Starting your innings against spinners
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Kulli

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2012, 02:21:54 PM »

As an offspinner (and one who doesn't really bat at all), I least like short batsmen who sweep well, as the last thing you want when you have a new batsman at the crease is to be immediatly put on the defensive, and I find that often that happen when someone looks to sweep me right from the start of their innings. I guess the same applies with anyone who moves their feet right from ball one, but that somehow leaves me with more optimism that I'll still get them early than someone who sweeps, and that's despite me being a bowler who mainly relies on bounce (I'm 6'2) and variations in pace than real big spin.
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ajmw89

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2012, 02:23:43 PM »

I find if I sweep nowadays, it's premeditated, as coming down from 6'2" when you've got a dodgy knee is quite difficult to do on the fly...

tushar sehgal

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2012, 02:24:32 PM »

I've never liked sweeping - I figure for a tall batsman you spend so long getting down to ground level that you really do have to time everything absolutely perfectly to have any chance of getting the ball in the middle of the bat - and then only for a single or perhaps two.  Nick is right that the cut is a better percentage shot - especially if the ball is going away from you - and I'd add to that the ability to get right back in the crease to work a good length ball with an almost dead bat.

I agree, even though I don't sweep anymore onething to keep in mind is when sweeping make sure your bat is coming down from up-high instead of going from low to high...keep the ball on the ground and reduce the chance of top edging...
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uknsaunders

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2012, 02:33:33 PM »

I find if I sweep nowadays, it's premeditated, as coming down from 6'2" when you've got a dodgy knee is quite difficult to do on the fly...

When I sweep I look at the line first and then the length second. Outside off or leg is fair game. The slog sweep from off normally requires an offie tweaking it a bit and you must get the front pad outside off. Sweeping against the spin outside off is too risky. I'll sweep anything outside leg though. Biggest problem with the sweep is people over hitting it. Get a bit of bat on it and just help it around the corner.
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uknsaunders

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2012, 02:35:19 PM »

I remember reading Duncan Fletcher's book where we said much of playing spin was angles and present the bat face to that angle, I'll see if I can dig it out.
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Manormanic

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2012, 02:44:40 PM »

oh, if you are going to sweep, you have to think very carefully about where you are trying to put the ball; if there is a man at 45 especially, you need to think about which side of him you are wanting to put the ball. 

Thing is, I'm still not convinced that its a percentage shot for most players, at least not ordinary ones.
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uknsaunders

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2012, 02:51:51 PM »

Cricket commentators are often heard chastising batsmen for playing against the spin. This is always seen as dangerous and inadvisable: the right-handed batsman, for example, is encouraged to play the ball turning in from off onto the leg-side. Hitting such a delivery back to off is to court danger. And pity the unfortunate batsman who gets out flouting this precept.
To play against the spin is to violate cricketing orthodoxy. Commentators and analysts often look askance at batsmen playing an off-break to cover and coaches are often seen berating players for playing in such a manner. Pitchvision.com is a highly regarded website, offering useful tips on cricket, and it features elite players giving instructions on technique. It dispensed this bit of counsel:
If the ball is turning in (off spin to a right handed batsman); the best areas to score are between mid off and midwicket. If you keep an open body position with your hips towards the target area the swing of the bat can be straight. It’s safe because you are accounting for the ball turning back into you (playing with the spin)…Driving wide on the offside is more dangerous because you are playing against the spin.
It then goes on to say that the best scoring areas for deliveries turning from leg is between straight down the ground and cover.
Nothing out of the ordinary there. In fact, most cricket aficionados would agree. But if you really think about it, playing with the turn might just be more dangerous than playing against it. Consider this: to play the off-spinner to the leg side, in the direction that the ball is spinning is to play across the line. Hitting him back onto the offside, however, is to meet the ball with more of the face of the bat, and thus a safer way to play. In presenting the full face to the ball the batsman gives himself the greatest chance of finding the middle of the bat.
Brian Lara scored 688 runs at an average of 114.66 in a three-test series against Sri Lanka and Muttiah Muralitharan in 2001/2002. After the tour he recalled some advice he received from Sir Garfield Sobers. The great man suggested to Lara that he should play the offspinner “back to where he was coming from.” In other words, Sobers told him to play against the spin.
In his book Behind The Shades, Duncan Fletcher, current Indian cricket coach but then with England, tells of an incident, also in Sri Lanka, where Graham Thorpe was trying to decode Muralitharan. With Thorpe being a left-hander, Murali’s stock delivery would have been turning into him from leg.
 Thorpe’s initial theory, based on previous advice, was that he needed to close himself off in his stance and look to hit the ball through the off side, even though, as we said, Muralitharan was pitching the ball on or outside the leg stump. I told him to think about how he could hit the ball back where it spins from, hitting a straight ball with a straight bat. The answer was to open up his stance and hit the ball to the leg side with a straight bat. That might seem like hitting against the spin to the old-timers, but the laws of geometry will back me up to prove that he was, in fact, playing a straight ball. (p. 129)
The advice Fletcher gave Thorpe is therefore similar to that which Sobers offered to Lara. And if their success against the Sri Lankan master is anything to go by, the advice seemed to have been very helpful. What this means is that batsmen, over the years, might not have been well served by this long accepted method of negotiating spin bowling that has been passed down for generations. Perhaps, therefore, coaches should no longer frown when they observe batsmen playing against the spin.


Read more: http://www.sportskeeda.com/2012/09/11/why-it-is-better-to-play-against-the-spin/#ixzz2C79OGCFV
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19reading87

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2012, 03:23:34 PM »

I either get bogged down quickly or try and smash then into the next town as Nick will confirm!! Give me pace any day
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Simmy

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »

i am going to try and bring the sweep into my game this season as its one shot i never ever play and i feel like i could be good at it :)
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roco

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2012, 04:13:29 PM »

I find being tall with decent reach I use that to my advantage against spin as I get down track quickly or big stride and sweep as playing years of hockey the sweep feels natural after years of slap passes
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uknsaunders

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2012, 04:18:49 PM »

given your agricultural array of shots I'm surprised you can't sweep Simdog. As already mentioned, sweep down on the ball, don't over hit and play the shot based on % of acceptable risk (ie. not hitting the stumps). Suggest you start with a paddle sweep as it will teach you the basics of getting the shot right ie. technique not power. Move onto placement and hitting balls finer/square. Only then move onto the risky slog/lap/reverse sweep from outside off.
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Dan W

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2012, 04:21:29 PM »

I can sweep easily enough - it's the getting up afterwards I'm afraid of!
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trypewriter

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2012, 04:58:39 PM »

the sweep feels natural

I agree with this, I sometimes just find myself doing it. Maybe if it's pre-meditated it's a bit 'iffy'?
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Manormanic

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2012, 05:00:51 PM »

was thinking just that - but going back to my earlier point, how many of us are supple enough that we have time to instinctively pick the ball and sweep it?
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uknsaunders

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2012, 05:08:13 PM »

me because I'm on the floor in the first place lol. I've found in the last few years that I "pick" the sweep on instinct. I don't get out it often and when I premeditate (normally in the nets for practise) it rarely comes off, so I play it naturally when the ball demands it.  In one game towards the end of the season I saw the leg side sweeper was at cowcorner and decided to sweep between 45 and square leg. I had a left arm over bowling without much spin. Even then I waited for the right ball. 2 or 3 sweeps/boundaries later the sweeper went behind square and I tried to hit straighter with a straight bat instead.
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