Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170226 times)

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #1290 on:** February 26, 2021, 10:55:54 AM »

Quote from: mo_town on February 26, 2021, 10:48:45 AM

Root wasnt turning it miles. The only good delivery he bowled was the one to Washington Sundar. Rest were balls that went straight thru or were poor shots from lower order batsmen.

I�m not sure you even watched the game after your response.

But...

Just read this article - and it should enlighten you - https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/ahmedabad-pitch-rated-poor-heres-what-rules-say-icc?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3yGzhuLJ6eWNoEJ5NcfCxuCWQ1_xnnXKODHodRVTKbA_iT9bkD1uKDCkc#Echobox=1614334552

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1291 on:** February 26, 2021, 11:45:54 AM »

Quote from: ProCricketer1982 on February 26, 2021, 10:23:44 AM

A result was only possible as India batted so spectacularly badly first innings (usually it's 500 plays 500 remember in India). It had bore draw written all over it otherwise.

I�ve just flicked back through India�s home results since 2012 and there has been one game where the team batting 4th wasn�t at least 5 down (and it was as rain affected as it gets) - struggling to see the problem there.

PS Worth doing this for some of the more vocal critics to see how rarely India have even come close to losing during this period

mo_town · « **Reply #1292 on:** February 26, 2021, 12:03:42 PM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on February 26, 2021, 10:55:54 AM

I�m not sure you even watched the game after your response.

But...

Just read this article - and it should enlighten you - https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/ahmedabad-pitch-rated-poor-heres-what-rules-say-icc?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3yGzhuLJ6eWNoEJ5NcfCxuCWQ1_xnnXKODHodRVTKbA_iT9bkD1uKDCkc#Echobox=1614334552

Those arguments work well when the pitch starts to break up too early like it did in the Mumbai test vs Australia where Clarke got the 6-fer. If batsmen are unable to score runs on a tough pitch, it doesnt mean that the pitch is deemed bad. The wording in that wisden article made me laugh. �A Poor pitch is one that does not allow an even contest between bat and ball,� it says, �either by favouring the batters too much, and not giving the bowlers (seam and spin) from either team sufficient opportunity to take wickets, or by favouring the bowlers too much (seam or spin), and not giving the batters from either team the opportunity to make runs.

How many batsmen actually showed the patience to play a blockathon? The only response modern batsmen know when facing a tough pitch is to hit out/play unorthodox shots. I guess DRS is partly to blame for this since the batsmen cant really push their pads out to block out bowlers anymore. But there are ways to negotiate it. I did see the match and I do know that 21 out of the 30 dismissals were of straight balls which did not turn. Its just poor application from both sides.
The fact is that apart from Root no other batsman in this Eng land side is capable of playing on pitches that assist spin; which is ok as it is part of the learning curve. But that doesnt mean you start blasting the pitch when batsmen fail miserably.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #1293 on:** February 26, 2021, 12:27:14 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on February 26, 2021, 12:03:42 PM

Those arguments work well when the pitch starts to break up too early like it did in the Mumbai test vs Australia where Clarke got the 6-fer. If batsmen are unable to score runs on a tough pitch, it doesnt mean that the pitch is deemed bad. The wording in that wisden article made me laugh. �A Poor pitch is one that does not allow an even contest between bat and ball,� it says, �either by favouring the batters too much, and not giving the bowlers (seam and spin) from either team sufficient opportunity to take wickets, or by favouring the bowlers too much (seam or spin), and not giving the batters from either team the opportunity to make runs.

How many batsmen actually showed the patience to play a blockathon? The only response modern batsmen know when facing a tough pitch is to hit out/play unorthodox shots. I guess DRS is partly to blame for this since the batsmen cant really push their pads out to block out bowlers anymore. But there are ways to negotiate it. I did see the match and I do know that 21 out of the 30 dismissals were of straight balls which did not turn. Its just poor application from both sides.
The fact is that apart from Root no other batsman in this Eng land side is capable of playing on pitches that assist spin; which is ok as it is part of the learning curve. But that doesnt mean you start blasting the pitch when batsmen fail miserably.

