Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => Pakistan => Topic started by: SurreySam on September 17, 2021, 10:41:34 AM
-
News is circulating that NZ are withdrawing from the series due to security concerns:
https://wisden.com/series-stories/pakistan-v-new-zealand/pakistan-dispute-nz-security-concerns-after-tour-abandoned-minutes-before-first-odi (https://wisden.com/series-stories/pakistan-v-new-zealand/pakistan-dispute-nz-security-concerns-after-tour-abandoned-minutes-before-first-odi)
England are due out in Oct, so that could well be in the cancellation firing line now too. Disappointing for Pakistani cricket followers I'm sure.
-
Believe Eng/NZ have the same security consultants in some manner, will be staggered if that tour goes ahead now. Domino effect isn't too surprising.
-
zero chance any england side will go to pakistan now, brutal financially for the PCB to lose the NZ and the ENG series
-
stupid to even plan to go there anyway tbh.
-
This has been a very bad couple of weeks for the future of the intentional game. The system only works if countries are prepared to honour their commitments.
Particularly poor form from NZ given that Pakistan went to NZ a few months after the Christchurch terrorist incident
-
This has been a very bad couple of weeks for the future of the intentional game. The system only works if countries are prepared to honour their commitments.
Particularly poor form from NZ given that Pakistan went to NZ a few months after the Christchurch terrorist incident
Let's put it this way... Totally different circumstances and potential within the two countries it's laughable. a 'security consultant' also doesn't have half the information the NZ govt would have access to so I know which I'd believe.. it isn't the security consultant put it that way (or the media or anyone inside Pakistan)
Put it this way...
You have to visit one of the following counties:
USA or Afghan.. Which are you choosing ?? Yep.. USA .. WHY... because it's safer (even though both have guns etc etc etc)
-
Let's put it this way... Totally different circumstances and potential within the two countries it's laughable. a 'security consultant' also doesn't have half the information the NZ govt would have access to so I know which I'd believe.. it isn't the security consultant put it that way (or the media or anyone inside Pakistan)
Put it this way...
You have to visit one of the following counties:
USA or Afghan.. Which are you choosing ?? Yep.. USA .. WHY... because it's safer (even though both have guns etc etc etc)
That is a difference without a distinction.
England of course fulfilled a test commitment to India in 2008 in the aftermath of of Mumbai attacks despite the very obvious concerns for their safety.
Put it this way, would I go to Modi's India in a personal capacity at the moment? Not at all. Would I go there is a professional capacity with state security ? Yes I would.
-
That is a difference without a distinction.
England of course fulfilled a test commitment to India in 2008 in the aftermath of of Mumbai attacks despite the very obvious concerns for their safety.
Put it this way, would I go to Modi's India in a personal capacity at the moment? Not at all. Would I go there is a professional capacity with state security ? Yes I would.
Are you seriously comparing India with Pakistan in terms of security?? With all dues respect to Pakistan, India does not have a history of terrorist related incidents. India has never had a bomb blast outside the players' hotel. India has not had a terrorist attack on the players bus and players being evacuated.
Its a shame what happened. This has set Pakistan back years now in terms of return of International cricket again. But its not completely unbelievable given what happened recently in Afghanistan. NZ must have had a serious concern to have abandoned the tour like this. I am an Indian fan but my heart goes out to all the Pakistan cricket lovers.
-
"The tour, comprising three ODIs and five T20Is, was supposed to start today, with the first ODI in Rawalpindi, but neither team left their hotel on the morning of the game, and spectators were not allowed to enter the stadium."
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pak-vs-nz-2021-new-zealand-call-off-pakistan-tour-minutes-before-first-odi-citing-security-concerns-1278280 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pak-vs-nz-2021-new-zealand-call-off-pakistan-tour-minutes-before-first-odi-citing-security-concerns-1278280)
The team is already there - it is not as if they weren't in the country to begin with. This is very disappointing as this would've been a great series to watch.
-
Totally the right call from NZ and England hopefully follow suit and cancel the tour.
Pakistan needs cricket and world cricket needs Pakistan, no doubt about that.
I don’t know why they don’t revert back to being based in the UAE as they did before.
That would at least get them the fixtures and keep the team going. Not ideal for fans but security comes first.
-
Totally the right call from NZ and England hopefully follow suit and cancel the tour.
Pakistan needs cricket and world cricket needs Pakistan, no doubt about that.
I don’t know why they don’t revert back to being based in the UAE as they did before.
