loop, Ian Callen is still going strong in Victoria too.
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My issue with local batmakers is the use of Aussie willow. I'm uncertain about it and am reluctant to spend $500 to test it out.They don't have stock in the local retail so once again I can't test it out.
Players edition GM is AUS$1500 at GCCC
Players edition GM is US$649 = AUS$861 at cricket merchants
the difference is too much to ignore. I chose GM as an example because their bats are all made in one place and are consistent
agree, I certainly wish the above listed aussie bat makers well but one of them is using part mades from India and the other blue willow ( aussie grown), so I still unware of anyone in Aus who would be on the same page as, B3, H4L, Red ink , L&W etc.
so a custom Grade 3 aussie grown willow made by Vandle $ 300 plus delivery or Grade 3 custom English willow made by B3 $320 inc delivery, pretty easy choice.
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Bradbury is the only one left using English willow. I have bought both Bradbury and Scat, so I have sort of helped local batmakers.
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Bradbury is the only one left using English willow. I have bought both Bradbury and Scat, so I have sort of helped local batmakers.
yes thanks I forgot about Bradbury, and they do make a fine stick, I would rate them,I have just put them on my next to buy list
The only other one which I have heard about is Impala Sports, but I don't know enough about them, anyone use them before?
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yes thanks I forgot about Bradbury, and they do make a fine stick, I would rate them,I have just put them on my next to buy list
The only other one which I have heard about is Impala Sports, but I don't know enough about them, anyone use them before?
Im just doing a refurb on my cousins impala. Nice enough bat, its just a midrange redback model but i remember seeing some absolute beauties at Maddox indoor nets where he got this from. They werent cheap though. Lots of concaving on this one so not my bag. I think i recall one model had holes drilled through the blank from edge to edge....
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I agree.
Unless I'm out of the loop, Ian Callen is still going strong in Victoria too.
Apologies, quite right, I stand corrected. I thought he was simply producing and selling Willow Blue now.
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Im just doing a refurb on my cousins impala. Nice enough bat, its just a midrange redback model but i remember seeing some absolute beauties at Maddox indoor nets where he got this from. They werent cheap though. Lots of concaving on this one so not my bag. I think i recall one model had holes drilled through the blank from edge to edge....
Yeah, they drill a hole and then insert carbon fibre rods. Bit gimmicky.