The pitch had a crater of a foot mark after 25 overs! If that�s not �breaking down� I don�t know what is.

Yes England were abysmal. But you�re kidding yourself if you�re genuinely trying to say there was nothing wrong with this pitch.

Playing against high quality spin on a terrible pitch as this was - a �blockathon� is not feasible - survival is not a feasible batting approach, and the fact that you suggested that undermines your entire argument.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1294 on:** February 26, 2021, 01:07:09 PM »

The pitch was dire, lets put that one to bed. 99% of people can agree on that.

What we can't agree on is how poor these England batsmen (couldn't care less really about India) are generally as one week they are 'world class' because they get a feather bed to wack on and the next when it's hard they simply can't bat. The question is.. where are the test quality batsmen going to come from going forwards ?

We have one player who avg over 40.. that's the root of the problem. irrespective of the peeps who will try and sell the 'Stokes avg this over 12 months' or 'Buttler avg that over 12 months'.. the fact is, we have shed loads of 30 something batsmen which tells everyone they aren't unto test standard. How do you fix that or do we accept white ball has corrupted the game forever? in which case there is no point worrying about red ball anyway because there is not much point in it

alba caerulea · « **Reply #1295 on:** February 26, 2021, 01:09:47 PM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on February 26, 2021, 10:55:54 AM

I�m not sure you even watched the game after your response.

But...

Just read this article - and it should enlighten you - https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/ahmedabad-pitch-rated-poor-heres-what-rules-say-icc?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3yGzhuLJ6eWNoEJ5NcfCxuCWQ1_xnnXKODHodRVTKbA_iT9bkD1uKDCkc#Echobox=1614334552

Thanks for posting that

Going by that official description theres no way this pitch could not be rated as 'poor'

Excessive turn and unevenness of bounce on day 1. So hits the poor rating on 2 criteria.

Will anything be done about it is the question?

alba caerulea · « **Reply #1296 on:** February 26, 2021, 01:22:34 PM »

Quote from: ProCricketer1982 on February 26, 2021, 01:07:09 PM

The pitch was dire, lets put that one to bed. 99% of people can agree on that.

What we can't agree on is how poor these England batsmen (couldn't care less really about India) are generally as one week they are 'world class' because they get a feather bed to wack on and the next when it's hard they simply can't bat. The question is.. where are the test quality batsmen going to come from going forwards ?

We have one player who avg over 40.. that's the root of the problem. irrespective of the peeps who will try and sell the 'Stokes avg this over 12 months' or 'Buttler avg that over 12 months'.. the fact is, we have shed loads of 30 something batsmen which tells everyone they aren't unto test standard. How do you fix that or do we accept white ball has corrupted the game forever? in which case there is no point worrying about red ball anyway because there is not much point in it

Stokes over the last 2 years is averaging around 50, i think and is in the top 10 for batting in the world rankings. So its fair to say his performances of late HAVE been world class. People wouldnt be wrong to say that.

Whether we sit down at the end of his career and say he was a world class Test batsman or a batsman capable of world class knocks is a different question. Would you suggest leaving Stokes out because he averages below 40?

What I don't understand is your constant whinging and moaning about the same subject over and over again. Maybe watch something else if the evolution of cricket offends you?

Can I ask a serious question - what were your emotions when Stokes played that knock at Headingley in the Ashes? For most the greatest knock ever seen by an Englishman.

Because guess what - without limited overs cricket that knock wouldn't have been possible and England would have lost. If you enjoyed that knock you are a massive hypocrite. And if you didn't you are the strangest cricket 'fan' ever to live

TownGrazz · « **Reply #1297 on:** February 26, 2021, 02:17:08 PM »

Why I know player will enjoy being rested or rotated how slightly relieved do you think Jos Butler is right now.