That would at least get them the fixtures and keep the team going. Not ideal for fans but security comes first.
Supposedly BCCI has signed a long term deal to have UAE as their fall back option. Pakistan can’t afford to compete with BCCI.
-
This has been a very bad couple of weeks for the future of the intentional game. The system only works if countries are prepared to honour their commitments.
Particularly poor form from NZ given that Pakistan went to NZ a few months after the Christchurch terrorist incident
This is the same utter crap being spread by Pakistani supporters all over Social media. Very disappointed that the likes of Darren Sammy are chiming in without any facts etc. Pakistan travelled to NZ after the Christchurch terror attack? We have had one horrific instance of terrorism, from a lone murderer in our history. Please don't even try and compare the two examples. Pakistan is the opposite and the mere fact that our team needed a small army to accompany them says it all really.
What would people have said if something happened and our Govt new about and did nothing? It's not worth it.
I feel sorry for Pakistan and its fans but let's not kid ourselves that Pakistan is safe in the slightest.
-
This has been a very bad couple of weeks for the future of the intentional game. The system only works if countries are prepared to honour their commitments.
Particularly poor form from NZ given that Pakistan went to NZ a few months after the Christchurch terrorist incident
Christchurch and Taliban not same level. Can't mess with Taliban
-
This is the same utter crap being spread by Pakistani supporters all over Social media. Very disappointed that the likes of Darren Sammy are chiming in without any facts etc. Pakistan travelled to NZ after the Christchurch terror attack? We have had one horrific instance of terrorism, from a lone murderer in our history. Please don't even try and compare the two examples. Pakistan is the opposite and the mere fact that our team needed a small army to accompany them says it all really.
What would people have said if something happened and our Govt new about and did nothing? It's not worth it.
I feel sorry for Pakistan and its fans but let's not kid ourselves that Pakistan is safe in the slightest.
True...very poor from of the celebrities. The worst of all was the Shahid Afridi tweet saying that NZ are leaving over a 'Hoax call'. Not sure what makes him so confident that it was a hoax call and not a real threat. Dont these celebrities understand that what they saw is read and believed by millions of their fans? Not surprising from Sammy really; given his close ties with Pakistan and PSL, I am surprised they havent given him an honorary citizenship already.
I even read comments that this was a planned move by the big 3 to take revenge against Pak! :o
-
If my country’s intelligence force told me it’s not safe to go, then i wouldn’t go. End of story!
Especially to a country where the prime minister has praised the Taliban
-
If my country’s intelligence force told me it’s not safe to go, then i wouldn’t go. End of story!
Especially to a country where the prime minister has praised the Taliban
Yes, IMRAN KHAN had launched an elaborate scheme to get NZ over so he could ship them over to the Taliban in Afghanistan. What a moronic comment.
All the other arguments here have been reasonable, but this was just utterly idiotic
-
Yes, IMRAN KHAN had launched an elaborate scheme to get NZ over so he could ship them over to the Taliban in Afghanistan. What a moronic comment.
All the other arguments here have been reasonable, but this was just utterly idiotic
Where did I say this
-
International cricket could very well be moving towards multiple governing bodies. I don't think ICC provides the balanced umbrella to all cricket playing nations. Either that or international cricket would be reduced to one or two countries playing against each other - NFL model.
Regardless, this trend of pulling out of tours or cancelling last minute just can't sustain international cricket as we know it. Without clauses in contracts for backup/alternate venues or later re-scheduling with monetary insurances, small (less lucrative) boards will suffer heavy financial losses.
-
ECB have now confirmed the tour for both men and women is off. its a shame but no body knows the security information that has lead to this.
It doesnt help all the players and ex players who are involved in PSL teams chiming in with their opinions to gain favour with the fans, Ramiz Raja's comments are nothing short of appalling accusing the ECB and NZ of making excuses so they didnt have to play them.
-
"The ECB has a longstanding commitment to tour Pakistan as part of the Men's Future Tours Programme in 2022.
"Earlier this year, we agreed to play two additional T20 World Cup warm-up games in Pakistan in October, adding a short women's tour with double headers alongside the men's games.
"The ECB Board convened this weekend to discuss these extra England Women's and Men's games in Pakistan and we can confirm that the Board has reluctantly decided to withdraw both teams from the October trip.
"The mental and physical well-being of our players and support staff remains our highest priority and this is even more critical given the times we are currently living in. We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region and believe that going ahead will add further pressure to a playing group who have already coped with a long period of operating in restricted Covid environments.
