England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #330 on: December 29, 2019, 05:47:28 PM »

Can we just bring back Andy Flower? He took no bs

What’s wrong with bringing in Nasser, athers, warne, ponting, sangakkara, mcgrath Etc.. some greats who modern players simply can’t ignore

Obviously the first two are far from greats !!
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rickjames

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #331 on: December 29, 2019, 05:55:32 PM »

Nasser's just an opinionated pundit. Sangakkara's the MCC president, and newly appointed. Ponting too busy with CA, dunno what you'd get from someone like McGrath. Probably not much.

#FlowerIn
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Manormanic

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #332 on: December 29, 2019, 05:56:02 PM »

We need a culture change. We need to stop pandering to the undropables.

We need a side that has a clear plan, clear leadership and eleven players who are somewhere close to being in form, and in their correct position.

In the current squad, we have no clear plan, limited leadership and a lot of undeniably talented players who are not in any kind of form. 

How to get from one to the other?

1.Sack Root.  We need Root the batsman more than we need Root the leader, and as captain he has gone from one of the top 3-4 players in the world to a bit of an also ran.  Stokes will bowl less and less as time goes on and, if not a tactical genius, is at least a leader of men.
2.Give players a decent run in the team.  Burns, Denly and Pope should all be picked consistently through the winter and the first series of the English Summer.  They've all done some silly things, but if they were the best available when picked, then they ought to be the best available still.
3.1 and 2 give us a clear idea of five of our top 6 - and I would give Sibley more time as the other.  Foakes should be playing as a specialist keeper so my third point would be a litmus test - Bairstow (and to a lesser extent Buttler) are quality players in awful form - they should be invited to choose between their IPL riches and 6 games in green conditions proving their first class credentials.
4. Then we come to the bowling.  If Stokes is only going to bowl 8-10 a day, which is where we are now (at best) then either Leach or Virdi needs to be there as a spinner who can block an end.  Archer should be allowed to bowl fast, attacking lines (but not consistently fast, short ones) and Curran bears a run in the team.  Anderson or Broad, not and.  Oh, and get the right Overton in the squad, please.
5. Learn from Vern.  Having a seamer who hits areas and moves it around is priceless.  The likes of Roland-Jones, Coad and Porter should be seriously considered.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 06:03:14 PM by Manormanic »
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InternalTraining

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #333 on: December 29, 2019, 06:02:20 PM »

Separate the Test team from ODI and T-20s. Unless a players shows the right aptitude for Test matches, he shouldn't be in the side. Denly, Burns, and S. Curran are good additions to the team. One of them should be looked at for the skipper's role. This Curran kid has fight in him.

I saw few of Butler's shots and as great a white ball player he is, he can't help himself. The way he got out was just bad!

Bring a new captain , Root is not captaincy material. Follow the blueprint that led England to the CWC2019 victory - a new Test captain that only plays Test cricket with a team mostly comprising Test players.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #334 on: December 29, 2019, 06:12:55 PM »

comprising Test players.

Problem.... the system is simply not producing test players... it’s producing white ball players
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FattusCattus

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #335 on: December 29, 2019, 06:30:05 PM »

We need a side that has a clear plan, clear leadership and eleven players who are somewhere close to being in form, and in their correct position.

In the current squad, we have no clear plan, limited leadership and a lot of undeniably talented players who are not in any kind of form. 

How to get from one to the other?

1.Sack Root.  We need Root the batsman more than we need Root the leader, and as captain he has gone from one of the top 3-4 players in the world to a bit of an also ran.  Stokes will bowl less and less as time goes on and, if not a tactical genius, is at least a leader of men.
2.Give players a decent run in the team.  Burns, Denly and Pope should all be picked consistently through the winter and the first series of the English Summer.  They've all done some silly things, but if they were the best available when picked, then they ought to be the best available still.
3.1 and 2 give us a clear idea of five of our top 6 - and I would give Sibley more time as the other.  Foakes should be playing as a specialist keeper so my third point would be a litmus test - Bairstow (and to a lesser extent Buttler) are quality players in awful form - they should be invited to choose between their IPL riches and 6 games in green conditions proving their first class credentials.
4. Then we come to the bowling.  If Stokes is only going to bowl 8-10 a day, which is where we are now (at best) then either Leach or Virdi needs to be there as a spinner who can block an end.  Archer should be allowed to bowl fast, attacking lines (but not consistently fast, short ones) and Curran bears a run in the team.  Anderson or Broad, not and.  Oh, and get the right Overton in the squad, please.
5. Learn from Vern.  Having a seamer who hits areas and moves it around is priceless.  The likes of Roland-Jones, Coad and Porter should be seriously considered.

Is there an echo in here - I knew I was a genius?
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FattusCattus

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #336 on: December 29, 2019, 06:36:25 PM »

Right, who's sending the last 6 or 7 posts to the ECB? We know what we're talking about!
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shadowlight

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #337 on: December 29, 2019, 08:02:10 PM »

Can we just bring back Andy Flower? He took no bs

Hmm, isn’t he the guy who allowed a bunch of players to control the dressing room and lost Ashes in Aus and blamed other folks.  Instead of resigning he ended up in charge of One of the academy where the current lot were sent for improvement.

Thanks but no thanks.

Edit: Anyone on the forum able to read lips?  Would love to find out what the heated discussion was about between Stokes and Broad.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:26:38 PM by shadowlight »
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FattusCattus

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #338 on: December 29, 2019, 08:22:26 PM »

I don't suppose anyone on Twitter would like to tweet the last 3 pages to George Dobell at Cricinfo.

He might actually mention the nation's feelings to someone important, or the feelings of the fans might get a bit of press!!
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #339 on: December 29, 2019, 08:39:00 PM »

I don't suppose anyone on Twitter would like to tweet the last 3 pages to George Dobell at Cricinfo.

He might actually mention the nation's feelings to someone important, or the feelings of the fans might get a bit of press!!

He’s too close to the ECB and players to be critical.
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Buzz

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #340 on: December 29, 2019, 08:55:18 PM »

Dobell is the one journalist who says it as it is.
He has been scathing.
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FattusCattus

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #341 on: December 29, 2019, 08:56:54 PM »

Are you sure Eeyore?  He's been pretty damn critical in the past - not so much of individual players, but certainly of coaching strategy and selection.
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FattusCattus

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #342 on: December 29, 2019, 08:57:46 PM »

Dobell is the one journalist who says it as it is.
He has been scathing.

Hear, hear Buzzard - he's no ECB puppet
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rickjames

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #343 on: December 29, 2019, 09:27:05 PM »

I was gonna say he in the middle of a libel thing against the ECB
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InternalTraining

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Re: England Tour of South Africa, Test ODI and T20
« Reply #344 on: December 29, 2019, 10:10:56 PM »

Problem.... the system is simply not producing test players... it’s producing white ball players

System is encouraging and facilitating white ball players but I am sure there is red ball talent out there. Not everyone can play high-strike-rate cricket, there must be patient, slow and boring players out there who need a separate lane. Separate teams, separate captains.

PS: It is not just an England problem. Plenty of other cricketing nations have the same issue.
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