Got to bat and keep on the most benign wicket of the series and left with a 1-0 lead and his reputation pretty much intact if not slightly elevated in terms of his wicketkeeping. Talk about good timing!

six and out · « **Reply #1298 on:** February 26, 2021, 02:36:28 PM »

Jeetan Patel just been hired Full Time as Spin Bowling coach. The 1st time we have had a full time on going spin bowling coach.

AJ2014 · « **Reply #1299 on:** February 26, 2021, 03:40:02 PM »

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/joe-root-england-india-ahmedabad-pitch-b1807833.html

ppccopener · « **Reply #1300 on:** February 26, 2021, 04:12:00 PM »

Quote from: six and out on February 26, 2021, 02:36:28 PM

Jeetan Patel just been hired Full Time as Spin Bowling coach. The 1st time we have had a full time on going spin bowling coach.

If we are going to have this series up there in importance with the Ashes...which we should...then this is a step in the right direction.
We only had Leach really plus a bit of Root to work with in the third test.

But the problem of developing spin in the County Championship remains a problem

InternalTraining · « **Reply #1301 on:** February 26, 2021, 04:24:38 PM »

Quote from: Kez on February 26, 2021, 10:23:18 AM

Quote from: InternalTraining on February 25, 2021, 11:38:51 PM
Time to have ICC oversight and certification of all Test pitches before the match starts.

If this continues, Test cricket will be back to under-arm bowling.
The match referee and umpires do check the pitch before the games...
Was covering a ODI at Pune and had to wait for the officials to be happy with the wicket before the groundsman would mark it up. He had three pitches ready to choose from.
He then got caught on camera talking about how the pitch was a road and would be 330+ wicket.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41753622

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

So, either the match referee didn't do his job or the ball was made of depleted uranium and it messed up the pitch in a window of 2 days?

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #1302 on:** February 26, 2021, 05:22:36 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on February 26, 2021, 04:12:00 PM

But the problem of developing spin in the County Championship remains a problem

As does the problem as developing batsmen who can occupy the cease for long periods of time. But we're not allowed to talk about either.

Just keep shouting out new names and hope the problem will go away.

six and out · « **Reply #1303 on:** February 26, 2021, 05:44:24 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 26, 2021, 05:22:36 PM

As does the problem as developing batsmen who can occupy the cease for long periods of time. But we're not allowed to talk about either.

Just keep shouting out new names and hope the problem will go away.

It was interesting listening to the Wisden Podcast last night, they said that a lot of the Counties believe that the new 3 group system will encourage the Counties to play spinners and young players as there is less emphasis on promotion and relegation like the old CC, so less financial benefits at stake.

blindowl · « **Reply #1304 on:** February 26, 2021, 05:48:26 PM »

Quote from: TownGrazz on February 26, 2021, 02:17:08 PM

Why I know player will enjoy being rested or rotated how slightly relieved do you think Jos Butler is right now.

Got to bat and keep on the most benign wicket of the series and left with a 1-0 lead and his reputation pretty much intact if not slightly elevated in terms of his wicketkeeping. Talk about good timing!

Interesting viewpoint, I fully accept it but I was actually thinking the exact opposite. For me, Foakes' glovework looked outstanding every time I turned the cricket on (to be fair I did not watch all of the matches so I may have missed some howlers?). I would be nailing foakes name to the teamsheet for the foreseeable. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a keeper standing up to a frontline English seamer like he did with broad (Jack Russell maybe?).

Maybe time to try the old fashioned approach of the best 5 batters, the best 5 bowlers and a proper keeper.

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170226 times)

LEACHY48

Re: ENG vs IND series

Mtown Don

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mo_town

Re: ENG vs IND series

LEACHY48

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ProCricketer1982

Re: ENG vs IND series

alba caerulea

Re: ENG vs IND series

alba caerulea

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TownGrazz

Re: ENG vs IND series

six and out

Re: ENG vs IND series

AJ2014

Indian pitches

ppccopener

Re: ENG vs IND series

InternalTraining

Re: ENG vs IND series

Bats_Entertainment

Re: ENG vs IND series

six and out

Re: ENG vs IND series

blindowl

Re: ENG vs IND series