"There is the added complexity for our Men's T20 squad. We believe that touring under these conditions will not be ideal preparation for the ICC Men's T20 World Cup, where performing well remains a top priority for 2021.
"We understand that this decision will be a significant disappointment to the PCB, who have worked tirelessly to host the return of international cricket in their country. Their support of English and Welsh cricket over the last two summers has been a huge demonstration of friendship. We are sincerely sorry for the impact this will have on cricket in Pakistan and emphasise an ongoing commitment to our main touring plans there for 2022."
Ends
Official statement ^^^
-
There will be a lot of noise but whichever board it is there is the liability issue which, thankfully,has never had to be tackled so far, means the boards have to put players first and so they should.
Raja can say what he likes it makes no difference. There does have to be a way forward for Pakistan of course but I can only see making their base in the UAE, but if as others have posted on here India have that base as reserve but not using it is correct, you do wonder how they move forward for home games.
The simple answer was if indeed India have control of that facility but are not using it, it needs to be made available.
You would think that is unlikely given their relationship….
Perhaps it’s up to the big nations like us to find a way forward for not only Pakistan but other Countries who don’t have the financial clout we do.
A pipe dream maybe..
-
In the long run, this is probably the best thing that could've happened to Pak cricket and PCB.
-
The really interesting thing is that the ECB don't actually state its for security reasons. They mainly say about the bubbles and mental health of the players before the WC, that would be caused because of Covid and extra restrictions in Pakistan.
So in this case why aren't the Women touring? They don't have a WC. Also why don't we just forfill the tour with a group of players that are prepared to go, that aren't playing in the WC?
Then do the full tour in 2022.
-
The bubbles and mental stress on the players was all known months ago when the tour was planned.
The security risk was not until last week when the NZ team was targeted.
There’s no way the ECB would send our team after that. Why the security risk is not mentioned in the statement is odd.
Perhaps New Zealand’s decision is seen as enough for us.
There could be other reasons we don’t know about
-
They don't mention security risk, but they do say physical well-being of players and support staff. Which is a polite way of saying that they no longer feel safe.
-
We know there are increasing concerns about travelling to the region.
That's the mention of the security risk. I think it's the right call to cancel the tour.
-
If it’s a genuine security threat, then obviously makes sense to cancel. Intelligence should be shared, so the threat can be tackled.
But from the ecb statement, it seems more like players “feeling” uncomfortable, which can seem like a stab in the back to the Pakistan team. When covid was raging through the UK, the Pakistan team would have clearly “felt” uncomfortable, but they came and bailed the ecb out. Commentators at the time were all praise and couldn’t stop expressing gratitude. So if it’s just bubble fatigue and/or “feeling uncomfortable”, then it’s a massive betrayal.
A real, tangible security threat is another story of course.
-
So if it’s just bubble fatigue and/or “feeling uncomfortable”, then it’s a massive betrayal.
I think we will see some substantial changes made to international tour policies and punitive insurance/monetary elements associated with these tours. Also, we are moving towards a highly commercialized cricket world where amateurs/first-class players will represents national teams; polished veterans will play in commercial premiere league tournaments. I expect a multi-board cricket world in next 5-10 years with different money & political interests controlling those boards.
-
Taken some heat off NZ for the time being. You should see the offical Blackcaps FB page. Ridiculous.
In all seriousness though, if this is how their fans react imagine the people in Pakistan who actually want to hurt tourists.
-
If it’s a genuine security threat, then obviously makes sense to cancel. Intelligence should be shared, so the threat can be tackled.
If you think the ECB will be told of any genuine Int then you're very very mistaken. As for being 'shared'.. Don't be so stupid
-
amateurs players will represents national teams.
obviously edited a bit but that's an interesting concept.. If the Pro's can't be bothered to take it seriously then maybe returning it to amateur status and allow those who do wish to play represent the nation and leave the pro's to play T3, T5, T10, T16, T20 in IPL, SPL, EPL, RPL, CPL, BPL, BB, 100, 99, 76 comps
-
Pretty lousy from the ECB/England setup to be honest, poor Pakistan get stiffed again. At least New Zealand bothered to say there was a security threat rather than just give excuses.
-
Pretty lousy from the ECB/England setup to be honest, poor Pakistan get stiffed again. At least New Zealand bothered to say there was a security threat rather than just give excuses.
