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[Bruiserboy]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but what has happened to Steven Finn people? I dont know what you thought but I was very hopeful that after a dip in form in the summer he may come roaring back in Aus with faster bouncier pitches available maybe suiting him more. Now he has gone through the entire tour without playing a match and there are rumours he has the yips.

Is this just part of him learning and developing his game at this level or is it down to the coaching staff and management around him?  Are his problems because he hasnt been given an opportunity and this has knocked his confidence or was he too much of a liability to even be given a run?

It seemed to me just looking on from afar that the wheels started to come off when the england coaching staff started to try to modify his action maybe to correct the issue of knocking the stumps in the delivery stride but possibly to attempt to turn him into a bowler that he isnt.

Feels a tad like the Jimmy Anderson experience all over again.

[ProCricketer1982]

Who knows. Just strikes me that the coaching staff and management are responsible for basically destroying a player and turning him into a water bottle carrier. Complete waste of time him being on the tour. Should have just made him play Sheffield shild or grade cricket if his form is that bad and just had him bowling proper overs not net overs.

Another example of this ECB and England management and coaching group failing

[iand123]

I think the ECB need to look at how they are managing these young players. If Finn was so out of of form or had technical issues why would they take him on the tour? I cant believe they only found this out when they got to Aus. I dont see the benefit of dragging a young player whos struggling around Australia to carry drinks. They did a similar thing with Bairstow and it damages their confidence.

Thats said i think Finn has a lot of work to do to correct said technical issues. He's gonna need a decent break from cricket and get back to basics

[Bruiserboy]

Who knows. Just strikes me that the coaching staff and management are responsible for basically destroying a player and turning him into a water bottle carrier. Complete waste of time him being on the tour. Should have just made him play Sheffield shild or grade cricket if his form is that bad and just had him bowling proper overs not net overs.

Another example of this ECB and England management and coaching group failing

Hmm, I am trying to resist blaming the management and coaching staff but with Trott going, then Swann retiring, the catastrophic form of the squad and now this Finn thing (which has been going on for some time), the evidence doesnt look good looking in from well outside.

[Bruiserboy]

I think the ECB need to look at how they are managing these young players. If Finn was so out of of form or had technical issues why would they take him on the tour? I cant believe they only found this out when they got to Aus. I dont see the benefit of dragging a young player whos struggling around Australia to carry drinks. They did a similar thing with Bairstow and it damages their confidence.

Thats said i think Finn has a lot of work to do to correct said technical issues. He's gonna need a decent break from cricket and get back to basics

At some point the younger players have to go on there and see if they have what it takes at this level and its bound to take a some time to learn but I agree, dont think they handled Root well either promoting him too early when he had made a decent start down the order and like i say above, seemed to me this decline with finn started last winter.

[TangoWhiskey]

Central contracts.

All of England's best prospects have been doing for years is carrying around water bottles. Look at the Aussies in this series, in between tests a lot of them were going back and playing in the Big Bash and I think a couple of them even played a Shield Game. You get better by playing games and for the likes of Bairstow, Finn, Ballance and whoever else, only netting for 3 years all over the world doesn't help their game as much as playing First Class games for county or overseas would.

[Bruiserboy]

Central contracts.

All of England's best prospects have been doing for years is carrying around water bottles. Look at the Aussies in this series, in between tests a lot of them were going back and playing in the Big Bash and I think a couple of them even played a Shield Game. You get better by playing games and for the likes of Bairstow, Finn, Ballance and whoever else, only netting for 3 years all over the world doesn't help their game as much as playing First Class games for county or overseas would.

Totally agree I am unsure that central contracts have been all good news especially for the younger players. Does it also make them too comfortable in their positions for the year once they get the contract (not that I think that is the issue with the younger players and Finn in particular).

[Manormanic]

As I wrote elsewhere, Yorkshire fans have griped about this as it happened to Dawson, Rashid, Wainwright, Silverwood and Bairstow, and the likes of Greame Onions and Monty Panesar have long been tagged along with little intention of them ever actually playing. 

[Bruiserboy]

As I wrote elsewhere, Yorkshire fans have griped about this as it happened to Dawson, Rashid, Wainwright, Silverwood and Bairstow, and the likes of Greame Onions and Monty Panesar have long been tagged along with little intention of them ever actually playing.

I never understood why Onions didnt get a good go last summer in english conditions given his form.

[Manormanic]

face didn't fit I suspect.

[Nickauger]

I suspect that the new no ball rule, bought in just for Finn has meant a serious need to remodel his action. And in doing so, I would think he's all over the place. THe management would have thought that it would be possible during the tour, after all Saker is a good bowling coach. I guess it just hasn't worked out!

[Bruiserboy]

I suspect that the new no ball rule, bought in just for Finn has meant a serious need to remodel his action. And in doing so, I would think he's all over the place. THe management would have thought that it would be possible during the tour, after all Saker is a good bowling coach. I guess it just hasn't worked out!

Yes that seemed to be the start of his decline, although the issue seemed to worsen I thought and become more frequent. Okay more of an issue with one dayers but was it maybe better to just to stick with his action then and accept the no balls surely?

Seemd to me they also tried to make him much quicker at the same time.

[Manormanic]

I think they tried too hard to remodel his action - which is never a good idea unless there is a clear injury related issue that mitigtaes in favour, as there would have been had England realised at an early stage how good a bowler Flintoff would become and changed his landing position as a result.  They would have been far better moving him across the crease by eight inches or so so that the collapsing knee would be less of a problem, but otherwise just letting the poor lad bowl.

[Bruiserboy]

I think they tried too hard to remodel his action - which is never a good idea unless there is a clear injury related issue that mitigtaes in favour, as there would have been had England realised at an early stage how good a bowler Flintoff would become and changed his landing position as a result.  They would have been far better moving him across the crease by eight inches or so so that the collapsing knee would be less of a problem, but otherwise just letting the poor lad bowl.

Maybe they thought moving him across the crease that would reduce some of his potency because he bowled so straight wicket to wicket but you cant have everything.

Certainly he did find some extra pace from somewhere but he seemed to lose his brain the same time!

[Red Ink Cricket]

the thing that i didnt understand is if his action was ok and not causing injury why the big remodel? yes he had an issue with kneeing the stumps but surely a slight adjustment in his angle of approach or where he lands should have been more than enough. he would potentially need to readjust his lines to suit the new angle/ landing spot but that should be pretty easy for a bowler of his class. he would have to do it during a match if the batsman was playing certain shots or field placings were forcing a certain line. It seems that too much of an issue has been made about it. its made him too concious of doing it again, so rather than concentrating on lines/lengths, he is too worried about kicking the stumps and has fallen apart. its a real shame as during his short career he has looked very good. I cant remember who it was against but in the one dayers bowling at 90+ mph and making batsman struggle.

Really hope he gets the confidence back.