Can't disagree with this. If there's a genuine security threat then that's absolutely more than enough reason not to travel - which based on NZCB and ECB sharing the same security consultants you would assume is still relevant as threats in these regions don't just disappear overnight.
However the statement put out just seems to read a bit of a "it's an inconvenience and we'd prefer to be training elsewhere ahead of the T20 WC instead of playing a couple of meaningless games in Pakistan".
-
lets hope it is a genuine security issues as if it is just 'bubble issues' then it is pretty poor considering pakistan came over last year to play in the UK
-
As security issues not flagged as a key concern it does seem more that players are taking a more CBA approach,( I am being flippant as I am sure bubble life is tough) perhaps based on India !
No reason why an England A team could not be sent or also continue with the womens tour?
UAE doesnt really help as Pakistan need income from fans in stadium and more interest then to also watch on tv
But if security is the key driver then say so!
-
NZ team were already in Pakistan so looks pretty obvious that the threat was maybe 'real' otherwise why bother. Once NZ backed off there was no way England Players would go there. The message around the reasons could have been better from ECB.
-
Its quite interesting that despite being provided with presidential level of security NZ refused to play and cancelled. Also, they didnt want to disclose the details of the threat to PCB or Pak govt.
Either they stiffed Pak or the threat could have been from someone within the authorities. Very mysterious!
-
the statement from the ECB reads as if someone in PR and Marketing has written it, and tried to add an excuse. Its not good from them.
I can understand the NZ team going if there was a credible threat, they havent added any other reasons. I doubt we will ever know the real reasons behind the england tour but i can imagine that players had the big say in it and once the majority said no, they had to call both tours off.
none of the pundits chucking in their 50p opinions because they want gig on the PSL are helping, they know the same amount of information as we do. Mark Butcher and Ebony Brent behaving like the players just dint fancy it.
I have read today that there has been a threat on the NZ womens team today but not deemed credible, if thats the case and a reaction to the tours being cancelled then the decisions were fully justified. peoples lives are more important than cricket
-
The ECB statement might as well have said 'didn't fancy it', there wasn't a lot else in there. If it was a security problem, why not say? Player power shouldn't have got it cancelled when we were happy to play a second XI at home, wouldn't have been difficult to find enough players for a four day tour. Piss poor, media reports Pakistan are already looking for a replacement team for the tour England are supposed to be doing next winter and you can hardly blame them.
-
Piss poor from the ECB after Pakistan helped them out big time last year. Pretty sure they stayed here in a bubble for almost 2 months in a country that was significantly worse off with COVID. I find it very hard to believe they couldn't cobble together a squad of 14 players for a 4 day tour considering how many have been to play in the PSL in Pakistan. That being said, i dont think its because its Pakistan. The ECB have form for this cancelling SA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and now Pakistan in the last 18 months. Covid obviously played a role but its a pattern that i imagine will cost them in the long run somehow. There arent that many cricket playing nations its worth organising a tour with, they seem to have pissed off half the list in the year and a half.
-
The ECB have form for this cancelling SA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and now Pakistan in the last 18 months. Covid obviously played a role but its a pattern that i imagine will cost them in the long run somehow. There arent that many cricket playing nations its worth organising a tour with, they seem to have pissed off half the list in the year and a half.
Incentive is simply not that big enough. Many players are making big bucks in private leagues. Why bother? It makes sense that India players pulled out of Test-5 to play in IPL.
Money has found its way in cricket and players have a taste for it now. They will go where the money is, simple. Cricket stuck to the classic model for a long time but now boards will have to wrestle with these new questions and different ways of conducting business.
I don't see cricket going back to the old ways of doing business. Show me another sport where two nations played a 5-Test series every two years. Cricket was unique it that sense. No more. Money talks and we will see more of that talking.
New boards. New governance. New leagues.
-
obviously edited a bit but that's an interesting concept.. If the Pro's can't be bothered to take it seriously then maybe returning it to amateur status and allow those who do wish to play represent the nation ...
This happens in all Olympic sports - those players get sponsored by some big brand. You know the drill.
Cricket was different and I think it was amazing that it stayed true to the classic model of sports for such a long time. We may be witnessing an irrevocable shift from this model.
-
Incentive is simply not that big enough. Many players are making big bucks in private leagues. Why bother?
Money has found its way in cricket and players have a taste for it now. They will go where the money is, simple. Cricket stuck to the classic model for a long time but now boards will have to wrestle with these new questions and different ways of conducting business.
I don't see cricket going back to the old ways of doing business. Show me another sport where two nations played a 5-Test series every two years. Cricket was unique it that sense. No more. Money talks and we will see more of that talking.
New boards. New governance. New leagues.
You're essentially describing the death of international cricket and most likely the ECB and all of the current cricket boards. A bunch of privatised leagues could bypass the current cricket management structure since the only real repercussions players could face is not being selected for international squads which you've implied will become an after thought anyway. Essentially what the ICL tried back in day but the stick you have to deter player participation is much smaller and largely ineffective.
-
Essentially what the ICL tried back in day but the stick you have to deter player participation is much smaller and largely ineffective.
Right.
Streaming tech is ubiquitous and most fans stream their cricket these days. TV broadcasters are not needed. If an international league is not affiliated with a cricket board, why would you need permission to work (read: play) as an employee (read: players) of an international league. Anyone seen WWE? :D
-
Right.
Streaming tech is ubiquitous and most fans stream their cricket these days. TV broadcasters are not needed. If an international league is not affiliated with a cricket board, why would you need permission to work (read: play) as an employee (read: players) of an international league. Anyone seen WWE? :D
Im sure it would result in a big legal battle but if international cricket becomes as irrelevant as your suggesting it could happen. Tbh there is no reason why international cricket on the T20/limited overs side cant be as successful as the IPL, its just marketing. Its not like its full of super teams. You are essentially watching the Indian T20 blast with a bunch of cheerleaders.
-
Uh oh - he is very unhappy! But he is also echoing a multi-board future...I am not surprised.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ramiz-raja-fears-west-versus-144838856.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ramiz-raja-fears-west-versus-144838856.html)
-
Another nice article. I didn't know Atherton wrote about this. Good man!
"English cricket, the governing body and players, had a chance to do the right thing this week," former England Test captain Michael Atherton wrote in The Times.
"They had a chance to repay a debt, uphold their honour and side with a cricketing nation that has undergone the kind of challenges others cannot even begin to contemplate.
"Instead, citing a mealy-mouthed statement, they did the wrong thing."
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pakistan-used-binned-england-over-132434746.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pakistan-used-binned-england-over-132434746.html)
-
Butch sums it up very well: https://youtu.be/vl_ppHozwFI
-
George Dobell with an excellent article as well: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-ecb-hypocrisy-and-double-standards-in-pakistan-tour-cancellation-could-lose-them-friends-1278788 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-ecb-hypocrisy-and-double-standards-in-pakistan-tour-cancellation-could-lose-them-friends-1278788)
It is now clear that there was no security issue concerning the UK government / high commission, which explains why the ecb did not mention it in their statement. And this makes it absolutely appalling and a real travesty.
-
Butch sums it up very well: https://youtu.be/vl_ppHozwFI
yep - very sensible points and can't really argue with anything said
-
it would explain why the ECB appeared to let the India team quit the tour so they could play IPL if they knew they were considering pulling out of the Pakistan tour. they were most likely going to send a 2nd team anyway.
What still confuses me if the NZ situation, there was a security issue which was deemed severe and credible enough for a team who were already there to pack up and leave with no notice. yet the british consulate in pakistan says there isnt one and throws the ECB under the bus, despite the ecb and NZ using the same security team/contacts.
Something doesnt add up, all the ECB had to do was echo the NZ statement and there would have been far less push back. instead they blame covid bubbles.
Its embarrassing that we have done this to the PCB but i doubt anyone will ever release the true reasons
-
Slap in the face for ECB with the UK High Commission issuing that statement. Surely security wasnt the issue then. Player fatigue doesnt make any sense either for a 4 day trip.
-
sounds worse and worse - didn't realise it was only a 4 day tour too - should have been able to do that - but then i expect there is a lot we don't know - just as with the India issue and why the IPL isn't playing 4 games a day to get it over with quickly
-
British High Commissioner to Pakistan, Christian Turner:
"I share the deep sadness of cricket fans that England will not tour Pakistan in October," Turner said. "This was a decision made by the ECB, which is independent of the British government based on concerns for player welfare. The British High Commission supported the tour, did not advise against in on security grounds, and our travel advice for Pakistan has not changed. I have been a champion of international cricket's return to Pakistan and will redouble my efforts in advance of England's autumn 2022 tour. My thanks to all at the PCB who have worked so hard in support of that."
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pakistan-vs-england-tour-cancellation-ecb-decision-not-of-government-says-british-high-commissioner-1278923 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pakistan-vs-england-tour-cancellation-ecb-decision-not-of-government-says-british-high-commissioner-1278923)
-
So, this was England players who decided to ditch the 4-day tour to Pak so they could play in IPL. Team India players did the same thing to England re: Test-5 so they could play in IPL. This is just piss poor form!
I wonder what really happened with NZ govt. behind the scenes. What was their source of "intelligence" that was more intelligent than govt. of England?
-
So, this was England players who decided to ditch the 4-day tour to Pak so they could play in IPL. Team India players did the same thing to England re: Test-5 so they could play in IPL. This is just piss poor form!
I wonder what really happened with NZ govt. behind the scenes. What was their source of "intelligence" that was more intelligent than govt. of England?
Or perhaps it was a specific threat against the NZ team and not the England side. That's the problem with speculating completely blindly about high level security information, none of us have even the slightest clue.
If security wasn't a concern then it's very disappointing that England have decided this late in the day not to bother visiting Pakistan.
-
Or perhaps it was a specific threat against the NZ team and not the England side.
Then, they should share that information and cooperate in an investigation. I can tell you by just reading newspapers that their situation is a bit far removed from "geo-politics". Just guessing. :D
On the other hand, if specificity was indeed a factor and it was a personal threat, then that is another story and they should share the information.
-
Why would they share high level security information with the general public? How do you know that doing so wouldn't prevent them from getting information on future threats? Not sure that blind speculation is the least bit helpful when you're talking about potential threats to people's lives as compared to a few games of cricket.
-
Why would they share high level security information with the general public? How do you know that doing so wouldn't prevent them from getting information on future threats? Not sure that blind speculation is the least bit helpful when you're talking about potential threats to people's lives as compared to a few games of cricket.
I was referring to your position of "specific" which could mean something much more specific as in personal.
Regarding future and how "sharing information" could somehow derail the future, that excuse has been used a LOT to hide wrong doing. This is a separate discussion but I can cite dozen of news articles and studies that that show hiding information had led to more wrong doing than sharing it.
-
Or perhaps it was a specific threat against the NZ team and not the England side. That's the problem with speculating completely blindly about high level security information, none of us have even the slightest clue.
If security wasn't a concern then it's very disappointing that England have decided this late in the day not to bother visiting Pakistan.
Speculation of course but i find it hard to believe that the NZ team were the targets of specific threats and ours weren't. If you're looking to make a statement i have to think the English team would be a bigger scalp, horrible as that is to say. Even the IPL line of thinking doesn't make sense. You can count on one hand the number of players in the IPL from our squad, the ECB could easily put together a 4 day touring party.
-
I was referring to your position of "specific" which could mean something much more specific as in personal.
Regarding future and how "sharing information" could somehow derail the future, that excuse has been used a LOT to hide wrong doing. This is a separate discussion but I can cite dozen of news articles and studies that that show hiding information had led to more wrong doing than sharing it.
Perhaps the New Zealand team should share with you the exact threat made to them in the interests of every bit of security information being shared as the way forward.
Perhaps you can then also share the liability costs and responsibility involved.
Providing your sitting on a personal fortune of in excess of 20 million it should be no problem.
Why don’t you contact the New Zealand and England cricket boards and suggest it.
-
Perhaps you can then also share the liability costs and responsibility involved.
What about the liability cost and responsibility involved to PCB and nation of cricket fans? What about future tours and costs of those tours?
You sitting on your personal fortune of 20 pounds have no problem passing judgement on one side. Why don't you contact PCB and their fans and their govt. and tell them that they don't deserve to know the truth.
Basically, your attitude is the perfect example of the elitism that PCB is complaining about.
-
Then, they should share that information and cooperate in an investigation. I can tell you by just reading newspapers that their situation is a bit far removed from "geo-politics". Just guessing. :D
On the other hand, if specificity was indeed a factor and it was a personal threat, then that is another story and they should share the information.
You're (No Swearing Please) mad if you think security should be 'shared'. Jesus, you'd kill people. clown
-
I was referring to your position of "specific" which could mean something much more specific as in personal.
Regarding future and how "sharing information" could somehow derail the future, that excuse has been used a LOT to hide wrong doing. This is a separate discussion but I can cite dozen of news articles and studies that that show hiding information had led to more wrong doing than sharing it.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You really don't live in the real world
-
Perhaps the New Zealand team should share with you the exact threat made to them in the interests of every bit of security information being shared as the way forward.
Perhaps you can then also share the liability costs and responsibility involved.
Providing your sitting on a personal fortune of in excess of 20 million it should be no problem.
Why don’t you contact the New Zealand and England cricket boards and suggest it.
Id love to know how you've attributed a liability cost to publishing a threat made against the NZ team who are know back in Aukland. If you're going to say there are security concerns that result in the cancelling of the tour, the least you can do is state the nature of those concerns once the team is safe.
-
you contact PCB and their fans and their govt. and tell them that they don't deserve to know the truth.
again, zero idea of the real world. Stick to Cricket fella
-
You're (No Swearing Please) mad if you think security should be 'shared'. Jesus, you'd kill people. clown
Depends on what the intelligence is doesn't it. Once the threat is not active anymore i struggle to see the issue. If, as im assuming is the case if NZ are to be believed, they received a threat from an affiliate of a certain noisy neighbour who just regained control of a country, once they are safe is there a significant risk in publicising that fact. On the subject of shared, if thats the case why are the British government saying they have no such intel and are not changing travel recommendations to Pakistan.
-
You have no idea what you're talking about. You really don't live in the real world
You are implying: a.) You have an idea. b.) You live in the "real world".
Three fingers are pointing right back at you.
-
again, zero idea of the real world. Stick to Cricket fella
Based on your naive views of the world, I'd say you don't have much to share about the "real world".
If you do, let me know. I am interested.
-
You're (No Swearing Please) mad if you think security should be 'shared'. Jesus, you'd kill people. clown
Why does truth or fear of truth drive people like you over the edge? What are you afraid of?
Got something to share? Tell me.
-
Why does truth or fear of truth drive people like you over the edge? What are you afraid of?
Got something to share? Tell me.
you're an idiot
-
you're an idiot
That's all you got? Name calling?
No coherent argument? Facts?
Tell us why the England high commisioner didn't cancel the trip but ECB did? Didn't they share the same information? No secrecy act will be violated in answering that question.
I can tell that you are very important in the hierarchy of the british establishment. :D
-
We’re deviating quite a bit. The NZ team was ready to play, till their government got concerned about a very specific threat. No point speculating what that was. I can only assume it was more serious than the threatening emails that some people got. Can’t blame NZ for backing out in the circumstances.
The ecb on the other hand, was not aware of any threat. The UK govt was fine with the tour, as were the security consultants. So it was completely unjustified and a total betrayal of promises made to the pcb. Full credit to English journalists - all unanimously coming down hard on the duplicity of the ECB.
-
No secrecy act will be violated in answering that question.
well done, you're aware that there is a significant act that covers such things. Then You'll be smart enough to know that making such things available to anyone outside of such channels is clearly stupid and leads to bad things.
-
again, zero idea of the real world. Stick to Cricket fella
Your biases have come out quite clearly in this thread. Take your vitriol and name calling elsewhere please.
-
well done, you're aware that there is a significant act that covers such things. Then You'll be smart enough to know that making such things available to anyone outside of such channels is clearly stupid and leads to bad things.
Your reading comprehension needs a lot of remedial help. PTSD could be another.
I asked a basic question and you didn't know how to answer. Now you are throwing around some "big" ideas which you actually don't understand well enough.
You should take your own advice and stick to cricket "fella".
-
What about the liability cost and responsibility involved to PCB and nation of cricket fans? What about future tours and costs of those tours?
You sitting on your personal fortune of 20 pounds have no problem passing judgement on one side. Why don't you contact PCB and their fans and their govt. and tell them that they don't deserve to know the truth.
Basically, your attitude is the perfect example of the elitism that PCB is complaining about.
I don’t have anything to explain to any Pakistan fans or their board. The NZ team had a threat made against them and they left, England are left in the situation where they send a team after that happened or don’t send a team.
I’m glad the ECB pulled the team out so the decision is fine with me, you’re the one jumping up and down about some great conspiracy theory.
As I’ve said many times on this forum Pakistan is important to world cricket.
I hope these games at some point can be scheduled for the UAE, where England have played before and Pakistan made their base for a while.
-
I don’t have anything to explain to any Pakistan fans or their board. The NZ team had a threat made against them and they left, England are left in the situation where they send a team after that happened or don’t send a team.
I’m glad the ECB pulled the team out so the decision is fine with me, you’re the one jumping up and down about some great conspiracy theory.
Then, you need to get outside the 50 mile radius that you live in.
We live in an overly inter-connected world. What one boards says and does affects other countries & their boards: Either weigh all the options before opening your mouth and letting poop fly out or hire better people. Monetary losses are just one factor; future tours are at risk now. Safety first . It is perfectly understandable but NZ needs to come clean and share what they know because they had bad info. Says ENG govt. Full stop!
-
Then, you need to get outside the 50 mile radius that you live in.
We live in an overly inter-connected world. What one boards says and does affects other countries & their boards: Either weigh all the options before opening your mouth and letting poop fly out or hire better people. Monetary losses are just one factor; future tours are at risk now. Safety first . It is perfectly understandable but NZ needs to come clean and share what they know because they had bad info. Says ENG govt. Full stop!
I have no idea why you believe the threat to the NZ team was bad info. Why you think you know better is baffling.
At the end of the day you can think whatever you like. We all have our opinions.
But I believe the NZ press announcements that made their decision for them.
-
I have no idea why you believe the threat to the NZ team was bad info. Why you think you know better is baffling.
Lets wait for our resident security expert to chime in before I answer this. :D
-
I'm sure in time the NZ govt will release the reasons behind the cancellation. I don't think they need to release this straight away just so the fans and ex players etc who have behaved appallingly can sleep a bit easier. The "NZ" players would've been gutted that the tour was canned. These players were not our top string so would have been very keen to use this opportunity. If there was a credible threat then get them out.
Pakistan will come back from this. What they would never come back from is if a cricketer was seriously injured or worse while touring there.
In terms of the England decision. Imagine if you were in that side and the team before you left in an instant because of a security threat. Imagine the talk on the players Whatsapp group and the players WAGS talking to the players. Surely this is why they didn't go even with all the other excuses floating around.
I think this thread has failed to think about the human side to sport and the impact fear plays on players and their families.
-
I'm sure in time the NZ govt will release the reasons behind the cancellation. I don't think they need to release this straight away just so the fans and ex players etc who have behaved appallingly can sleep a bit easier. The "NZ" players would've been gutted that the tour was canned. These players were not our top string so would have been very keen to use this opportunity. If there was a credible threat then get them out.
Pakistan will come back from this. What they would never come back from is if a cricketer was seriously injured or worse while touring there.
In terms of the England decision. Imagine if you were in that side and the team before you left in an instant because of a security threat. Imagine the talk on the players Whatsapp group and the players WAGS talking to the players. Surely this is why they didn't go even with all the other excuses floating around.
I think this thread has failed to think about the human side to sport and the impact fear plays on players and their families.
Agree re NZ. They had no choice given the circumstances.
But mate, the ECB decision was appalling and can never be justified. The UK government made a special effort to clarify that this was the ECBs decision alone, and not based on any security concerns. Player WAGs would also have been extremely uneasy about their partners travelling to a country ravaged with covid (UK), and yet the Pakistani team travelled and saved the ECBs millions of pounds. Let’s call a spade a spade (like all the England journalists have, to their credit), and recognize foul play when we see it.
-
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe NZ & ENG utilise the same security agency. So if there was genuine intelligence suggesting an imminent threat to NZ, you'd be a fool to ignore that for the next inbound 'western' touring side.
-
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe NZ & ENG utilise the same security agency. So if there was genuine intelligence suggesting an imminent threat to NZ, you'd be a fool to ignore that for the next inbound 'western' touring side.
You’d have to take this up with the UK govt /
high commission who’ve made a special effort to explain that security was not a concern. The ecb statement doesn’t mention it either.
-
The UK govt would have no involvement really, other than 'is it' safe for UK nationals to travel to PAK. This whole debacle is to do with private firms employed by cricket boards..
-
Agree re NZ. They had no choice given the circumstances.
But mate, the ECB decision was appalling and can never be justified. The UK government made a special effort to clarify that this was the ECBs decision alone, and not based on any security concerns. Player WAGs would also have been extremely uneasy about their partners travelling to a country ravaged with covid (UK), and yet the Pakistani team travelled and saved the ECBs millions of pounds. Let’s call a spade a spade (like all the England journalists have, to their credit), and recognize foul play when we see it.
Yeah I don't disagree with what you are saying re ECB I'm just saying that I believe the players and partners plus team management would have had a huge say in the decision. The ECB haven't said this and have instead said it was due to other factors.
Your point is valid re teams touring the UK with covid around however most people would risk Covid over Terrorism Id imagine.